Mountaineers national champs and skins superbowl champs

[The Evil Genius]

So did West Virginia lose badly at home to a very good Virginia Tech team or did they lose badly at home to a weak Virgnia Tech team? I would think you'd prefer to get smoked (yes, this is a burn down the town after a loss reference) by a very good team. You can't have it both ways! Are you glad that VT, Miami, & BC left? Other than having an easier schedule, those 3 teams leaving hurt the conference badly.

You know, this is the same argument moronic Cowboy fans use against Skins fans. We beat you, so we must be better.

And yet, when you point out that "we" finished with a better record and higher ranking, despite the loss, it fails to register.

[Diggs]

So did West Virginia lose badly at home to a very good Virginia Tech team or did they lose badly at home to a weak Virgnia Tech team? I would think you'd prefer to get smoked (yes, this is a burn down the town after a loss reference) by a very good team. You can't have it both ways! Are you glad that VT, Miami, & BC left? Other than having an easier schedule, those 3 teams leaving hurt the conference badly.

Badly? I was at the game and WVU had 2 unforced turnovers inside their 30, giving VT great field position. Not only that, but this game was BEFORE we inserted Pat White and Steve Slaton into their starting roles (which we haven't lost since). I would not say we lost badly. I would be lying if I said that those three traitors leaving was good for the Big East but at this point, good riddance. Let's look at the aftermath:

1) Miami is a disaster as they are no longer the power they once were, are full of thugs and bring shame to their conference

2) VT (see #1)

3) The Big East reacted swiftly and raided C-USA for a top 10 program in football and bball, a decent program in Cincy and upstart South Florida (which is in a hotbed of talent laden area).

4) The Big East has built THE best basketball conference in the land and at the same time has sustained BCS status worthy football (they meet the criteria/rules). The Big East only has 8 teams now. Let's judge them in the next few years.

BTW, who is YOUR team?

[hokie4redskins]

I suppose the "34-17/#5 ranking/we beat Georgia/scrape past #2 Big East/Slaton had not emerged yet/4th in ACC at best" debate could very well last an eternity. So I'll try to avoid the further beating of this already mutilated horse.

I admire 'Eer passion, I really do. But this passion has an underlying vehemence, which IMO, only exposes 'Eer fan insecurities about something.

I don't know if its your realization that VT has owned you for the past 10 years which results in your incessant blitherings attempting to prove once and for all that WVU is better than VT, or, if deep down in your subconscious, you know the Big East and the WVU football program is in a whole heap of trouble in the next 10 years and you're waving your flags now, while you still can.

Regardless, here are the facts.

1) WVU did have a good season and has a lot to look forward to this coming season.

2) The VT/WVU rivalry was a good one that will be missed regardless of the hatred permeating through the respective fan ranks.

3) Since 2000, VT has won 4 of the last 6 by a combined score of 161-99, including the last two to end the series.

4) The Big East is, at best, the 6th best BCS conference in the nation and could be compared to some mid-major conferences.

5) The ACC is arguably the best football conference in all the country.

6) While television and BCS contracts remain uncertain for the Big East in the coming years, VT will be flourishing in the ACC from here until eternity.

These are the facts, and they are indisputable.

Bottom line, it's nice to be a Hokie, especially in the long-term. So, good luck Eers. Enjoy your ephemeral successes while they last. You better make your run this year, because those blue chippers are going to avoid the Big East like the plague in the next ten years, regardless of the "genius" that is RichRod.

[Diggs]

I suppose the "34-17/#5 ranking/we beat Georgia/scrape past #2 Big East/Slaton had not emerged yet/4th in ACC at best" debate could very well last an eternity. So I'll try to avoid the further beating of this already mutilated horse.

I admire 'Eer passion, I really do. But this passion has an underlying vehemence, which IMO, only exposes 'Eer fan insecurities about something.

I don't know if its your realization that VT has owned you for the past 10 years which results in your incessant blitherings attempting to prove once and for all that WVU is better than VT, or, if deep down in your subconscious, you know the Big East and the WVU football program is in a whole heap of trouble in the next 10 years and you're waving your flags now, while you still can.

Regardless, here are the facts.

1) WVU did have a good season and has a lot to look forward to this coming season.

2) The VT/WVU rivalry was a good one that will be missed regardless of the hatred permeating through the respective fan ranks.

3) Since 2000, VT has won 4 of the last 6 by a combined score of 161-99, including the last two to end the series.

4) The Big East is, at best, the 6th best BCS conference in the nation and could be compared to some mid-major conferences.

5) The ACC is arguably the best football conference in all the country.

6) While television and BCS contracts remain uncertain for the Big East in the coming years, VT will be flourishing in the ACC from here until eternity.

These are the facts, and they are indisputable.

Bottom line, it's nice to be a Hokie, especially in the long-term. So, good luck Eers. Enjoy your ephemeral successes while they last. You better make your run this year, because those blue chippers are going to avoid the Big East like the plague in the next ten years, regardless of the "genius" that is RichRod.

I'll let that "what if" crap go with the WVU/VT games. You mentioned that VT has the better of the series since 2000 or something. That's fine, we were in the transition phase of switching over from Don Nehlen to Rich Rod's regime. And if we're talking who owns who, WVU still owns the series. If you know your Big East/VT history, you'd know that WVU drove the effort behind the Big East to extend a helping hand to VT to join the Big East. Beamer modeled his program after Nehlen, but that's another story.

Will the Big East and WVU be in trouble? Big East, maybe. But that's only due to the inevitable split of the football and bball schools. WVU will be just fine. They have great tradition (most football wins in D1A for a team w/o a championship), rabid fan following, and it will stay that way. The only thing that hurts WVU is the state's less than stellar population (or lack thereof). How you could compare WVU, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, etc. to "other mid-major" conferences is laughable. The WAC and Mountain West et al maybe have one "bcs buster" every year or two. The Big East is a viable conference now (meets the criteria for BCS status) and will ONLY GET BETTER. This is the infancy stage of the the "new" conference and it STILL prospered. What will happen 5 or more years from now? Who knows, we'll worry about that then. Regardless, the immediate future looks bright for WVU!

BTW, thanks for the props 'bout our passion. We love our own and will defend our name like none other. I also support my Skins just as diehard.

[The Evil Genius]

I would imagine that if WVU were to reach the National Conference Game it would get serious look again from the Big 10 (really 11).

Not that it would actually lead to an invite - but winning (or even playing in National Championship games) garners a lot of attention (including recruits) from other conferences.

[The Evil Genius]

I don't know if its your realization that VT has owned you for the past 10 years which results in your incessant blitherings attempting to prove once and for all that WVU is better than VT, or, if deep down in your subconscious, you know the Big East and the WVU football program is in a whole heap of trouble in the next 10 years and you're waving your flags now, while you still can.

Do you realize how much you sound like Cowboy fans who make that argument against the Skins? Football, like all sports, is about as matchup as it is about talent. Is their a big difference in talent between VPI and WVU? No. Rather, Beamer (and his staff) have found a way to beat WVU consistently.

As a WVU fan, there is no shame losing to a rival such as VPI.

[EersSkins05]

Ok, we'll go point for point

I suppose the "34-17/#5 ranking/we beat Georgia/scrape past #2 Big East/Slaton had not emerged yet/4th in ACC at best" debate could very well last an eternity. So I'll try to avoid the further beating of this already mutilated horse.

Agreed.

I admire 'Eer passion, I really do. But this passion has an underlying vehemence, which IMO, only exposes 'Eer fan insecurities about something.

Agreed. But the insecurities don't have anything to do with the football team. The insecurities stem from the jokes, the slights, etc. that West Virginians catch constantly. Personally, I'm not bothered by them (I just immediately think the guy perpetuating the stereotype is an *******... lol) But I know many do.

I don't know if its your realization that VT has owned you for the past 10 years which results in your incessant blitherings attempting to prove once and for all that WVU is better than VT, or, if deep down in your subconscious, you know the Big East and the WVU football program is in a whole heap of trouble in the next 10 years and you're waving your flags now, while you still can.

Again, I don't know what financial insecurities you're talking about. WVU has a Top 5 ranked football team, a bball team that's been to the sweet 16 or beyond two years in a row, two of the hottest coaches in the country, and precisely ZERO problems selling tickets to a sporting event containing either of those teams. (It's why we always get the benefit of the doubt with bowl games- everyone knows we travel.) The TV revenue is streaming in from nationally televised ESPN games, even if they're being played at unconventional times.

Also, it may do you some good to realize that in the ESPN 50 States in 50 days poll, VT ranked third on WVU's list of rivals, behind Marshall and Pitt. Southern WV is into the rivalry- the rest of the state isn't.

Regardless, here are the facts.

1) WVU did have a good season and has a lot to look forward to this coming season.

2) The VT/WVU rivalry was a good one that will be missed regardless of the hatred permeating through the respective fan ranks.

3) Since 2000, VT has won 4 of the last 6 by a combined score of 161-99, including the last two to end the series.

4) The Big East is, at best, the 6th best BCS conference in the nation and could be compared to some mid-major conferences.

5) The ACC is arguably the best football conference in all the country.

6) While television and BCS contracts remain uncertain for the Big East in the coming years, VT will be flourishing in the ACC from here until eternity.

These are the facts, and they are indisputable.

Well, hello Smilin' Jack Ross. I agree with points 1,2,and 3. Although the Big East could be considered on par with the Pac 10 this year, I realize that it's not at the level of the ACC/SEC/Big10/Big12. But to say that mid-major conferences are comparable is flat out ignorant. Show me a mid-major with two teams in the top 10 (and I'll guarantee you that the rest of the teams aren't on par with Pitt/Cuse/Rutgers etc.)

Agree w/ 5.

6- Again, there is no uncertainty with the Big East's BCS contract. There never has been. There never will be. The only uncertainty exists in the minds of those who keep leaning on this idea as a crutch to assail the Big East. By every known measure of success with the BCS, the Big East is completely secured in its BCS standing. Show me one indication from a reputible source otherwise, or stop bringing up this non-fact.

Bottom line, it's nice to be a Hokie, especially in the long-term. So, good luck Eers. Enjoy your ephemeral successes while they last. You better make your run this year, because those blue chippers are going to avoid the Big East like the plague in the next ten years, regardless of the "genius" that is RichRod.

Yeah, the blue chippers are going to avoid the Big East like a plague. That's why Pitt, Louisville, and Syracuse had top 25 classes last year, a list that WVU didn't appear on b/c of the aforementioned 14 available scholarships.

Regardless of your opinion as to WHY Louisville and WVU are top 10 teams, you don't think a few players might like to play for a top 10 team guaranteed to go to an awesome bowl with plenty of media attention every year owing to the fact that the league is primarily located in the area with the most dense population centers in the country?

To close, please note that not once did I take a shot at the Hokies or the ACC in this post or my last. Hopefully you'll come to realize that the Big East bashing is mere posturing by the fans of the teams that jumped ship to make up for the realization that the teams left in the conference seem to be catching a good deal of national attention.

"Your conference sucks. Look at ALL we have over here! We're doing better than ever... No, stop looking at them, media! Their conference is terrible! Their schedule is weak! They're going to get killed in the Sugar Bow.... It was one lucky win! Look at the whole conference! It's much better over here, see? They better enjoy it while it lasts!"

[Inxsive]

Badly? I was at the game and WVU had 2 unforced turnovers inside their 30, giving VT great field position. Not only that, but this game was BEFORE we inserted Pat White and Steve Slaton into their starting roles (which we haven't lost since). I would not say we lost badly. I would be lying if I said that those three traitors leaving was good for the Big East but at this point, good riddance. Let's look at the aftermath:

1) Miami is a disaster as they are no longer the power they once were, are full of thugs and bring shame to their conference

2) VT (see #1)

3) The Big East reacted swiftly and raided C-USA for a top 10 program in football and bball, a decent program in Cincy and upstart South Florida (which is in a hotbed of talent laden area).

4) The Big East has built THE best basketball conference in the land and at the same time has sustained BCS status worthy football (they meet the criteria/rules). The Big East only has 8 teams now. Let's judge them in the next few years.

BTW, who is YOUR team?

Losing by 17 at home if your as good of a team as you say you are is a bad loss. You can make all the excuses you want. So what if this was before you inserted White and Slaton, sounds like bad coaching not to have your best players in the linup in the first place. Keep telling yourself Cinci and South Florida are improving your conferences football quality. I don't which would be worse, saying that when it's not true or the fact that those two teams would actually improve the conference. If I'm not mistaken, I don't think South Florida recently moved to their current location. Being in a 'hotbed of talent' hasn't done them much good to date. Are you honestly telling me that if WVU had gotten an invite to the ACC they wouldn't have gone? If they had gone you would have been unhappy? As much as I dislike Miami your characterization of them being a disaster is ridiculous. They would be at the top of the big east with WVU if they played there still. There are thugs in every program, I agree Miami has more than most. VT got rid of their starting QB because he was a thug. How many programs would do that? Also, I seem to remember old Pacman Jones went to WVU. Wouldn't you call him a thug? I graduated from George Mason, which is not a sports power by any means(we did go further than WVU this year!). I can admit it. I've rooted for VT growing up because family and friends went there and I spent alot time visiting.

[The Evil Genius]

Pac Man/Chris Henry are thugs. Did they do thuggish things at WVU - not that I recall - which is the key difference. Henry's biggest crime was his selfishness and his inability to stop celebrating TD receptions in the end zone.

Henry saw the writing on the wall (that he would be in RRod's doghouse his senior year) and left WVU early. Pac Man saw that he was a likely 1st round choice and left for the early coin. Can't say I blame Pac Man.

That said, WVU hasn't had the trouble (or negative attention) that Marcus Vick brought VPI. It's a shame, but it does appear with Vick and Jimmy Williams recent actions, that Beamer has lost some institutional control of his program.

I only hope that Vick (and Williams on field actions) were the exception rather than the rule.

[Inxsive]

Pac Man/Chris Henry are thugs. Did they do thuggish things at WVU - not that I recall - which is the key difference. Henry's biggest crime was his selfishness and his inability to stop celebrating TD receptions in the end zone.

Henry saw the writing on the wall (that he would be in RRod's doghouse his senior year) and left WVU early. Pac Man saw that he was a likely 1st round choice and left for the early coin. Can't say I blame Pac Man.

That said, WVU hasn't had the trouble (or negative attention) that Marcus Vick brought VPI. It's a shame, but it does appear with Vick and Jimmy Williams recent actions, that Beamer has lost some institutional control of his program.

I only hope that Vick (and Williams on field actions) were the exception rather than the rule.

Come on, you don't give Beamer any respect for booting out his starting QB, especially without a blue chipper behind him?

[Diggs]

Losing by 17 at home if your as good of a team as you say you are is a bad loss. You can make all the excuses you want. So what if this was before you inserted White and Slaton, sounds like bad coaching not to have your best players in the linup in the first place. Keep telling yourself Cinci and South Florida are improving your conferences football quality. I don't which would be worse, saying that when it's not true or the fact that those two teams would actually improve the conference. If I'm not mistaken, I don't think South Florida recently moved to their current location. Being in a 'hotbed of talent' hasn't done them much good to date. Are you honestly telling me that if WVU had gotten an invite to the ACC they wouldn't have gone? If they had gone you would have been unhappy? As much as I dislike Miami your characterization of them being a disaster is ridiculous. They would be at the top of the big east with WVU if they played there still. There are thugs in every program, I agree Miami has more than most. VT got rid of their starting QB because he was a thug. How many programs would do that? Also, I seem to remember old Pacman Jones went to WVU. Wouldn't you call him a thug? I graduated from George Mason, which is not a sports power by any means(we did go further than WVU this year!). I can admit it. I've rooted for VT growing up because family and friends went there and I spent alot time visiting.

South Florida just moved up to D1A a few years ago, and just entered a BCS conference a year ago. They are located in Tampa and share their facilities with the Tampa Bay Bucs. They are getting quality recruits and will be a top 25 program soon, you'll see. Florida has some of the best athletes and USF is already stealing some from FSU and Miami (it does help telling recruits they can start right away).

I never said Cincy was a good football program, but it's a step up from Temple which the Big East booted. UCONN is a rising program with great facilities (just joined D1A a few years back as well). I never said the Big East was better after what the ACC did. I'm just saying they are surviving and (dare I say) thriving despite all the "haters" who wanted to see them fail. I have a sister and many friends that went to VT. Sure, VT beat WVU last year. But, we all know who is the better TEAM right now.

[The Evil Genius]

Come on, you don't give Beamer any respect for booting out his starting QB, especially without a blue chipper behind him?

What choice did he have? It's not like Vick wasn't a public black eye on VPI's program.

Beamer made the only choice he could, in order to save his job (in the long term), his rep, and his alumni's $'s.

[EersSkins05]

What choice did he have? It's not like Vick wasn't a public black eye on VPI's program.

Beamer made the only choice he could, in order to save his job (in the long term), his rep, and his alumni's $'s.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that an institutional decision more so than a head coach decision?

BTW, Diggs, it's worth noting that Central Florida has one of the biggest student populations in the country (I think they're 3rd, but I could be wrong.)

On a completely separate note, isn't it interesting how the VT fans on here accuse WVU fans of insecurity, while raiding a WVU-based thread with page after page of the same tired-ass "the big east sucks" rhetoric?

[Diggs]

What choice did he have? It's not like Vick wasn't a public black eye on VPI's program.

Beamer made the only choice he could, in order to save his job (in the long term), his rep, and his alumni's $'s.

Yeah, he got rid of him. But it took him too long. What Lil Mexi have, like 3 or 4 chances? Then MV1 and him STILL had the balls to say VT made the mistake. They made the right decision, they just should've done it earlier. But you are right, that Vick name is sacred in Blacksburg and MVII was doing his best to tarnish it. So much $$$$$$$$$$$$$ involved.

[Major Harris]

I am not disagreeing with you that the Big East was raided. The fact of the matter is that the top 3 teams are gone. WVU is a good program but did you expect any of the remaining team to have much of a chance to win the conference? You have to worry about Syracuse and Pittsburg when you remove the cream of the conference and they still do poorely. I mean not winning a game in the Big East, WOW! Duke is awful but 1/2 the teams in the Big East are 'Dukes.' As for TV, Conn and Rutgers don't draw well for football despite being in large markets.

I wouldn't expect people to tell you to your face that the first thing they think of is West Virginia jokes when you mention where you went to school. It's like when I read West Virginia and Education in the same sentence, you just get a little chuckle roll through your head.

where'd you go to school? just curious.

i'm sure you can chuckle all you want. your ignorance allows you to do so.