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IMO one of the biggest problems in the NBA and what plagues a lot of teams, including the Wiz, is the dreaded one and done rule for college players. Teams are forced to take players that still need multiple years to develop and have to decide on giving out big contracts to players based on potential. The NBA desperately needs a rule similar to the NFL or MLB to help teams build with younger players that are further along in their development.
How is the one and done rule hurting the Wizards? Specifically, which players? Wall, Beal, and Ariza are the current guys who fall in that category.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersh
Wall was more than deserving of the #1 pick and has shown he can flat out play in this league.
Ariza left college 8-9 years ago, so this statement doesn't really ring true for him now.
Beal...he's 7 games into his career. WAY too early to give up on him.
Look at all the teams running in place in this league. Teams are forced to have to pick between 19-20 year-old players that are so raw and they have a short window to develop them before having to decide whether to lock up huge amounts of cap room. The Wizards have had this problem when drafting over the last several years when not drafting #1. I'm actually a big supporter of Beal, advocated drafting him over everyone else and I won't give up in him any time soon. In fact, I think given his age, the criticisms of him in this thread have been comical. I just think it would be better for teams to know more about players than 30 games in college.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonArtest15
As far as Wall goes, he is a good player, but still can't shoot and still has a lot to prove. Yet, I think after this season he's up for his extension already. Is he a max player?
The one and done rule has not done a damn thing with NBA development.
Talent is talent. Some players are talented, some are not. David Aldridge had a great article over the summer where he actually analyzed HS, One and Done, 2 and done, 3 years, and 4 year players since KG entered the NBA in '95. The better NBA players actually come from the HS and one and done types.
The real problem with the Wizards, and a lot of teams, is that there are not that many great-franchise changing players in each draft. If you do not have a pick in the top 4, then you are messed up most years.
---------- Post added November-15th-2012 at 10:10 PM ----------
another 2 years of college would not make Kyrie Irving or Kevin Durant a better player, just like another year would not make Tyreke Evans or Demar Derozean better players.
Nick Young went to USC for 3 years, look at him.
http://i46.tinypic.com/34629fo.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by stevemcqueen1
http://i49.tinypic.com/347tqnq.png
I'm not talking about the superstars going 1st or 2nd every year. That's easy. I'm talking about the ones lower down in the lottery. Nick Young is a great example. The Wizards knew exactly what they were getting.Quote:
Originally Posted by AsiaticSkinsFan
You're right though. Clearly, the more 19 and 20 year old players in the league now is really helping the quality of basketball out there. Giving major deals to 23 and 24 year old players, locking up cap room, that's been great for the league and all the teams stuck in lottery hell.
I think Kyrie could absolutely have used a couple more years in college. He played what, 9 games at Duke? It was clear he had talent. But it's also clear he had no clue how to pass or play defense before getting to the NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by AsiaticSkinsFan
He could have gotten to the NBA a multidimensional player already if he'd had more time in college.
I think the one and done rule (or no rule prior to its instillation in 2006) has absolutely hurt the entire NBA and you see the problem in how awful the NBA is at developing its young talent.
It's a joke. The NBA has guaranteed contracts and it's got nowhere near the injury problem football does, but the sport does an abysmal job actualizing its talent. Busts are the norm, maybe two all stars come out of the average class, and only a small handful of players even make it long term. So many players never get better than what they were in college. Gems shine through and the cream rises to the top as always in anything. But the reason there are soooo few franchise players in BBall is, in part, because the league does an abominable job developing them.
LKB talked about it a while back. You don't get a chance to develop young talent like you do in other sports. It's a few short weeks of camp, then the season is underway and most of the practice time and coaching attention goes to the starters and game prep rather than teaching and development. You do your developing on your own in the summer. Even good vet players don't usually experiment with new things during the season.
Wall could have definitely used more time in college. He's the same player he was as a freshman at Kentucky.
---------- Post added November-15th-2012 at 10:54 PM ----------
:ols: :ols: :ols:Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckus
Well done sir!
:notworthy
John Wall is up for an extension in 2 years. That being said, I'm more interested in how he runs a team over his shooting %. Of course he has a lot to prove, but he's been a damn good player for us considering the circumstances. His #'s after 2 seasons are really good in comparison to other PGs around the league. Not saying you, but there are a lot of Wizards "fans" who don't appreciate how good he actually is. I had a rant a few pages back and one of those fans I mentioned said that Wall's body language on the bench was a tell-tale sign that he won't amount to much in the league. This is where we are as a fanbase and these are the type of arm-chair morons that think they know the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersh
Now, as far as the one and done players, Asiatic hit the nail on the head. Talent is talent. If you are NBA-ready, you can improve your deficiencies w/ on the job training through practices and games. Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, Mike Beasley, etc. had NOTHING to prove after their lone seasons at their respective schools. They were that good.
an great scorer, thats what they thought they were getting. Instead, dude is an efficient chucker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersh
And the quality of basketball is actually quite good, better than its been since the 80s, so I will say yes thanks.
College basketball isnt, and hasnt been, a place to develop players since the 80s, and I am starting to believe it never has been about that because all that happened in the old days is that guys didnt leave when they should have..
If the Toronto Raptors want to bid against themselves and give Demar Derozan a ridiculously big contract for little production, thats on them. Not on the players. Same is true for Ernie giving Blatche that ridiculous contract based off 2 months of inefficient play.
Fans love blaming players for general managers giving bad contracts.
so you believe Kyrie was going to learn how to play defense against sorry players at Duke? By learning how to take charges and flop? Hell to nah, no chance. He didnt need to play a game in college to be the player he is right now and becoming. If anything, he risked his career by playing that season at Duke because he also got that foot which people feared could have ended his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcqueen1
Allen Iverson won DPOY at Georgetown in the Big East. Iverson was never a good NBA defender. Steve Francis also won the award at UMD in the ACC. Francis was never a good defender. Nolan Smith is a garbage NBA defender despite spending 4 years at Duke (he not a good NBAplayer period). Its something that ESPN and NCAA coaches have propagated forever and its bunk.
here is the Aldridge article on one and done, etc. Its not the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcqueen1
http://www.nba.com/2012/news/feature...ate/index.html
Now there is a real problem in this country in basketball talent development and coaching. Its why the rest of the world really are catching up to his in bball. The problem is at a period well before the NBA. The college game is about winning, most of those coaches dont care about player development at all. It starts back before HS with youth coaches, and then it goes on with these AAU and travelling teams. IF you want to know why John Wall plays the same way he has since he was a freshman at UK, its because he has played that way all of his life and gotten away with it. Same with Russy, Rose, and the other combo guards out there in the NBA, its how they always played. Same is true with guys like Kobe, Durant, and Bron. Same is true for a guy like Blake Griffin, and many others as well. The link is broken well before college and thats why we are stuck with big men who dont have post games, guards who cant shoot and dribble with their heads down, or guards who cant dribble the ball at all. Thats the real problem. Until the coaching and development between 12-18 is fixed, players can stay 1 one year or 4 years in college, they gonna be what they are technically.
James Harden and Blake Griffin signed their extensions this off-season and they were drafted in 2009 while Wall was drafted in 2010. In July 2013, Wall is eligible for an extension unless something changed regarding contracts.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonArtest15
Again, you are saying that the guys that went 1st or 2nd in the draft are NBA ready. Some would disagree especially when it comes to how well rounded this players are on the court and their maturity off the court, but after the 1st and 2nd players in the draft, how many are NBA ready after one year in college. Yet, those are the players coming out and littering the league.
again, here is the Aldridge article on thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Hersh
http://www.nba.com/2012/news/feature...ate/index.html
its not the one and dones.
---------- Post added November-15th-2012 at 11:34 PM ----------
also, Wall is eligible for RFA in 2014. He can sign an extension next summer (which I expect) or he could say nah imma goto FA and the Wizards can match a contract offer for him in 2014.
Nick Young was not expected to come in and be some great shooting guard for the Wizards but the main reason we disagree is our views regarding the quality of basketball in the NBA these days. I don't think the quality of play in the NBA is very good at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by AsiaticSkinsFan
---------- Post added November-16th-2012 at 05:14 AM ----------
Thanks for the info on Wall's contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by AsiaticSkinsFan
As far as DA's article: Look at the guys he considers "professionals" or "stars." Most of the professionals we couldn't wait to get rid of when they were on the Wizards cause they sucked and the stars, while some put up stats on bad teams and others have earned big contracts, who has won anything on that list? Two guys really and neither were huge post season contributors when they won titles. Does Blatche add to the quality of the NBA?
Asiatic, I don't think it's just about a lack of skills like dribbling and post up offense that's the problem--although that certainly is a problem. I think it's also a lack of knowledge of the game being developed before players arrive in the NBA. Players are so much worse at playing off the ball now than they used to be. They just don't have familiarity with a very structured and coached game like they used to.
I think learning to move off the ball and learning to play team defense are definitely things you can pick up in college with a good coach and enough time.
It's basically a crash course in learning to run legit set plays on offense and defense for a lot of young players who aren't getting that good background before the college level (and truthfully, I doubt there are enough good coaches out there to develop players properly prior to college).
Things obviously change once you get to the NBA, college defense is fundamentally different just in the prevalence of zone. It's more about learning the fundamental concepts of the game and then putting them into practice in an environment you can build some confidence with.
I think Kyrie was hurt from playing so few college games in that regard. I think it's the biggest reason why his defense was so bad last year. He came in with pure talent and skills that he already had but hadn't begun to learn the game and so he had to start from square one against NBA competition.
And I don't think you can learn much about the game in just one year either. As LKB said a while back, what can even John Calipari teach you in 6 months?
I think guys like Magic and Jordan and Bird benefited from playing several years in college in how they were able to come into the league immediately as multi-dimensional players that just "got it." Duncan too, he stayed all four years.
Now it's like you come in and your just immediately in the fryer and good luck kid, you have to learn on the fly. The productive guys either have NBA ready skills they can go to in the mean time or they have some freak physical attributes they can produce off of until they learn to play. Only the really really smart ones who get good coaching get it figured out real quick.
Also, meant to say it before, I don't think it's fair to say that DRose, Kobe, Durant, and LeBron are the same players they've always been. I think they're examples of elite players who grew their games a lot throughout their careers. DRose learned to shoot. Kobe's added all kinds of eclectic pieces to his game. Durant is learning to pass and facilitate. LeBron learned to shoot and then learned a pretty tremendous inside game. These are the very best and smartest players of the league, so they're going to be outliers. They basically do it all on their own time though, hire their own coaches, no help from the NBA. They also train together and share notes with each other, teach each other the game. But it's like, sucks for you if you're not in that fraternity.
Imagine if Duncan went straight from HS to the NBA. He'd have a 20 year career in the NBA if his skills developed the same as it did in college.
Shooting is the easiest thing to improve. Repetition in the gym. Wall should be further a long by now. Just shoot, over, and over, and over.