41 billion in unpaid hospital bills this year may jump to 93 billion next year

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Originally Posted by twa

if you assign the first to the wrong place the second is less likely to be accepted

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Don't disagree, but the reality (from my perspective) is we've been ducking responsiblity for a growing healthcare mess for at least thirty years and trying now to assign blame is sort of like playing hot potato.

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Originally Posted by Burgold

Don't disagree, but the reality (from my perspective) is we've been ducking responsiblity for a growing healthcare mess for at least thirty years and trying now to assign blame is sort of like playing hot potato.

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Catch :silly:

" could more than double next year due to states "opting out" and other baked in factors."

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Originally Posted by Koolblue13

I don't care about this at all. That system is corrupt and broken and I will take as much advantage of them, as they take of us. **** you.

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Yes, because we're entitled to take advantage of as much stuff we deem "corrupt" as possible! Screw faceless corporations and systems, we deserve it!

Just another reason i am glad to live in Canada :D

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Originally Posted by DRSmith

Just another reason i am glad to live in Canada :D

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Yet some Canadians come here for healthcare.

strange world

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Originally Posted by twa

Catch :silly:

" could more than double next year due to states "opting out" and other baked in factors."

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Fair enough, but I was paraphrasing an expert not speaking for myself.

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Originally Posted by twa

Yet some Canadians come here for healthcare.

strange world

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Canada does actually have a pretty bad healthcare system. But it's better then ours if we use the infant mortality rate. Which yes, is the commonly used practice for measuring health care systems.

Also, did you know how many of the top 10 countries in that list use single payer? 9. Guess what the tenth one uses? Obamacare.

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Originally Posted by Bang

In the last ten years i've had two family trips to the hospital,, once my son broke his arm, and another time we had a ride to ER in the ambulance for something else.

In BOTH occasions the on call staff, the doctors who performed any sort of procedures, anesthesiologist, ambulance (county Fire dept..)
ALL have billed MULTIPLE times.
In the case of my son's broken arm, the doctor on call "saw" him on a friday night from his home on a computer, and decided to send him home with his broken wrist in a soft cast to be set on monday.
By monday it neded surgery.. hey imagine that.. cash upgrade, eh?
The anesthesiologist billed the insurance company 3 times. He sent 2 bills to me personally. Over and over.. The "attending' physician who viewed the broken wrist from home and decided to put my son through surgery by claiming it would be OK, he billed the insurance company twice, and me twice as well.
Phone call after phone call after phone call. Flunky after flunky after flunky tell me to not worry, it's now been handled, the payments that were made have been credited etc etc.
til the next bill comes.
That's the pattern i'm in with the ambulance. About once every 6 weeks. It's been paid. the notices don't say "overdue".. they just keep kicking out bills.

~Bang

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I dated a girl for a while that worked in a dental billing office. She claimed that the standard practice at the time, late 90's, was to randomly re-bill about 60% of eligible patients on a 90 day turn. Im sure it has gotten much more automated and intrusive since then.

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Originally Posted by Special K

Yes, because we're entitled to take advantage of as much stuff we deem "corrupt" as possible! Screw faceless corporations and systems, we deserve it!

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I tried to do it the right way. Didn't work. I've paid my own insurance, it didn't pay. I tried working with the hospitals, they wouldn't work with me. It has nothing to do with being entitled and more to do with feeling like you're the one getting screwed by the "faceless corporation" and fighting back.

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Originally Posted by Burgold

The problem w the opting out is that the affordable care act made certain assumptions in order to pay for the uninsured. With states not pitching in, but mandatory costs enacted anyway large debts will accrue. Explained much better and more fully in interview. Part of the big problem is the Supreme Court ruling.

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There is no problem with opting out. If republican led states wish to turn down billions in federal aid and federally funded healthcare services along philosophical grounds then have at it. The political toll for such a decision will coerce these states into falling in line, and once in line they will not be able to give back the services because to do so will be to act against millions of peoples best interest within their states.

Suggesting it's a financial hardship for the US healthcare industry to forgo pr-existing conditions, unify prices, avoid spending more than 25% of their gross intake on overhead ( profits, salaries, advertising) rather than services is again absurd. We know that per capita we are paying nearly twice as much as the next most expensive healthcare system in the world. There is thus at least two orders of magnitude fat built into the US healthcare system which they can draw upon to actually provide value to the US consumer.. Something which they frankly don't often do today.

---------- Post added January-10th-2013 at 11:07 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by twa

Yet some Canadians come here for healthcare.

strange world

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Originally Posted by HeluCopter29

Canada does actually have a pretty bad healthcare system.

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You guys should ask a Canadian about their system. Canadian healthcare is the most popular government program in Canada's history. The politician who fathered Canada's healthcare system is the most admired politician of the 20th century in Canada. Canadians universally love their healthcare system, as do the British, French, Germans, Italians... you get the picture.

It's only advertisments paid for by the US healthcare providers who make the counter claims, Again ask a Canadian.

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According to a recent Canadian survey by Harris Decima, 70 percent of the respondents say that Canada’s healthcare system is working well (either very well or fairly well). Further, 82-percent of respondents said they preferred the Canadian system to the American system, which was favored by only 8 percent of respondents. The preference for the Canadian system was found across all demographics and in all parts of Canada.

Think of how tough it is to get 82 percent of anyone to agree on anything. With 25 percent of respondents to a recent British magazine survey doubting that humans ever landed on the moon, there are probably very few topics that would garner 82 percent support of anyone so this result is pretty significant.
http://healthcare-legislation.blogsp...ink-about.html

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Originally Posted by HeluCopter29

Also, did you know how many of the top 10 countries in that list use single payer? 9. Guess what the tenth one uses? Obamacare.

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Every industrialized country in the world subscribes to Universal coverage for healthcare, except the United States, and what they all have in common is they all pay less per capita in doing so... Pay less per citizen in their country than the United States does, even though we don't cover 50 million people, and cover half of those with coverage with medicare or medicaid, which are very efficient programs.

---------- Post added January-10th-2013 at 11:16 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by Burgold

Because suddenly there are certain payments that states were supposed to take care of that now they won't or don't have to. That means that the hospitals who can't refuse service may be left holding the bag even to a greater extent than before.

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The federal government is on the line to pay for all the increases for medicare and medicaid associated with the states signing up for the program. The states just have to opt in. I believe after 10 years the states would have to pay for only 5% of the new coverage. So the states aren't getting anything by opting out except to try to deny Obama a victory, which is already tucked away in his ledger. There pressure on these states to opt in is going to get harder and harder to resist over the next decade. There will certainly be a political price to pay by denying millions of your citizens free healthcare coverage.

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Originally Posted by twa

Yet some Canadians come here for healthcare.

strange world

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Yes some of the rich will take advantage of the system that puts money first and for some in rural areas their provincial health plan will pay for them to go a hospital in the US if they can not deal with something.

But then again I remember Sarah Palin talking about her family going to Canada for healthcare.

Healthcare is not free but at the same time is should not be used to fleece people either.

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Originally Posted by JMS

There is no problem with opting out. If republican led states wish to turn down billions in federal aid and federally funded healthcare services along philosophical grounds then have at it. The political toll for such a decision will coerce these states into falling in line, and once in line they will not be able to give back the services because to do so will be to act against millions of peoples best interest within their states.

The federal government is on the line to pay for all the increases for medicare and medicaid associated with the states signing up for the program. The states just have to opt in. I believe after 10 years the states would have to pay for only 5% of the new coverage. So the states aren't getting anything by opting out except to try to deny Obama a victory, which is already tucked away in his ledger. There pressure on these states to opt in is going to get harder and harder to resist over the next decade. There will certainly be a political price to pay by denying millions of your citizens free healthcare coverage.

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You're not arguing with me, but the Bruce Siegel, CEO of the National Association of Public Hospitals and Health Systems. Of course, you are welcome to disagree with him, but listen to the piece. He supports his case pretty well.

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Originally Posted by Koolblue13

I tried to do it the right way. Didn't work. I've paid my own insurance, it didn't pay. I tried working with the hospitals, they wouldn't work with me. It has nothing to do with being entitled and more to do with feeling like you're the one getting screwed by the "faceless corporation" and fighting back.

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Question: What do you think happens when hospitals lose money from patients who rationalize stealing?

I remember asking that question in relationship to movie piracy. The answer just makes you feel a bit emptier.

I do think hospitals, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies over charge. I also know that last year more than a thousand closed or were forced to merge. There's a problem on both sides of the coin

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Originally Posted by Special K

Question: What do you think happens when hospitals lose money from patients who rationalize stealing?

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same thing that happens when the govt reduces compensation for procedures???