2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

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Originally Posted by GWinSkins83

William Gholston is somewhat like that. I just think he needs to play more violently with his hands. Sky's the limit for him if he does.

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What round do you think he goes in?

---------- Post added October-9th-2012 at 06:10 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by martytheman

You know what all that proves?
That the vagiants, as much as I hate to say it, were ahead of the curve in taking big, strong talented d linemen/pass rushers early and often.
Even the best cover corners can be toasted with enough time, or there is always the dink and dunk attack which is hard to defend, and that's why practically any team can march down the field in the 2 min drill.
A big, disruptive D linemen or two HAS to be a top priority this offseason..That's really the only way to stop today's insane passing NFL, shut it down with a good pass rush.

IMO, it's ridiculous that a guy can drop back and pass the ball 40-50 times a game and win, while only rushing 12-15 times.. but that's the norm now. The running game is not nearly worth what it once was in today's NFL.
The NFL today is all about passing and scoring (by design)
There needs to be a big time investment in getting after the qb, it will make everyone else better.

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What's interesting about the Giants is that they've really ceded some ability to stop the run in favor of going small on the DL. They put the onus of run stopping on their linebackers.

Their philosophy of loading up on pass rushers heeds a general psychological truth about the position. It's important to have a pass rushing stable because it's very hard to stay fresh doing it all game. The motivation and stamina it takes to shove up on a 300+ pound behemoth is rare, and having one guy battle that tackle all game plays to the tackle's favor. Your going to get a lot of rushes where your guy just mails it in and you're going to get ruts where your player unconsciously continues using the same tactics with diminishing returns.

Better to keep your rushers fresh so they go hard every snap. Better to mix up styles that the tackle will have to face.

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Originally Posted by stevemcqueen1

What round do you think he goes in?

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I mean he is 1st round talent. But I've been seeing 2nd round. He has some duds but dude is a LB in a Powerfoward body. I think he needs to play more violently with his hands n get better at the snap. But he has Elite measurables and Elite athletic ability for the position. He one of those players that if he plays more violently teams would have to gameplan for.

---------- Post added October-9th-2012 at 06:42 PM ----------

I have a feeling we're going back to a 4-3 next year. I don't why I feel like that but I do.

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Originally Posted by GWinSkins83

I mean he is 1st round talent. But I've been seeing 2nd round. He has some duds but dude is a LB in a Powerfoward body. I think he needs to play more violently with his hands n get better at the snap. But he has Elite measurables and Elite athletic ability for the position. He one of those players that if he plays more violently teams would have to gameplan for.

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You see him playing DL or LB in the NFL? He's got the body of a DL for sure. 6'7 280 is huge.

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I have a feeling we're going back to a 4-3 next year. I don't why I feel like that but I do.

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I don't want to change back personally. I like the 3-4 as a scheme better. I think it gives you more flexibility to defend the pass. A LBer is by nature, more flexible than a DL.

Also our linebackers are our best players by far. I want to keep the scheme that features them and puts more of them on the field.

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Originally Posted by stevemcqueen1

You see him playing DL or LB in the NFL? He's got the body of a DL for sure. 6'7 280 is huge.



I don't want to change back personally. I like the 3-4 as a scheme better. I think it gives you more flexibility to defend the pass. A LBer is by nature, more flexible than a DL.

Also our linebackers are our best players by far. I want to keep the scheme that features them and puts more of them on the field.

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Gholston will be DL. But can be an OLB too.

Yeah like the 3-4 too but why is Morris here? I think we see more cover 2 more this year than we've seen the past 3 years. Maybe I should say I think our base next year will be more 2-4-5.

Here is what I found on Gholston GW:

http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-...william00.html

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CAREER NOTES: Third-year player is in his second season as a starting defensive end . . . two-year letterwinner has 101 tackles, including 21.0 for losses (66 yards), in 28 career games and 16 starts.

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2012 stats: http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/player/...669/index.html

Some terrific cutups:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4Ezh-Xln-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEhiHSmzd8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w8buzKTYss

He looks pretty good. Phenomenal runner for his size. Look at him running down the field in pursuit of Montee Ball. He gains on Ball...

He's a first round athlete but probably second or third round skills right now. Instinctive player but very raw. He's so tall he just sees the field well, sees over top of everyone and so he can find the ball. But technique wise, when he can use all of that length to get off blockers, they can handle him. Taylor Lewan handled him well. Lewan's about as tall as Gholston and he plays with good technique and was able to keep Gholston contained most of that game. He'll get neutralized when the tackle gets a good bucket step and keeps his base under him. He doesn't have that power to jolt a tackle and lift his anchor. I'd say he's more of a finesse rusher at this point.

Gholston is a springy athlete, I see what you mean about him being a PF. That reminds me of Aldon Smith in some ways. Smith had freakishly long arms and was a real good second bounce athlete. Gholston has some of that too. It's kind of seeing Gholston all folded up in a 3 or 4 point stance. He's so tall, he looks like a pretzel. But he fires out of that thing fast and looks very coordinated.

The first set of cutups is from when he was a sophomore. Impressive stuff considering his age. I don't know if he'll come out early this year, in some ways I think he should stay for his senior season and become a beast. Right now, I don't think he has the strength to play as a 3-4 DL in the NFL, he's going to have to work to shape his body for the next level. If he stays another year it'll give him a chance to develop physically.

---------- Post added October-9th-2012 at 07:49 PM ----------

After watching Gholston play Wisconsin, can't help but notice how awesome Montee Ball looks. He's such a good player. I see some star ability in him. It'd be nice to have him and Morris to take the load off the passing game.

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Originally Posted by stevemcqueen1

Here is what I found on Gholston GW:

http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-...william00.html



2012 stats: http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/player/...669/index.html

Some terrific cutups:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4Ezh-Xln-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEhiHSmzd8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w8buzKTYss

He looks pretty good. Phenomenal runner for his size. Look at him running down the field in pursuit of Montee Ball. He gains on Ball...

He's a first round athlete but probably second or third round skills right now. Instinctive player but very raw. He's so tall he just sees the field well, sees over top of everyone and so he can find the ball. But technique wise, when he can use all of that length to get off blockers, they can handle him. Taylor Lewan handled him well. Lewan's about as tall as Gholston and he plays with good technique and was able to keep Gholston contained most of that game. He'll get neutralized when the tackle gets a good bucket step and keeps his base under him. He doesn't have that power to jolt a tackle and lift his anchor. I'd say he's more of a finesse rusher at this point.

Gholston is a springy athlete, I see what you mean about him being a PF. That reminds me of Aldon Smith in some ways. Smith had freakishly long arms and was a real good second bounce athlete. Gholston has some of that too. It's kind of seeing Gholston all folded up in a 3 or 4 point stance. He's so tall, he looks like a pretzel. But he fires out of that thing fast and looks very coordinated.

The first set of cutups is from when he was a sophomore. Impressive stuff considering his age. I don't know if he'll come out early this year, in some ways I think he should stay for his senior season and become a beast. Right now, I don't think he has the strength to play as a 3-4 DL in the NFL, he's going to have to work to shape his body for the next level. If he stays another year it'll give him a chance to develop physically.

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That's why I hope comes out now maybe he drops to 3rd and get him. Cause if he builds his strength and violent hands he will be dominant. Also I would like to get Kenny Tate in here too. If we are going to stick with the 3-4 n 2-4-5. I think Tate in the 2-4-5 can be a monster and very valuable.

---------- Post added October-9th-2012 at 07:52 PM ----------

Boy would I love to have CJ rightnow with Morris.

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Originally Posted by Monk4thaHALL

This is a vid I came across, make of it what you will - it's Russ Lande's opinion. He says the rumblings have him end of 1st, early 2nd.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-foo...u1bj8nrdiqf46s

I agree about his ability to penetrate, first step, quickness. There are times he can get swallowed up, stymied.

I mean I keep telling myself, if Dontari Poe is selected in the 1st round based purely on his size and athleticism, but lacking good tape, I wonder about a guy who obviously flashes on the tape, but not the same size, maybe similar athletic measurables when all said and done.

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Lande is by far the name I trust the most in terms of scouting opinions. When people ripped the Skins on LeRibeus, he was sitting there praising us for the pick(which I agreed with as well)

I do think though if Richardson keeps up his season, and has a good offseason then you could very well be right Monk

This goes against the grain, but I think Montee Ball is the best RB in the class.

His 2011 season is amazing. Probably the best season a RB has ever had that didn't win the Heisman.

I've seen LeVeon Bell and Lattimore and Stepfan Taylor and Eddie Lacey, but I haven't been as impressed with them as I am with Ball's film from last season.

To me, Lattimore just doesn't look like the same player he used to be. Bell isn't as fast nor versatile as Ball and Taylor and Lacey don't have his vision.

Ball looks like a future Probowler. He's got the wonderful qualities of elite vision paired with elite creativity. You'd think it was his OL doing all the work for him, as good as they were. But you can see him making two or three guys miss on so many of his runs.

- Terrific acceleration, starts and stops on a dime. Elite agillity, doesn't have to gather himself at all.
- Nasty juke step. Puts his foot in the ground and just explodes laterally with it.
- Nice spin move.
- Devastating stiff arms.
- Pretty good power as a runner, makes himself hard to bring down.
- Tremendous balance and flexibility. Can high step out of tackles while keep his pads low and leaning forward.
- Awesome vision and anticipation running inside, gets small to fit through brief holes and then can burn up field.
- Good speed to beat the defense to the edge and get upfield.
- Good looking route runner out of the backfield, good hands.
- Good enough picking up the blitz to stay on field on third and long.

All in all, I think he's got no weaknesses, and I think he's got the ability to be a big time star in our one cut zone running system. He's getting projected into the third round now, I'm guessing because he doesn't have elite size and long speed and he's been banged up this season.

He's also going to have a lot of carries on his legs relatively speaking, because as of today, he's got 712 career carries at Wisconsin. He'll probably finish with a little less than 900.

But man, I have a hard time seeing a better player than Ball make it to the third round. I know not many people here are anxious to draft a RB this year. But if you could draft a Probowler with a mere third rounder, wouldn't you do it? If we actually used him and he stayed healthy, that's what I think he can be. Elite acceleration + elite vision + elite balance and agility. You're not going to find a RB with that combination outside the first round too often.

Personally Giovani Bernard is a better RB IMO

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Originally Posted by GWinSkins83

That's why I hope comes out now maybe he drops to 3rd and get him. Cause if he builds his strength and violent hands he will be dominant. Also I would like to get Kenny Tate in here too. If we are going to stick with the 3-4 n 2-4-5. I think Tate in the 2-4-5 can be a monster and very valuable.

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Yeah Tate would be a natural nickel and dime defender you could throw into some of those alternative packages like 2-4-5 and 1-5-5. He'd be natural playing in the box.

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Boy would I love to have CJ rightnow with Morris.

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Chris Johnson?

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Originally Posted by stevemcqueen1

Yeah Tate would be a natural nickel and dime defender you could throw into some of those alternative packages like 2-4-5 and 1-5-5. He'd be natural playing in the box.



Chris Johnson?

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Tate is basically a lot like Kam Chancellor from VT

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Originally Posted by Dukes and Skins

Personally Giovani Bernard is a better RB IMO

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I like Bernard. But I like Ball better. Bernard is faster and shiftier and more dangerous in space than Ball. Probably a better receiver too. But he doesn't have the build to be a workhorse that Ball does, and he doesn't have Ball's balance, power, and vision. Not as good running between the tackles as Ball is IMO. Carries that Bernard will have to try and bounce outside for a loss or plunge ahead for only a two or three yard gain are ones that Ball will take for 8 or 9.

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Originally Posted by stevemcqueen1

I like Bernard. But I like Ball better. Bernard is faster and shiftier and more dangerous in space than Ball. Probably a better receiver too. But he doesn't have the build to be a workhorse that Ball does, and he doesn't have Ball's balance, power, and vision. Not as good running between the tackles as Ball is IMO. Carries that Bernard will have to try and bounce outside for a loss or plunge ahead for only a two or three yard gain are ones that Ball will take for 8 or 9.

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See the thing with you and me is I value Ball as a RB who is what he is because of the OL's he's had in front of him.

---------- Post added October-9th-2012 at 09:39 PM ----------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMVXXAF0u64

One of my favorite S prospects in the class. DJ Swearinger from South Carolina

Dukes I think Ball would put up big numbers behind most OLs. Wisconsin's line doesn't look good this year, but Ball is still putting up a ton of yards and tds. He's got a lot of natural creativity as a runner and great vision to find space between the tackles. On most of his big runs from last season, he was making guys miss.

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Originally Posted by stevemcqueen1

Dukes I think Ball would put up big numbers behind most OLs. Wisconsin's line doesn't look good this year, but Ball is still putting up a ton of yards and tds. He's got a lot of natural creativity as a runner and great vision to find space between the tackles. On most of his big runs from last season, he was making guys miss.

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Again your opinion is your Steve, just feel that Ball is overrated due to who he plays behind. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the 3rd round to be honest