The Jay Cutler argument for sticking with Mike Shanahan

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Originally Posted by Jumbo

This is one of the single biggest incidents in a many-decades-long history. Even with just average results in selections made, having kept that amount to throw at players would have been so huge...look at what's been done with the talent level we have...imagine what might have been, even for a first year with Rg3...and what it likely would have meant for the 2nd year...and the 3rd...sigh

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*Sniffle*

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

The shot was necessary in order to have readers understand the position I take as a basis for the argument.

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You could explain it a dozen times, and someone is going to still come in, not read beyond the OP and "go there."

The sadder thing is you shouldn't even need to know anything about the poster to get why what was included in the OP.

It's an internet sports message board. :)

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

The shot was necessary in order to have readers understand the position I take as a basis for the argument.

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Outside of Marty, I don't think Snyder has fired a coach who didn't deserve it. He also seems to have stayed out of front office decisions and is allowing the decisions to be made the professionals in place.

We're not in the best spot with talent right now, but in another 2 years, this team could be unstoppable. I did read what you wrote, I just don't see the connection to Snyder, being anything other than an old habit.

Jumbo, I don't get too far from the bar. ;)

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Originally Posted by Jumbo

You could explain it a dozen times, and someone is going to still come in, not read beyond the OP and "go there."

The sadder thing is you shouldn't even need to know anything about the poster to get why what was included in the OP.

It's an internet sports message board. :)

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I waver on the reason. Is it more a question of poor reading comprehension or are they being argumentative, simply reading unreasonable interpretations into a post so that they can be critical? It's probably both, but which is the dominant factor in your opinion?

---------- Post added November-23rd-2012 at 01:51 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Koolblue13

Outside of Marty, I don't think Snyder has fired a coach who didn't deserve it. He also seems to have stayed out of front office decisions and is allowing the decisions to be made the professionals in place.

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In my opinion, Dan Snyder has never hired a coach capable of building and maintaining the number one team in the NFL and that, very definitely, includes Marty and Mike. Thus my comment.

I understand your point. I like Mike and the team in place. I worry about a DC, but I doubt that falls on Snyder. I was always a Marty fan.

Shanny has been involved with the number one team in the NFL a few times in his career. I am confident he will be again soon.

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Originally Posted by Koolblue13

Jumbo, I don't get too far from the bar. ;)

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We are brothers in many ways. ;)

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Originally Posted by Koolblue13

I understand your point. I like Mike and the team in place. I worry about a DC, but I doubt that falls on Snyder. I was always a Marty fan.

Shanny has been involved with the number one team in the NFL a few times in his career. I am confident he will be again soon.

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I grade Mike on the teams he built after acquiring full control in 1999 because that's what he has here. His Super Bowl wins happened as a coach with a roster put together by others --including a good veteran defense.

I didn't want Marty here either. I figured conservative Martyball was unlikely to win Super Bowls. Marty never won one in his long career.

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

I waver on the reason. Is it more a question of poor reading comprehension or are they being argumentative, simply reading unreasonable interpretations into a post so that they can be critical? It's probably both, but which is the dominant factor in your opinion?

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Yes, both, but more the comprehension, and not as a result of limited basic cognitive ability in the large majority of cases, but born more of "lazy" and reactionary factors---the latter being due to preexisting bias/attitudes on poster/topic.

But there more to "it" than just that, and it applies to most "opinionating" in general.

But I won't turn this into a psychological treatise. :pfft:

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Originally Posted by Jumbo

....but born more of "lazy" and reactionary factors---the latter being due to preexisting bias/attitudes on poster/topic.

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Don't you wish everyone could rid themselves of those biases like you and me?:ols:

Shanahan needs to stay for the next 2 years, absolutely, if for no other reason than this: His biggest/best talent is drafting offensive players, and thanks to the RG3 trade we have no first rounders for the next 2 years. I'm not such a big fan of Shanny the coach, though I think adding his son in as OC is a big plus, nor am I overly impressed with his vision as GM - drafting well is one thing, but like Holmgren his skill lies almost entirely on the offensive side of the ball, and he fails to find good value in FA for defensive players. Shanny is, however, among the elite at finding mid to late rounds gems...Terrell Davis, Brandon Marshall, Alfred Morris, just to name a few.
Although it will never happen, the ideal scenario would be for Shanahan to fulfill his contract, the Skins to hire a real GM (not just a title for a de facto Dir of Operations that Bruce Allen is), and let that GM hire a brilliant up and coming defensive minded coach - someone to build up the other side of the roster and playbook.
Unfortunately, you can be certain Snyder will continue in the same pattern he's taken since buying the team - hiring an unproven offensive coach in hopes of finding the next Joe Gibbs, subsequently undermining him, then hiring a known name and handing over complete control to deflect criticism....at which point all the fans will revert to saying "this time he's finally learning..."

Seriously, this has been the modus operandi since this millenium began.
Hire Robiskie, everybody screams when the team collapses so....
Hire Schottenheimer and give him complete control of coaching and personnel. "Danny has learned his lesson, he's letting a football guy run things"
Hire Spurrier, then blow off Beathard who was supposed to sign on to build a team for him. Vinny continues Schot's work of ruining roster so...
Hire Gibbs and give him complete control of coaching and personnel. "Danny has learned his lesson, he's letting a football guy run things"
Hire Zorn. Vinny continues ruining a roster that Gibbs left aging and in the hands of a young but useless QB. Fans riot, so....
Hire Shanahan and give him complete control of coaching and personnel. Oh, and give George Allen's cap guru son a big title, since that was what Shanahan asked for anyways. "Danny has learned his lesson, he's letting football guys run things."
Anyone care to guess what Snyder is gonna do in 2015?.... I'll give you a hint, he'll probably be the offensive coordinator for either Green Bay or the Saints when the time comes, and he'll last 2 years tops.

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

Don't you wish everyone could rid themselves of those biases like you and me?:ols:

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As I age, my reflexes may slow a bit, but I can still draw a bias fast enough to make your head spin!

I liked Shanny as a hire but I've generally been on board with all hires initially. I go back and forth on it now.

For him to maximize RG III's talent -- 2 things IMO he still needs to get done:

1. Finally find a RT
2. Ensure he has enough playmakers

but the defense to me is the be all and end all for him -- shanny says this is a top 5 defense without the injuries my thoughts on that are twofold

1. I hope he doesn't mean it because IMO this defense isn't anywhere close to being an elite defense if healthy so they need to add some players

2. Am tired of injury excuses from him -- we all know really no team in the NFL gets through the year without injuries. Maybe next year Orkapo is healthy but lets say Kerrigan gets hurt, you can't anticipate everyone being healthy that's why depth is so important

But to your point, i do think specifically for RG III, its better to keep Shanny for both his offensive mind and for continuity sake. But for me personally, I want at least an average defense next year, if the defense stinks again then there is so much slack am going to give him.

We saw how big of an impact Merriweather had in a half. Imagine having two competent safeties (Merriweather and Jackson) all season. We'd be 8-3.

How many coaches ARE capable of building and maintaining the #1 team in the NFL? Belicik is about the only one, and when's the last time he won a Superbowl?

I mean...what do yall want?

I didn't know enough about Shanahan to feel either way about the hire. I was just glad Cerrato was gone (and Zorn). Shanahan has had a couple mistakes (McNabb) here and there, but overall I've loved everything he's done here. In Shanahan I Trust.

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Originally Posted by The Robert Griffin Experience

Nailed it perfectly. You absolutely cannot fire Mike Shanahan, or if you must, you must hire someone running a similar offense, or promote Kyle to HC. No, Shanny will never nail every draft pick or build a #1 team on both sides of the ball. We'll probably never have an elite defense like what the Niners or Texans enjoy. But we can certainly build an absolutely unstoppable offense that can win a Super Bowl or two.

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Kyle isn't ready to be a HC. I'd freak out with him at the helm.

It's my opinion too that Mike needs to remain HC because of RGIII. He needs years more here to get the kind of stability RGIII needs to become the player he should. Mike McCarthy and the Green Bay GM are not Bill Belichick or even Sean Payton caliber yet you'd never think of firing them. They've got talent deficiencies too.

Yeah, Mike as the personnel man isn't necessarily ideal. He saves his butt by being able to expertly draft his offensive scheme and get great value and impact talent out of players no other team valued. He's also conservative in FA so as not to sink us there. That's good enough to build a playoff team when you went out and got the most talented LT and QB in the NFL. Offense wins in the regular season and then when you get to the playoffs regularly, anything can happen. Manning and Rodgers got rings with shaky surrounding talent. Brees did too. Those defenses were not that good but they could catch lightning in a bottle and come up with big plays enough and their brilliant offenses gave them a huge margin for error. We're building a similar dynamic. Won't be a dynasty but it'll be good enough for me.