Re: Drafting Skill Position Player with 2nd round pick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
darrelgreenie
-Gore
I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.
I feel like chasing a skill position or 'playmaker' with the 2nd round pick would amount more to collecting talent then building a team.
I completely understand where you're coming from. I just see a situation where we have a lot of solid skill players, but no one that really commands attention from the defense. I just think that a special, versatile playmaker opens up the offense for everyone else and can ease the pressure that teams send at RGIII if his outlet has the ability to take it to the house. Right now, Denard is the only guy I see that fits that bill as a potential mid to late 2nd guy. As much as I like lead backs like Knile Davis and even Bell, I'd pass because I'm satisfied with our current trio. If Lattimore is on the board in the 2nd, take him.
Other than that, I think that RT and S are the biggest areas to address. I just think we've invested more and are more promising at S with Meriweather and Tanard as talented young vets that have shown they can be difference makers in the NFL, a solid smart vet in Madieu, and a couple of draft picks in Bernstine and Gomes. RT is more shaky to me with Polumbus, banged up Brown, and Compton as the options.
Like you said about judging Fred after two games, I'm not going to just turn on our defense which has been our team strength over the years. While our offense is putting up points, we get stagnant and we only really get big plays from shots downfield rather than yac (other than that Garcon slant). To compete for a championship, we need a great defense, but really have to be able to keep pace with these elite offenses like NE, GB, NO, NYG, Philly, etc. That's why I value that x factor that makes everyone else get a little less attention. RT is second because it protects RGIII and OTs are important in our scheme. The secondary is the least important unit in our defensive scheme, but special Polomalu type guys really raise the overall impact. So if we can grab a truly special safety, then I'm all for it. But in this draft class, there seems to be a lot of depth at safety, but not a lot of separation between the prospects.
Re: 2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MartinC
He must be a tough dude - he had to have fought his way through High School .....
He changed his last name to Rambo when in grade school. Originally his last name was Fudge.
Duke Williams looks like a legit playmaker. I wonder if we could move Hall to FS, draft Williams/Rambo and then get a good corner in FA. That, to me, seems like it would be a huge one year turnaround from where we are now.
Re: 2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GWinSkins83
Tavon Austin for scatback role. As in FS or Strong got to go with McDonald, Rambo, and Williams. I think we need a CB most though. Maybe we can get Talib and Chase can come in strong next year.
Tavon is interesting too, but really small. And I see him as more of a slot guy than someone who can line up in the backfield in the NFL. I really think we need someone who is a threat to run so that teams respect him as more than a catch threat when lined up in the backfield. I know Steve has concerns about Denard toting the rock, but he's 3 inches taller and 20+ lbs. heavier than Tavon. I could see Denard putting on another 5-10 lbs. and at 6', 207 lbs. would be solid enough to carry the ball consistently, but slim enough to not lose his elusiveness.
Re: 2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MartinC
He must be a tough dude - he had to have fought his way through High School .....
He also failed a drug test and is facing a 4 games suspension. That is his second offense, and he blamed marijuana brownies for the failed drug test :rolleyes:
"The senior plans to appeal. If it is denied, he could consider entering the NFL's supplemental draft." Link
Re: 2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FrFan
He also failed a drug test and is facing a 4 games suspension. That is his second offense, and he blamed marijuana brownies for the failed drug test :rolleyes:
"The senior plans to appeal. If it is denied, he could consider entering the NFL's supplemental draft."
Link
To be clear I'm not pushing this kid - never seen him play a down of football - I was just joking with Steve about his name ,,,,,
Re: 2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gorebd82
Tavon is interesting too, but really small. And I see him as more of a slot guy than someone who can line up in the backfield in the NFL. I really think we need someone who is a threat to run so that teams respect him as more than a catch threat when lined up in the backfield. I know Steve has concerns about Denard toting the rock, but he's 3 inches taller and 20+ lbs. heavier than Tavon. I could see Denard putting on another 5-10 lbs. and at 6', 207 lbs. would be solid enough to carry the ball consistently, but slim enough to not lose his elusiveness.
This is where I'm at. Austin is incredibly dynamic in the open field, but other than that, doesn't really provide anything that Aldrick Robinson isn't already on the roster to provide. Denard Robinson could be a ridiculous return man and threat out of the backfield, if our FO thinks he projects well.
Re: 2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FrFan
He also failed a drug test and is facing a 4 games suspension. That is his second offense, and he blamed marijuana brownies for the failed drug test :rolleyes:
"The senior plans to appeal. If it is denied, he could consider entering the NFL's supplemental draft."
Link
Avoid him like the plague...we have enough issues with players not smart enough to stay away from the weed. So his grand defense is..."I didnt smoke the weed, I ate it.." So the fact that it is illegal is irrelevant..pass. Not smart enough to get out of his own way and or to stay out of trouble.
Re: Drafting Skill Position Player with 2nd round pick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gorebd82
I completely understand where you're coming from. I just see a situation where we have a lot of solid skill players, but no one that really commands attention from the defense. I just think that a special, versatile playmaker opens up the offense for everyone else and can ease the pressure that teams send at RGIII if his outlet has the ability to take it to the house.
Again, our offense is in its infancy but because we have a playmaker at the most important position the offense is 4th in the NFL in yards and 1st in points.
We don't know what our offense could become or which players will emerge.
But drafting another skill position player for a top 5 offense that has several other areas on the team that could benefit from upgrade isn't the direction I want to go to build a team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gore
Other than that, I think that RT and S are the biggest areas to address. I just think we've invested more and are more promising at S with Meriweather and Tanard as talented young vets that have shown they can be difference makers in the NFL, a solid smart vet in Madieu, and a couple of draft picks in Bernstine and Gomes. RT is more shaky to me with Polumbus, banged up Brown, and Compton as the options.
Meriweather and Tanard Jackson are stopgaps or even worse progress stoppers.
I don't understand the optimism about a poor tackling safety who has been suspended multiple times and a freelancing safety that was released twice in the same season by teams that needed safety help.
Now I like Gomes he's showing some promise and Bernstine was my favorite draft pick but he trashed his knee and will basically be rookie all over again.
Gotta finish later but I want to address your last pp.
Re: 2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gorebd82
Tavon is interesting too, but really small. And I see him as more of a slot guy than someone who can line up in the backfield in the NFL. I really think we need someone who is a threat to run so that teams respect him as more than a catch threat when lined up in the backfield. I know Steve has concerns about Denard toting the rock, but he's 3 inches taller and 20+ lbs. heavier than Tavon. I could see Denard putting on another 5-10 lbs. and at 6', 207 lbs. would be solid enough to carry the ball consistently, but slim enough to not lose his elusiveness.
I'm sorry but Dennard Robinson in the 2nd or even 3rd round as a RB/WR would be an immense luxury pick for this team and one we can't afford. We have invested a massive amount in RGIII to be our play maker on offense and lets see what he can bring out of players like Garcon, Robinson, Morgan, Davis and Hankerson - not to mention the backs we already have. This team needs help at CB, S and RT before we start spending precious high picks on converting a QB to HB/WR however athletically gifted he may be. Just my opinion.
Re: 2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MartinC
To be clear I'm not pushing this kid - never seen him play a down of football - I was just joking with Steve about his name ,,,,,
Understood Martin, I was just passing infos about him. ;)
Re: Drafting Skill Position Player with 2nd round pick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gorebd82
To compete for a championship, we need a great defense, but really have to be able to keep pace with these elite offenses like NE, GB, NO, NYG, Philly, etc. That's why I value that x factor that makes everyone else get a little less attention. RT is second because it protects RGIII and OTs are important in our scheme. The secondary is the least important unit in our defensive scheme, but special Polomalu type guys really raise the overall impact. So if we can grab a truly special safety, then I'm all for it. But in this draft class, there seems to be a lot of depth at safety, but not a lot of separation between the prospects.
Those offenses you listed, NE, GB, and NYG don't really have scatback types that are major contributors. I can see you saying new england has tight end mismatches, but GB and NYG don't really have what I'd consider physical mismatch guys. And let's not forget that for all the success of Bush and Spiller in the 2 games this year, their offenses are still ranked 7th and 12th. Last year those offenses ranked 14th and 22nd, I expect neither of those two backs to keep up this pace.
There is one offensive player I would love to grab though. Dion Sims. A 6'5 285 pound tight end who can catch and runs under a 4.8? We're talking about a guy who outweighs gronkowski by 20 pounds. He would be nearly 40 pounds heavier than most linebackers covering him. Now that's a mismatch and seems like a legit safety valve. Plus he's got to be a better blocker than Davis, it would be hard for him not to be.
Personally I think our rb situation would be better with Helu back. He can catch out of the backfield and he's got enough wheels to break off large runs. That is why I think drafting an rb would be unnecessary. Having a shifty wr would help but I'm betting once Garcon is back in the lineup our wr won't look like nearly as much of a problem as it did this week. Most teams would have been just as screwed with their top wr out, we can't forget that.
Re: Drafting Skill Position Player with 2nd round pick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Laron Burgundy
Those offenses you listed, NE, GB, and NYG don't really have scatback types that are major contributors. I can see you saying new england has tight end mismatches, but GB and NYG don't really have what I'd consider physical mismatch guys. And let's not forget that for all the success of Bush and Spiller in the 2 games this year, their offenses are still ranked 7th and 12th. Last year those offenses ranked 14th and 22nd, I expect neither of those two backs to keep up this pace.
Just for the record, I think Finley counts as a mismatch for most teams at TE, and I would consider Woodhead a scatback type (and Faulk was before that).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Laron Burgundy
There is one offensive player I would love to grab though. Dion Sims. A 6'5 285 pound tight end who can catch and runs under a 4.8? We're talking about a guy who outweighs gronkowski by 20 pounds. He would be nearly 40 pounds heavier than most linebackers covering him. Now that's a mismatch and seems like a legit safety valve. Plus he's got to be a better blocker than Davis, it would be hard for him not to be.
Levine Toilolo. If you can get past the ridiculous name, he could be a great TE. Would probably depend on getting something ina trade for Davis before I could spend a 2nd on a TE, though.
Re: 2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SkinsCrushCowboys
Avoid him like the plague...we have enough issues with players not smart enough to stay away from the weed. So his grand defense is..."I didnt smoke the weed, I ate it.." So the fact that it is illegal is irrelevant..pass. Not smart enough to get out of his own way and or to stay out of trouble.
Because we obviously don't draft guys with checkered backgrounds.......
I dont want to bring the list of names up again, but if I have to I'll be more than happy to share the guys we drafted who have "Character" issues
Re: Drafting Skill Position Player with 2nd round pick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
darrelgreenie
Again, our offense is in its infancy but because we have a playmaker at the most important position the offense is 4th in the NFL in yards and 1st in points.
We don't know what our offense could become or which players will emerge.
But drafting another skill position player for a top 5 offense that has several other areas on the team that could benefit from upgrade isn't the direction I want to go to build a team.
I simply don't see our offense having the weapons to match other elite units. A versatile player like Denard can open up for everyone IMO and play with any personnel grouping. My interest is doing everything possible to help RGIII and as long as he's the only weapon that commands such high attention, teams will throw everything and attack him hard. I think that teams often get a dual threat QB and then don't given them enough dynamic weapons. I'm just not opposed to us cementing this as the top offense in the league.
Quote:
Meriweather and Tanard Jackson are stopgaps or even worse progress stoppers.
I don't understand the optimism about a poor tackling safety who has been suspended multiple times and a freelancing safety that was released twice in the same season by teams that needed safety help.
Now I like Gomes he's showing some promise and Bernstine was my favorite draft pick but he trashed his knee and will basically be rookie all over again.
Gotta finish later but I want to address your last pp.
I'm not sure how there can be so much comfort in not upgrading offensive positions where we've pretty much established what we have, but are so quick to say we need to upgrade safety when we haven't seen how Meriweather (2X Pro Bowler), Tanard, or Bernstine fit this system. Not one of them has played a snap for us yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MartinC
I'm sorry but Dennard Robinson in the 2nd or even 3rd round as a RB/WR would be an immense luxury pick for this team and one we can't afford. We have invested a massive amount in RGIII to be our play maker on offense and lets see what he can bring out of players like Garcon, Robinson, Morgan, Davis and Hankerson - not to mention the backs we already have. This team needs help at CB, S and RT before we start spending precious high picks on converting a QB to HB/WR however athletically gifted he may be. Just my opinion.
I think that we just have different perceptions. I just made my point about our safeties that are being judged without playing a snap plus this draft class is deep at the position, our CBs are at least 3 deep with quality players with us as serious contenders to land Talib, and I'd be happy with us drafting a RT but I think we have a better chance of landing a quality tackle in the 3rd than an explosive playmaker. I'd like to address all four areas and I think a group of Talib, Denard, OT in the 3rd, and S in the 4th could get us there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Laron Burgundy
Those offenses you listed, NE, GB, and NYG don't really have scatback types that are major contributors. I can see you saying new england has tight end mismatches, but GB and NYG don't really have what I'd consider physical mismatch guys. And let's not forget that for all the success of Bush and Spiller in the 2 games this year, their offenses are still ranked 7th and 12th. Last year those offenses ranked 14th and 22nd, I expect neither of those two backs to keep up this pace..
NE has relied on Faulk as a scat back for years and then spent a 2nd on Vereen last year to replace him (who was outplaying Ridley in camp this summer before getting nicked up). GB spent a 2nd on Randall Cobb. NYG has a home run guy in Bradshaw and spent a 1st on David Wilson. NO has Sproles. Philly has a speedy guy as their lead back in McCoy. Those guys can all take a screen pass 60 yards. We don't have that.
Re: 2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dukes and Skins
Because we obviously don't draft guys with checkered backgrounds.......
I dont want to bring the list of names up again, but if I have to I'll be more than happy to share the guys we drafted who have "Character" issues
Exactly..where has that gotten us...I don't want any of them
