Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
I was chatting with my landlord yesterday who's in the $250k+ tax bracket. He was railing against the Obama tax plan based on the fact that his taxes would go up by $15k or so.
In the same conversation he mentioned how much he typically saves in a year... enough to easily make a 20% down payment on a million dollar house at age 33. Good for him... I applaud his success and hope to get there myself.
But how much is that $15k really going to hurt him? Probably not a lot. With that $15k is he going to spend a lot of it to pump up the economy (he's pretty frugal apart from the expensive house and car)? Is he going to hire someone? No... It's going to sit there, either in a savings account or an investment account.
Now give 15 lower income people and extra $1k each... and all of that money gets spent buying things that they need/have wanted for a long time. That's MUCH more of an economic stimulus that having that same money sitting in an investment or savings account somewhere.
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Where does that end 1215?
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Larry
Did you, personally, spend over a year, here on ES, and in other places in your life, debating the various features and details of Obamacare, before it was passed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thiebear
I couldn't tell you, its a blur of "LIAR" and Payoffs. . . .
Well, let's see.
Here's two threads where you are the last poster, in January of 10. Three months before it was passed.
Reason.com: Democrats Cut Out Republicans, Public From Health Care Negotiations
WSJ.com:White House Brushes Off Health-Care Protests
Or here's a really good one, although I haven't gone through the whole thread to see if you, personally, posted in it:
Senate approves health care reform bill
That one is from Christmas Eve, 2000. But that cannot possibly be, could it? After all, the proposal didn't even exist until March, 14 days before it was passed, right? How could the Senate possibly pass a piece of legislation, three months before it even existed.
Maybe they were using ES servers.
Or this one, also from December: LATIMES: Senate health debate hits snag over imported drugs.
Guess that one didn't happen, either, huh? Nope. Congress couldn't possibly have hit a snag over details in the plan in December, because there weren't any details in December. They didn't exist.
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Wow, you think it's wierd that the Senate passed the Senate version of Obamacare, three months before you claim it existed?
The House passed their version a month before that.
From Dec, 2009: The moment of truth? *HOUSE PASSES HEALTH CARE BILL*
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Or, wow. Here's a good one. From October of 09:
WP: CBO Says Senate Health Bill Would Reduce Federal Deficit
It's amazing. Those folks at the CBO can do a cost analysis of a bill, six whole months before the bill exists. (According to you.)
Here's another one from October: CNN: Optional public option enters Senate health care talks
The last poster in the thread seems to be somebody who hacked your account, expressing an opinion on how Obama feels about whether the plan should include single payer. But that can't possibly be, can it? After all, Obama didn't make any proposals or discuss any options until March, 14 days before he signed it. Right?
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I've got five more pages of ES search results, each page listing 20 threads that have the word "health" in their title. And that's just the pages covering 08 and 09.
But I think I've made my point.
Please feel free to keep pointing at one Nancy Pelosi sentence, in which she states that the normal procedure for Congress to pass all complicated legislation, is for both houses to pass not-quite-identical bills, and send the two bills to a special reconciliation committee, which then has the power to resolve minor differences between the two versions, and trying to claim that this one sentence somehow proves that over a year of negotiations and discussions and theatrics and politics never happened, and that the entire bill was done completely in secret, that in fact, it's still secret, even after it's been passed.
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
twa
Where does that end 1215?
Well, in your opinion, where should it begin?
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BRAVEONAWARPATH
Well, in your opinion, where should it begin?
Are you asking where taxes should begin or redistribution to stimulate the economy?
surely you are not suggesting both are not happening now
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
twa
Are you asking where taxes should begin or redistribution to stimulate the economy?
Where taxes should begin.
Just want your opinion.
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Larry
Well, let's see.
Here's two threads where you are the last poster, in January of 10. Three months before it was passed.
Lots of stuff: Start with this: Part of my quote.
One of the proposals being considered by the Finance Committee would encourage states to issue bonds to cover the costs of expanding Medicaid. Governors in both parties revolted, trumpeting their opposition in a conference call last week with Senator Max Baucus, the Montana Democrat who leads the committee.
[note - that is one proposal].
here's another post you mention:
Originally Posted by Thiebear
Alexey: How much will it cost a family of 4 that make 80k in DC area? (your from here/there)
Reply by Alexey: Nobody knows for sure, of course
I'm sure there are CBO's numbers about that available. It also depends on your current level of coverage. You may end up paying a bit more or a bit less. (I think premiums are expected to rise for 7% of population, but for better coverage)
OKAY: LARRY is correct there are a LOT of details in the Bill proposed but not yet passed. And Not all of them made it into the bill, and some did that we didn't know of.
And some are still being edited.
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skinz4Life12
Mittens doesn't want drone wars. He wants to put troops on the the ground in Iran
This is pure speculation which assumes that Mitt and the R's learned nothing from Iraq and Afghanistan about either 1) the nature of those wars, 2) the state of American public opinion or 3) our national debt.
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BRAVEONAWARPATH
Where taxes should begin.
Just want your opinion.
10% flat tax with a poverty level personal deduction
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skinsfan_1215
I was chatting with my landlord yesterday who's in the $250k+ tax bracket. He was railing against the Obama tax plan based on the fact that his taxes would go up by $15k or so.
In the same conversation he mentioned how much he typically saves in a year... enough to easily make a 20% down payment on a million dollar house at age 33. Good for him... I applaud his success and hope to get there myself.
But how much is that $15k really going to hurt him? Probably not a lot. With that $15k is he going to spend a lot of it to pump up the economy (he's pretty frugal apart from the expensive house and car)? Is he going to hire someone? No... It's going to sit there, either in a savings account or an investment account.
Now give 15 lower income people and extra $1k each... and all of that money gets spent buying things that they need/have wanted for a long time. That's MUCH more of an economic stimulus that having that same money sitting in an investment or savings account somewhere.
See, to me this is exactly "redistribution of wealth", and that is not right. He did earn his money, and if he wants it to sit in an account that is his business AND his right.
I have no problem in asking the wealthy to pay an equal rate, and i have no problem in letting their tax benefits expire.
The idea you're putting forth in this post is exacly the thing the right fears, and frankly, correctly. That's the "handout culture" they're trying to paint us a picture of already. No sense helping it along by actually espousing it.
Paying taxes is not about encouraging handouts, although that is the message the rich are trying to get people to swallow.
It's about everyone pulling their fair share, and doing what's best for the country.
But in writing things and believing things in that regard, you make their job to easy for them.
~BAng
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
twa
Where does that end 1215?
That is certainly a legitimate policy question. One that voters and politicians at all levels wrestle with.
Situation: drowning in debt. Need to reduce spending and boost revenues to reduce said debt. Is it OK to require those who have money to increase their share of the burden by X amount of dollars?
"where does it end" adds nothing to that discussion.
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wrong Direction
This is pure speculation which assumes that Mitt and the R's learned nothing from Iraq and Afghanistan about either 1) the nature of those wars, 2) the state of American public opinion or 3) our national debt.
Watch the video. It's not hard to speculate on Iran when you have Romney saying things like that
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BRAVEONAWARPATH
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
If Pew Research and Rasmussen were the closest polls in 2008: Romney is winning based on RealClearPolitics.
This is the opposite of the poll i looked at in September and said President Obama will win based on the trend then.
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thiebear
OKAY: LARRY is correct there are a LOT of details in the Bill proposed but not yet passed. And Not all of them made it into the bill, and some did that we didn't know of.
And some are still being edited.
Wow. An even bigger whopper.
Please, let us in on how a piece of legislation which was passed two years ago, is "still being edited".
I'd love to see the spin on that one.
Re: Romney/Ryan '12 Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JimboDaMan
That is certainly a legitimate policy question. One that voters and politicians at all levels wrestle with.
Situation: drowning in debt. Need to reduce spending and boost revenues to reduce said debt. Is it OK to require those who have money to increase their share of the burden by X amount of dollars?
"where does it end" adds nothing to that discussion.
It is a fundamental of the discussion when spending and debt continue with no end in sight and even a reduction in the growth of it raises objections as extreme.
Simply taking more to give to others to spend adds nothing, and will cause contraction.
