Re: Tim Tebow = Jim Jensen = A Great Fit For Redskins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TD_washingtonredskins
I'm not sure how you can say that with a straight face. He's not a NFL-caliber QB, that much is clear. But he's a very talented football player and athlete. I have to imagine an offensive coordinator somewhere could put him in the right role to make plays in the NFL. The key is that he can't be your main weapon. If he can be a hybrid player to line up all over the field and either present a mismatch or serve as a decoy, then I think he could help an offensive move the chains and produce.
I understand what you're saying and I shouldn't have been so blunt in my remarks. This is what I was getting at...
Tebow was a great college player. One of the best to ever play. The pro game is different, and I don't think his skillset translates to the NFL. To make a comparison, Tyler Hansbrough (Tar Heel) was an absolute beast in college hoops. However, his raw power and off the charts work ethic do not translate to dominating in the NBA.
Tebow simply cannot make all the throws that he needs to make to be successful under center. And if you moved him to H-Back, I'm not sure he'd be any better than the other guys in the league that play that position. I admire Tebow for the way he plays the game, I just don't see the fascination with the guy. Did the Broncos win a playoff game with him? Yes. But it was after his team collapsed down the stretch, due to the fact that teams exposed him in the read option. The reason was because he couldn't throw the ball accurately. The Patriots made him look ridiculous, and I think he would have many more games like that, than games where he miraculously willed his team to victory.
Re: Tim Tebow = Jim Jensen = A Great Fit For Redskins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sjinhan
I think Tebow would be an upgrade over DY if Tebow can be an adequate blocker. He would be bigger threat in the running and passing game. He would provide more options for Kyle. Now if he can just give up on the whole QB thign he would be great.
---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 06:23 PM ----------
Whoa, I'm sorry but I gotta challenge you on that one. Your first statement being "if Tebow can be an,adequate blocker". Clearly he isn't the blicker that DY already is. Second DY is underated both running and catching out of the backfield. When he was thrown the ball he caught it sure handedly immediately turned up field for positive yardage all the while punishing defenders. I honestly don't remember him being taken down 1-on-1.
thats a fact but the problems is that Tebow has UDFA talent as a QB.
Re: Tim Tebow = Jim Jensen = A Great Fit For Redskins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kleese
Do you know how many guys taken in rounds 3-7 are in the NFL five years later? The percentages are crazy. Go back and take a look at the names of the 230 or so guys taken in those rounds three years ago and tell me how many wound up being impactful football players.
Tebow is big, fast, and very skilled....he is a great athlete. He also has experience playing football at some pretty high levels. Good coaches can take a player like that and make him an asset.
---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 04:28 PM ----------
Again, read my opening paragraph about acquiring good players. You just talked yourself out of bringing in someone because you aren't sure he will have a role. Instead, I like the idea of collecting talent (especially on the cheap) and then figuring out the best way to utilize it. You must have a good staff in order to pull this off...I'm confident now that we do. It should always be a competition...always. If we bring Tebow in and he gets outplayed by DY, Paul, Paulsen, Helu, etc... then you can admit it didn't work out and move on. But my suspcision is that if Kyle got his hands on him that he would be able to find creative ways to work him in....and Tebow with the ball in his hands is more dangerous than DY, Paul, or Paulsen.
I completely understand what you're saying. However, he would clearly be a luxury we simply can't afford right now. The first issue being our salary cap. I think most ppl are off base when they assume he going to come cheap. We gotta restructure or cut Hall. Make a call on Fred Davis. Stop playing cheap and find a worthy RT not a retread or junk man special. Then we still have to sign our draft class. All that being said w/out consideration to acquiring F/As. As talent as he maybe he doesn't bring anything significant to the table. He's just not a dual threat.
Re: Tim Tebow = Jim Jensen = A Great Fit For Redskins
[QUOTE=DogofWar1;9409792]Kleese, I understand what you want to bring to the team with a guy like Tebow, I just don't think Tebow is the guy to do it.
There is definitely value to a player who can block, run, pass, and catch, filling the role of FB, RB, QB, and WR. The ability to have someone in the backfield who can also go out wide and pass in a pinch is incredible. I don't think Tebow is that guy. I remember him running about trying to fill one of those roles in Denver in the first half of 2011, and he was very poor at it, and there has been nothing since then to indicate he's grown in ability.
Kleese fell off the wagon, I think.:silly:
The problem with Tebow is he has absolutely no speed or agility; finding that Kelvin Bryant-type player is not easy in today's game; at least finding someone who is actually good at all of them. Besides, the circus and negative publicity a.k.a. Jed Clampett-moving to Beverly Hills size baggage will make Philly look like childs play...
Re: Tim Tebow = Jim Jensen = A Great Fit For Redskins
Re: Tim Tebow = Jim Jensen = A Great Fit For Redskins
Let me address the most popular counters to my OP.
1. Tebow really isn't a special talent
That is simply where we agree to disagree. If he isn't, then of course it's a stupid idea to bring him in and try to turn him into something. It would fail. But I've always viewed Tebow as a very gifted football player that was just without an ideal position. He might not be all that fast... But for a guy that solid, he's pretty fast. He has always done well gaining yardage in space. I believe that he has fairly unique skills that given committment, he could help at team as a jack of all trades.
2. Why go after Tebow when we could just sign established players?
It's a legit question, but the whole idea is that he fulfills a multitude of roles, thus saving roster space and money. Again, this is of course assuming that I'm right and he is actually a GOOD FB/HB/TE. I also don't think we can afford to go out and sign many established skill position players (and unlike many of you, I think we NEED them). Instead, I like the idea of getting creative and rolling the dice.
3. Not worth the media circus
I've addressed this many times, but again, the majority of the circus stemmed from the fact that there was an argument over whether he should be the staring QB. The other options were Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Mark Sanchez, and Greg McElroy.... So you can see why there would be controversy. Here, there would be none of that. There would likely be a little frenzy in he beginning which would fade quickly when everyone realized there was no story to tell.
Re: Tim Tebow = Jim Jensen = A Great Fit For Redskins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kleese
Let me address the most popular counters to my OP.
1. Tebow really isn't a special talent
That is simply where we agree to disagree. If he isn't, then of course it's a stupid idea to bring him in and try to turn him into something. It would fail. But I've always viewed Tebow as a very gifted football player that was just without an ideal position. He might not be all that fast... But for a guy that solid, he's pretty fast. He has always done well gaining yardage in space. I believe that he has fairly unique skills that given committment, he could help at team as a jack of all trades.
2. Why go after Tebow when we could just sign established players?
It's a legit question, but the whole idea is that he fulfills a multitude of roles, thus saving roster space and money. Again, this is of course assuming that I'm right and he is actually a GOOD FB/HB/TE. I also don't think we can afford to go out and sign many established skill position players (and unlike many of you, I think we NEED them). Instead, I like the idea of getting creative and rolling the dice.
3. Not worth the media circus
I've addressed this many times, but again, the majority of the circus stemmed from the fact that there was an argument over whether he should be the staring QB. The other options were Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Mark Sanchez, and Greg McElroy.... So you can see why there would be controversy. Here, there would be none of that. There would likely be a little frenzy in he beginning which would fade quickly when everyone realized there was no story to tell.
Here's a question.
We have Robert Griffin III. We have a certified, bonafide, awesome, elite caliber talent at quarterback who can play the position in ways never dreamed of.
We also have a pretty damn talented running back in Alfred Morris, who runs those tackles, lowers his head to truck people, but also has elusiveness and a quickness that little people thought he would have.
Together, these two have helped the Redskins create one of the most potent offenses in the NFL.
...Why would you want to take the ball out of their hands to give it to Tim Tebow on some gimmick play?
You keep saying he can do so much, but he literally can not do anything better than the guys we currently have can. He can't play quarterback as effectively as Robert Griffin III, or even Kirk Cousins. He can't run the ball as effectively as Alfred Morris. He can't pass protect on first down. He can't be a lead blocker better than Darrel Young, who was the best full back in our division and one of the best lead blocking fullbacks in the league, and he can't catch the way DY can. He can't run routes the same way Pierre Garcon or Josh Morgan or Santana Moss can, he can't play in-line tight end as well as Logan or split out wide like Fred Davis.
Where is proof of this "jack-of-all-trades" skillset you speak of? The Broncos and the Jets both tried to make him a jack of all trades, and it didn't work. We don't need established players. We can go out in the draft and find any number of players that can do what Tebow can do.
Tebow's best success has come as the truest definition of a running quarterback. If we were going to sign him---which we shouldn't---it should only be as a quarterback, and he should warm the bench and chill in street clothes like Rex did most of the season. Trying to turn Tebow into this Swiss Army knife player isn't worth it, especially when there's basically zero guarantee that the time you waste try to turn him into something he's not and has never been will pay off.
And whether you like to admit it or not, the media scrutinty surrounding Tebow is a real thing. Especially with Robert coming off an injury. You can pretend that the media would suddenly forget Tebow was on our football team after a while. But that's not the case. Remember what happened when we drafted Kirk? Imagine that times twenty. "Do the Redskins not think RG3 is healthy enough to play by the season opener? Are the Redskins down on Kirk Cousins? What role will Tebow play in th eoffense, what packages will they allow him to be on?", all summer for an entire summer.
And all is this is made even more moot since Kyle was lukewarm on Tebow coming out, at best.
Re: Tim Tebow = Jim Jensen = A Great Fit For Redskins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NLC1054
Here's a question.
We have Robert Griffin III. We have a certified, bonafide, awesome, elite caliber talent at quarterback who can play the position in ways never dreamed of.
We also have a pretty damn talented running back in Alfred Morris, who runs those tackles, lowers his head to truck people, but also has elusiveness and a quickness that little people thought he would have.
Together, these two have helped the Redskins create one of the most potent offenses in the NFL.
...Why would you want to take the ball out of their hands to give it to Tim Tebow on some gimmick play?
If Tebow played some FB or WR or TE, he would just be another option to get the ball. Unless you believe that Griffin or Morris should get the ball on every play for some reason. Griffin throws to Logan Paulsen, Niles Paul, Chris Cooley, Evan Royster, and Darrel Young. They all contribute in some way and are all less than dynamic. What's the harm is Tebow steals some of their targets? I think that's what the OP envisions, not some wildcat gimmick or an offense that features Tebow.
Re: Tim Tebow = Jim Jensen = A Great Fit For Redskins
We have no real reason to believe he has any ability to block, catch passes or play special teams, even assuming he is finally ready to accept that that is his path to an NFL career. He sells enough tickets that he will surely demand well more than the minimum and if he is any good at this new role he will become an expensive re-sign. Very expensive. So not much upsiide in the long-term. Add to that the circus, and imagine RG3 goes down with an injury and Cousins has a bad game.
Just no thanks.
Re: Tim Tebow = Jim Jensen = A Great Fit For Redskins
MY main interest in Tebow is as an insurance policy if RG3 is not 100%. I absolutely would want Cousins to start but I believe there would be 12 snaps a game for Tebow to come in...sometimes in the backfield with Cousins at QB... sometimes taking his own snaps in the red zone. The guys is tough as nails and an asset to any team. Rex Ryan is an idiot and the only reason he refused to put Tebow in at the end so it wouldn't be proven that he should have been in the whole season.
For 2 million a year I say we bring this kid on board. Media circus schmircus!
I gets dizzying just imagining RGB and TT1 in the SAME back field along with AF1!!!
Re: Tim Tebow = Jim Jensen = A Great Fit For Redskins
The ONLY situation where Tebow would be a viable option is if they didn't have a franchise QB which they do or if they didn't have a capable backup which they also do. They even decent veteran third stringer with Grossman :puke: as bad as he is.
