+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 34

Thread: WP: Gitmo Grovel: Enough Already

  1. #1
    totally lambasted
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Arlington
    Posts
    2,125

    Default WP: Gitmo Grovel: Enough Already

    Gitmo Grovel: Enough Already

    By Charles Krauthammer

    Friday, June 3, 2005; Page A23

    The self-flagellation over reports of abuse at Guantanamo Bay has turned into a full-scale panic. There are calls for the United States, with all this worldwide publicity, to simply shut the place down.

    A terrible idea. One does not run and hide simply because allegations have been made. If the charges are unverified, as they overwhelmingly are in this case, then they need to be challenged. The United States ought to say what it has and has not done, and not simply surrender to rumor.


    Moreover, shutting down Guantanamo will solve nothing. We will capture more terrorists, and we will have to interrogate them, if not at Guantanamo then somewhere else. There will then be reports from that somewhere else that will precisely mirror the charges coming out of Guantanamo. What will we do then? Keep shutting down one detention center after another?

    The self-flagellation has gone far enough. We know that al Qaeda operatives are trained to charge torture when they are in detention, and specifically to charge abuse of the Koran to inflame fellow prisoners on the inside and potential sympathizers on the outside.

    In March the Navy inspector general reported that, out of about 24,000 interrogations at Guantanamo, there were seven confirmed cases of abuse, "all of which were relatively minor." In the eyes of history, compared to any other camp in any other war, this is an astonishingly small number. Two of the documented offenses involved "female interrogators who, on their own initiative, touched and spoke to detainees in a sexually suggestive manner." Not exactly the gulag.

    The most inflammatory allegations have been not about people but about mishandling the Koran. What do we know here? The Pentagon reports (Brig. Gen. Jay Hood, May 26) -- all these breathless "scoops" come from the U.S. government's own investigations of itself -- that of 13 allegations of Koran abuse, five were substantiated, of which two were most likely accidental.

    Let's understand what mishandling means. Under the rules the Pentagon later instituted at Guantanamo, proper handling of the Koran means using two hands and wearing gloves when touching it. Which means that if any guard held the Koran with one hand or had neglected to put on gloves, this would be considered mishandling.

    On the scale of human crimes, where, say, 10 is the killing of 2,973 innocent people in one day and 0 is jaywalking, this ranks as perhaps a 0.01.

    Moreover, what were the Korans doing there in the first place? The very possibility of mishandling Korans arose because we gave them to each prisoner. What kind of crazy tolerance is this? Is there any other country that would give a prisoner precisely the religious text that that prisoner and those affiliated with him invoke to justify the slaughter of innocents? If the prisoners had to have reading material, I would have given them the book "Portraits 9/11/01" -- vignettes of the lives of those massacred on Sept. 11.

    Why this abjectness on our part? On the very day the braying mob in Pakistan demonstrated over the false Koran report in Newsweek, a suicide bomber blew up an Islamic shrine in Islamabad, destroying not just innocent men, women and children, but undoubtedly many Korans as well. Not a word of condemnation. No demonstrations.

    Even greater hypocrisy is to be found here at home. Civil libertarians, who have been dogged in making sure that FBI-collected Guantanamo allegations are released to the world, seem exquisitely sensitive to mistreatment of the Koran. A rather selective scrupulousness. When an American puts a crucifix in a jar of urine and places it in a museum, civil libertarians rise immediately to defend it as free speech. And when someone makes a painting of the Virgin Mary, smears it with elephant dung and adorns it with porn, not only is that free speech, it is art -- deserving of taxpayer funding and an ACLU brief supporting the Brooklyn Museum when the mayor freezes its taxpayer subsidy.

    Does the Koran deserve special respect? Of course it does. As do the Bibles destroyed by the religious police in Saudi Arabia and the Torahs blown up in various synagogues from Tunisia to Turkey.

    Should the United States apologize? If there were mishandlings of the Koran, we should say so and express regret. And that should be in the context of our remarkably humane and tolerant treatment of the Guantanamo prisoners, and in the context of a global war on terrorism (for example, the campaign in Afghanistan) conducted with a discrimination and a concern for civilian safety rarely seen in the annals of warfare.

    Then we should get over it, stop whimpering and start defending ourselves.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060201750.html
    Last edited by Henry; June-6th-2005 at 12:46 PM.
    "Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread." --Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2
    The Role Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    midwest
    Age
    50
    Posts
    764

    Default

    You really think this article was written for liberals? Nice troll, though.

  3. #3
    The Starter
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Oviedo, Florida
    Age
    54
    Posts
    2,827

    Default

    Who uses the word "schmuck" anymore?
    "The Kurp"

  4. #4
    Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Fairfax
    Age
    33
    Posts
    16,653

    Default

    Originally posted by hokie4redskins
    The United States ought to say what it has and has not done, and not simply surrender to rumor.
    I agree the United States should come out and say what's going on. The problem is that this information is constantly "classified" or thanks to camera phones (which the DoD in the interest of truth, banned) proven inaccurate. How can we believe what they tell us when they clearly seek to hide as much as they can get away with?

    It seems to me that leaders "serving" the US beleive that they should do what they believe is best for us, and if we don't like it, hide what they've done.

    What do you think hokie4redskins, you mouth breathing right wing idiot?
    Last edited by Destino; June-3rd-2005 at 03:17 PM.

  5. #5

    Default

    Good read.

    Pretty poor subject title.

  6. #6
    The Role Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Age
    32
    Posts
    855

    Default

    2/10 for trolling. The extra point because I kinda like "schmuck". Very retro.

    http://boardwarriors.ytmnd.com
    Football fans for literacy unite!

  7. #7

    Default

    Originally posted by LC80
    You really think this article was written for liberals?
    Of course not. "Get over it" and "stop whimpering" aren't sensitive enough for the liberal lexicon.
    Quote Originally Posted by JMS View Post
    Let me caviot this entire post by saying I don't know anything about it, and I could be entirely wrong.

  8. #8
    Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Fairfax
    Age
    33
    Posts
    16,653

    Default

    Originally posted by mardi gras skin


    Of course not. "Get over it" and "stop whimpering" aren't sensitive enough for the liberal lexicon.
    You want sensitive? Show a womans back before a monday night football game.
    Last edited by Destino; June-3rd-2005 at 03:26 PM.

  9. #9
    Ring of Fame Larry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Where the Constitution grants rights to pregnant pigs, and denies them to homosexual humans
    Age
    55
    Posts
    15,637

    Default

    Here I saw "howling Schmuck" and thought this was another thread about political correctness and some football team's mascot.

    "Now the starting defense for the Howling Schmucks, . . "

    -----

    That said, as I've said on some of the other 2,000 threads about Koran abuse: It ain't torture, it ain't even "going to far". It is hurting our war effort. If it's happening.

    And the Bushies are bringing this crisis on themselves, with their insistance on secrecy.

    As I've also said: If you insist that anybody who looks behind this wall will be shot, then people are going to imagine dark and sinister things going on behind the wall. (Particularly when there's no aparant reason for 90% of the secrecy, unless it's to cover something up.)
    Last edited by Larry; June-3rd-2005 at 03:32 PM.
    We're all here because
    we're not all there

  10. #10
    The Bruiser
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Virginia
    Age
    45
    Posts
    6,931

    Default

    I liked the illumination of just exactly how far the US bends over backwards to accomodate enemy combatants... giving them their Korans and three square meals a day. Want to know what our POW's get? A knife across the throat! And the Left whines about one of our interrogators not using two hands to handle the Koran.
    Last edited by Cskin; June-3rd-2005 at 03:39 PM.

  11. #11
    totally lambasted
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Arlington
    Posts
    2,125

    Default

    Subtle jabs at liberals are Krauthammer's MO. If you're blind to the underlying undertones, that's on you.
    "Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread." --Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12
    The Pro Bowlers Johnny Punani2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Orange, Virginia
    Age
    40
    Posts
    8,401

    Default

    Originally posted by Cskin
    I liked the illumination of just exactly how far the US bends over backwards to accomodate enemy combatants... giving them their Korans and three square meals a day. Want to know what our POW's get? A knife across the throat! And the Left whines about one of our interrogators not using two hands to handle the Koran.
    Dead on...

  13. #13

    Default

    He knew that the Pentagon was going to confirm the Koran desecration stories that Newsweek posted.

    This is a pre-emptive strike. Have to be ready to change the talking point from "Newsweek is a liberal rag out to get the president" to "Well, mistreating the Koran isn't so bad."

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8090656/


  14. #14
    The Free Agent
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Salisbury, MD
    Age
    40
    Posts
    4,809

    Default

    Originally posted by Joe Sick
    He knew that the Pentagon was going to confirm the Koran desecration stories that Newsweek posted.

    This is a pre-emptive strike. Have to be ready to change the talking point from "Newsweek is a liberal rag out to get the president" to "Well, mistreating the Koran isn't so bad."

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8090656/
    Wasn't that Clinton's MO?

  15. #15

    Default

    You should edit the title: Rules state you list the title of the article and post your thoughts in the post there shrek...

    I said on Day one there were 16ish abuses to the Koran/Quran whatevah.... and of that 5 May be real... of that I say who cares...
    Said it from day one and say it now... WHO cares...

    You give them the Koran.
    You give them religiously based meals
    You give them Geneva Convention rules that dont apply in my opinion and Torture now is defined as hurting their feelings... as opposed to actual torture. Physical abuse / Sleep/mind altering abuse...

    Anywho.. was a nice trolling piece though...

+ Reply to Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts