Thoughts of a Negative Poster

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

I wasn't. But you said you thought the negativity was balanced.

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Not balanced on every issue or trade -- it can be skewed one way or another item by item. But on the aggregate, I think you got a fair share of homers and critics. Really depends on the week, its volatile, more negative when things are going poorly during the season and conversely positive during winning streaks. There have been plenty of critics for example of Cerrato and Danny probably more so than defenders. Even Gibbs had his fair share of critics.

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

I've spent more time discussing the Skins with you than I have with any other poster -- and for the same reason. I know you are trying to be fair and realistic. It doesn't matter that we often disagree.

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thanks and ditto. for me the key is agree or disagree is not the bottom line for me -- I like it when the member puts some thought and rationale behind their point, you do so and do it well, and most importantly at least for me -- you do it in an entertaining way. And if part of your point is we shouldn't feel obligated to toe the company line as fans -- I agree 100%.

Heck forget this board, I hope with the Redskins front office/coaching staff, you have some people that are willing to challenge others where there is some back and forth as part of decision making - IMO its dangerous to have an organization littered with yes man, which purportedly was Vinny Cerrato's deal/relationship with Snyder. I liked it when RG III one time said some like to surround themselves with yes men, he likes to surround himself with no men.

Years ago there was a show called Redskins lunch where callers can talk to Joe Gibbs in a Q & A every week or so. I talked to him 3 times, and as much as I worship what he did during his first tenure, I challenged him on the calls. I recalled one of my calls, I told him "For a team that has had some success with third round picks like Chris Cooley and others, why is the team so willing to trade away 2nd and third round picks in deals so liberally. The Redskins have had less draft picks than any other team in the last 5 years, and have gotten burned on most of those transactions, is this going to continue?"

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Originally Posted by Brotherz

You titled your thread "thoughts of a NEGATIVE poster" Oldfan. Why didn't you title it "Thoughts of a realistic poster"? How can you do that and blame the reader for the confusion?

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I didn't expect people to stop after reading the title.

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

Can you be more specific? What part of my conclusion do you think I should retract? Here it is again:

I write this to encourage more negative voices in this forum. I'm not referring to those who enjoy second guessing every coach's decision that fails or those who trash players beyond reason. I'm encouraging those who try very hard to be realistic and fair to speak up and be heard when you don't agree with the decisions of Redskins management. Don't worry that your opinions won't be popular with the homer crowd. Take solace in the fact that, so far in the Snyder era, the homers have been consistently wrong.

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I just think "negative" is the wrong choice of words for what you're saying..I think you want more realistic or more grounded posters...not so much negative posters...which you actually say further in the post...I don't think you should retract anything in your post...I just think negative was a poor choice of an adjective for what you were trying to convey..and then I just spouted my own feelings...I think that's what this board is for...all of us as fans of this great team to voice our opinions whether it's agreeable to all or not..I enjoy your posts for the most part...you're grounded in most everything you post...so continue what you do...perhaps you're the ying to our yang..:)

I look at the team as if i'm part of the team, someone who can be objective and sometimes critical but always remaining stedfast in love of the team.

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

Here's an example: After the run to the playoffs in 2005, giddy optimism swept this forum. I was the lone pessimistic voice

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Someone thinks highly of themselves....

ps....you were by no means the only person who knew that team was "smoke and mirrors" and would not last into future seasons.

Get over yourself.....

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Originally Posted by kleese

You didn't ask me, but I'll sit you on the couch anyway :)

GHH; to me you are a Kevlar Fan. You love the team so much, but have been emotionally roasted so many times that you are always sure to never leave your house without your bullet proof vest. You have convinced yourself that it will take eons to rebuild as a protective measure for yourself so that you can cope if it does indeed, take eons. And if things happen sooner, then you will be joyously and pleasantly surprised (like right now). :)

Just send me your address and I'll bill you....

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'Kevlar Fan' :ols: I'm having that one, lol.

There's an element of truth in the above man, even if your probably generalizing a wee too much on things. But regardless, I appreciate the response, and think I may just pinch that line, lol.

Hail.

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I write this to encourage more negative voices in this forum. I'm not referring to those who enjoy second guessing every coach's decision that fails or those who trash players beyond reason. I'm encouraging those who try very hard to be realistic and fair to speak up and be heard when you don't agree with the decisions of Redskins management. Don't worry that your opinions won't be popular with the homer crowd. Take solace in the fact that, so far in the Snyder era, the homers have been consistently wrong.

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This paragraph is the most interesting to me Oldfan. So let me try again here. Are you saying we aren't having enough debate? In other words, do you believe there are too many "homers" and not enough critics to have good discussion? Maybe I have missed the point of the thread.

In the end, none of our opinions really matter. The only thing important is how well something is thought out and communicated whether it is positive or negative. There are definitely right ways and wrong ways for both. You have ra ra ra we're the greatest or woe is me this sucks, that sucks, everything sucks which are two sides of the same coin, and then you have: I think this is good/bad because of point a, point b, and point c.

Nobody likes the negative nancy's that strive for the ability to say 'see I told you so', but as long as you make an intelligent case for your argument, you should be fine.

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

I didn't expect people to stop after reading the title.

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It's the norm more often than not though. People work on autopilot rather than controlling their mind every second. A catchy thread title like yours would provoke an immediate, unconcious response. It's like seeing a catchy advertisement.

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

I didn't expect people to stop after reading the title.

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Strawman

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

I didn't expect people to stop after reading the title.

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Then you expect much my friend.

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Originally Posted by Captain Injury

Don't call someone naive for criticizing where your communication fails you. Your ideas aren't bad, but your communication is elementarily unclear. I've showed you where. I don't care to assume the motives behind people's actions. We aren't privy to those and that is obvious. Here I could assume you are deliberately trying to shift the argument to "what people are trying to do with your posts." I'll stay on topic. Your ideas are good. Your communication is not clear.

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You don't care to assume the motives behind other people's actions? Have you no experience with online debates? Are you unaware that twisting the words of the opponent is common practice?

When I say people aren't confused by what I meant by "negative voices," I'm basing it on experience with internet debate.

Honestly, is this not clear enough?

I write this to encourage more negative voices in this forum. I'm not referring to those who enjoy second guessing every coach's decision that fails or those who trash players beyond reason. I'm encouraging those who try very hard to be realistic and fair to speak up and be heard when you don't agree with the decisions of Redskins management. Don't worry that your opinions won't be popular with the homer crowd. Take solace in the fact that, so far in the Snyder era, the homers have been consistently wrong.

Ok for the sake of argument a "realist" by your definition says the following:

"Rg3 won't workout because the style of play he undertakes won't translate to the next level."

Hypothetically - Rg3 wins rookie of the year and God forbid gets a Theisman like career ending injury on the last play of this season. Was the "realist" right?


I give this hypothetical to challenge the notion that the "homers" have been consistently "wrong".

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

I made two claims: 1) The major moves during the Snyder era have been enthusiastically supported (I heard no opposition to that claim) 2) I have opposed most of them (My posting history is well-known by regulars -- no one disputed that claim)

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Right... and, as I said, from the outside looking in you pointing out that fact and reiterating that the homers are wrong is a very smug and ego-driven thing to do. Was it necessary to effectively say nanny nanny boo boo?

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Originally Posted by Oldfan

So, when you said --

but it's also okay to be a blind homer if you really love the team that much

you weren't implying that homers love the Redskins more than other fans?

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Not in any way, shape, or form. You read into that waaaaaaay too much. Why wouldn't it be okay to be a blind homer if that person likes the team that much? It's their heart that will be broken!

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Originally Posted by Gibbs Hog Heaven

'Kevlar Fan' :ols: I'm having that one, lol.

There's an element of truth in the above man, even if your probably generalizing a wee too much on things. But regardless, I appreciate the response, and think I may just pinch that line, lol.

Hail.

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When the bullets start flying in Cleveland this Sunday, I'm not gonna make it. I'll take a direct hit to the heart and die right there on my couch. But you? You'll be OK.... You brought your jacket. They can't hurt you anymore :)