Re: HOF proves itself a joke once again
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Originally Posted by
Burgold
Victim of era. If he had played with a quarterback or if Vinny had built a decent team around him he'd have gone from a perenial pro bowler to a hofer. Just my opinion.
This is true, but Chris most likely belongs in the hall of very, very good. He was a great player, but I don't think you can even argue he was better than his contemporaries Pace, Roaf, Ogden, or Jones. How things work out there will likely be 4-5 HoF tackles from the 2000s, meaning Chris is very much borderline.
I think Jacoby faces the same issue of being 4th or 5th best in a decade, but overall stands a much better chance than Samuels does.
No qualms with Larry Allen getting in. 11 time pro-bowler, 7 time all-pro, 1990s AND 2000s all-decade team. Despite being a Cowboy he had a great career.
Re: HOF proves itself a joke once again
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Originally Posted by
Bonez3
? Sapp as 1st ballot over Strahan. Not even close IMO.
Wasn't going to post in this thread until this. While Strahan is deserving of the HoF, don't understate Warren Sapp's play. He didn't play the pretty boy position on the D-line as Strahan did, so his job was not to get to the QB. Yet he has one of the highest sack totals of any DT, during his time in Tampa teams didn't like to run his way, which made him a very good run stopper. IMO, Sapp was one of the top 5 DT's in NFL history, never mind his mouth or attitude. Strahan, though he had a great career, most of his HoF consideration was placed on 1 season where he broke the single season sack record, which was given to him by Brett Favre.
Re: HOF proves itself a joke once again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SkinsGuy
Yeah, it is a shame that guys like Larry Allen are getting in first-ballot because of all the Cowboy bandwagon love, while players like Jacoby are STILL on the outside looking in.
Lachey will probably never make it because his career was cut short by injuries.
Not sure about Samuels, though he could get in.
I think it is time for ES and Redskins nation to start another push for some of these players like was done for Monk. :)
To be fair, Cowboys have 14 HoFers and we have 19. Sure, we have 30 years more history, but it's fairly even given that. Jacoby was great, but all he has over Allen is two more super bowls, whereas Allen has 7 more pro bowls, and 4 more all-pro's. It's hard for hall of fame voters to ignore all that hardware.
Re: HOF proves itself a joke once again
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Originally Posted by
2cents
Sorry, I've been a Skins fan all my life. Love Chris as a guy and a player, but he is not a HOFer imo. Sorry.
This. There is no way Chris gets into the HOF. Just too many GREAT LTs during his era. He's in the Hall of the Very Good.
Re: HOF proves itself a joke once again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SkinsGuy
Yeah, it is a shame that guys like Larry Allen are getting in first-ballot because of all the Cowboy bandwagon love, while players like Jacoby are STILL on the outside looking in.
Lachey will probably never make it because his career was cut short by injuries.
Not sure about Samuels, though he could get in.
I think it is time for ES and Redskins nation to start another push for some of these players like was done for Monk. :)
???
Jacoby was great. Larry Allen though was probably the #2 guard in NFL History.
Re: HOF proves itself a joke once again
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Originally Posted by
DeMarco Murray 29
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Jacoby was great. Larry Allen though was probably the #2 guard in NFL History.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying Allen doesn't deserve to be in the HoF. He does.
I'm just saying it stinks that he gets rushed in while Grimm had to wait and wait, and Jacoby still isn't in.
And Jacoby and Grimm played on probably the most famous line in NFL history. It's sad.
Re: NFL Announce Hall of Fame Class 2013
In an interview on ESPN, Parcells said he was very close to signing Cris Carter while he was coach of the Giants. Can you imagine the Redskins having to defend that twice a year?
Re: HOF proves itself a joke once again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeMarco Murray 29
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Jacoby was great. Larry Allen though was probably the #2 guard in NFL History.
Allen deserves to be in and in quickly. But I don't buy 2nd best in history by a long shot. Give me Upshaw and Munchak just for starters. And Randall McDaniel.
Re: HOF proves itself a joke once again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SkinsGuy
Yeah, it is a shame that guys like Larry Allen are getting in first-ballot because of all the Cowboy bandwagon love, while players like Jacoby are STILL on the outside looking in.
I think you've got it all wrong on this one. If Allen's career doesn't warrant 1st-ballot inclusion, I don't know what does. My biggest complaint about this class was Sapp. Save your hatred for those less deserving than Jacoby. Allen is definitely more qualified than Jacoby.
**Jacoby ruined his chances when he did those Theater Vision commercials. No way the NFL lets him do an induction speech.
Re: NFL Announce Hall of Fame Class 2013
Well, I'm glad they finally "let" Cris Carter in. Dude has been as big a whiner as ever and he proved it with his crying Saturday. Now I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to get in, but he had to realize he wasn't a first ballot HOFer and other guys were more deserving at the time then he was.
Jacoby yes.
Samuels no.
Lachey maybe.
Re: HOF proves itself a joke once again
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Originally Posted by
Burgold
On a serious note, is Chris Samuels a first ballot guy?
I don't think Samuels ever makes it.
He was never considered the best at his position. And he played on a ton of terrible teams.
Offensive linemen - unfortunately - need a lot of help to get into the Hall of Fame, and he got none.
---------- Post added February-4th-2013 at 01:07 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by
Riggo-toni
Besides Ogden, Orlando Pace and Walter Jones also played during the same era, and I'm not sure you could prove Samuels was clearly superior.
Samuels may have been as good as those guys - I'm not really capable of judging minor degrees in tackle play - but all of them had much much much higher profiles. Hell, Jones was probably the second most famous Seahawk that year they made the Super Bowl.
Re: NFL Announce Hall of Fame Class 2013
so which two teams will most likely be playing in the HOF game?
Re: NFL Announce Hall of Fame Class 2013
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Originally Posted by
Cooleyfan1993
so which two teams will most likely be playing in the HOF game?
Our chances hinge on whether they expect RGIII to be able to play in it or not. If so,i could see Ravens vs Skins. If not, i could see some other combination of the young stud QBs--Luck, Wilson and Kaepernick. Vs each other or vs the Ravens. Or maybe one of them vs one of the old timers (Manning, Brady, Brees, etc)
Re: NFL Announce Hall of Fame Class 2013
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Originally Posted by
budussy
Carter was drafted in 87. Took him 7 years to break 1k yards in a season (84, 761, 604, 413, 962, 681, and then 1071)..
But look at his reception totals (39, 45 ,27, 72, and 53). The 72 catch year, he wasn't far away from 1,000 yards (962, which is respectable), and another year, he only played in 12 games. He was also playing with horrible QB's, and then when he got better players around him, he proceeded to not dip below 1,000 yards and 70 receptions until his last season there in 2001, where he still posted 73 receptions, 800 yards, and 6 TD's.
5 times, he caught over 90 balls (including 2 seasons where he went for 120+) as well as another season in which he caught 89. He had 5 straight double digit TD seasons.
Also: “Cris Carter was as productive as any receiver in the mid-90s and his numbers prove it. “He played the slot position as well as anyone. In terms of purely catching the football, I haven’t seen anybody in my time better than Cris Carter.” - Tony Dungy
“Cris is one of the best receivers to ever play our game. His hands, route running and big play ability separated him from others at his position. It was always a challenge physically and mentally to play against him.” - Deion Sanders
http://www.vikings.com/news/article-...f-95b471dcb80b
He didn't "just catch touchdowns," he caught everything, and was a great route runner. You don't get to be that successful and consistently productive at that stage of your career unless you're great at both of those.
And: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...B/BrowTi00.htm
Looks like it took Tim Brown awhile before he "Got it," as well (which isn't surprising, considering that WR is one of the most difficult positions to master quickly) so I'm not sure why you're holding that against Cris Carter, whil elevating Tim Brown, when he went through the same thing. And while he was a great player, he never once had a season in which he even came close to matching Cris Carter, across the board. Cris Carter was a great player, who earned his HOF induction. No one handed him anything. And while (to some) he isn't considered a first ballot HOF'er, his stats, his play, and his reputation among the NFL's most revered (two of which I provided quotes from) speak for themselves. He is unquestionably one of the greatest WR's to ever play this game, and he should've gotten in a lot sooner than he did. He complained, sure, but he didn't need to. His play was more than enough to get him in.
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Actually, he was lucky he was even playing at that point, but he rededicated himself and the media lapped up his story of redemption and battling addiction.
Maybe there is something that I'm missing that you could fill me in on. What was "Lapped up?" The guy was going down a dark road, and turned his life (which was infinitely more important) around, and rededicated himself, and became a great football player. That should be appluaded. He also became a team leader, and helped to mentor Randy Moss, on and off the field. Not sure why that seems to be something that you view negatively
Re: HOF proves itself a joke once again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SkinsGuy
Yeah, it is a shame that guys like Larry Allen are getting in first-ballot because of all the Cowboy bandwagon love, while players like Jacoby are STILL on the outside looking in.
Lachey will probably never make it because his career was cut short by injuries.
Not sure about Samuels, though he could get in.
I think it is time for ES and Redskins nation to start another push for some of these players like was done for Monk. :)
do you really think that Larry Allen getting in on his first ballot is a product of "Cowboys Bandwagon Love". I sure as heck don't. FWIW, as far as the other members of the Hogs not being in, I agree with you about Jacoby.
