Chain of Events: If Gibbs had not brought in Brunell

[talk show host]

First of all, let me say I LOVE Mark Brunell and beleive he will take us to a superbowl before his days here are done. But i was reading a "what-if" thread at hailredskins.com and it sparked an idea for this thread.

Every action has a chain of consequences. Since signing Brunell was pretty much the first thing Gibbs did when he came back, it would be a good place to start with what I think would be a neat series of "what if" threads. When you make your speculations as to what would have happened, do so knowing that you have the benefit of hind-sight.

1. Skins don't sign Mark Brunell.
2. Since Gibbs doesnt trust Ramsey, he uses our first pick in the '04 draft to pick Rothlesberger instead of Taylor.
3. Rothlesberger performs well in 2004 and is our starting QB. We no longer need Ramsey.
4. After the 2004 season, the Skins accept Miami's offer of their 2006 1st round pick for Ramsey.
5. Skins still draft Carlos Rogers with their 2005 1st round pick. Since we don't need a QB, we don't pull any trades to move to 25 to get Campbell.
6. In 2006, the Skins have two 1st round draft picks, #16 and #22 overall. They package these two picks, and potentially a lower round pick as well, to trade up to #5 (from Green Bay) and draft LB AJ Hawk to replace Lavar Arrington.
7. Assuming all other FA signings remained the same, we use our 2006 second round pick to draft the best available CB (either by staying at #53 or trading up).

Given that scenario, we lose Brunell, Campbell, and Taylor. But we gain Rothlesberger, AJ Hawk, and a starting CB.

In evaluating this scenario, keep in mind that Brunell won't be starting for too many more seasons, Taylor may be going to Jail, and AJ Hawk hasn't proven anything in the NFL yet. So what do you think about that "what-if" scenario?

And what other scenarios do you think could have happened, had we not signed Brunell?

[SB33]

No way Gibbs Picks a first year quaterback. If the Skins don't sign Brunell, then he would have picked up another vetern QB.

If the Skins had rated Rothlisberger highly, they would have picked him over Taylor.

[Mooka]

Gibbs was not gonna go into the 2004 season without a veteran QB. I doubt he'd go with Patrick and a Rookie.

If we didn't go after Brunell, then maybe we would've made a play for Brain Griese.

[WeownU]

The chain of events described above is a reach, but I"ll play anyway.

I'd say definetely take Roethlisberger, Hawk and a corner anyday of the week over

1. Brunell, who only has at best 2 more seasons left.
2. Campbell.. don't even know if he can play in this league
3. Taylor....good player, a five cent head on his shoulders though.

I think AJ Hawk will be an outstanding pro. But the clincher in this scenario is Roethlisberger. You simply must have a QB in this league if your going to prosper for any length of time. Filling the qb spot with talent is the hardest thing to do in this league, so if you get a chance to get one, you have to jump on it.

[Bhutanibeast]

The chain of events described above is a reach, but I"ll play anyway.

I'd say definetely take Roethlisberger, Hawk and a corner anyday of the week over

1. Brunell, who only has at best 2 more seasons left.
2. Campbell.. don't even know if he can play in this league
3. Taylor....good player, a five cent head on his shoulders though.

I think AJ Hawk will be an outstanding pro. But the clincher in this scenario is Roethlisberger. You simply must have a QB in this league if your going to prosper for any length of time. Filling the qb spot with talent is the hardest thing to do in this league, so if you get a chance to get one, you have to jump on it.

your correct that roethlisberger would have been huge. But without Taylor, our defense would be hurt severely. We need him back there. And your right you dont know about CAmpbell, you dont whether he would be GOOD or bad. same goes for AJ Hawk

[CPstretch]

if we didnt have sean taylor, our defense wouldnt be nearly as good as it is

[dadirtbags]

This is a tough one...knowing Gibbs...he would have gone after a Vet QB regardless of any other move..... I think the reason why he went with Brunell...he liked the idea of a lefty.....but the list of potential guys who would have been a skin at QB that year...Kurt Warner, Jeff Garcia, Vinny T..... or he would have tried to trade for a vet QB....either way...we would have had a vet at the QB position.... We snagged Cooley the year Ben was taken.....the skins did like Big Ben.....and it would have been great to have Ben as a skin...but truth be told......Ben would have sat the bench just like Campbell is doing so now...although...I have a feeling Jason will start some this year and become our starting QB if not this year....next year for sure.

It's hard to say what other picks he would have gone with....After Joe gibbs convinced Greg Williams to be our D coach....it appeared Gibbs went after D guys with FA and the draft to stack Gregs defense. I also think they wanted Champ to remain as a skin...but it didn't work out that way...so he went after a RB in clinton portis.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I'd keep Brunell (and his 6 TDs vs. Dallas last year), Campbell, and Taylor because they were all involved with our most successfull season in quite some time. A bird in the hand...

[WeownU]

your correct that roethlisberger would have been huge. But without Taylor, our defense would be hurt severely. We need him back there. And your right you dont know about CAmpbell, you dont whether he would be GOOD or bad. same goes for AJ Hawk

Taylor allows you do do some very special things on defense, sure, but I'd take the QB any day of the week.

Look at the top 4 finishers last year

Pittsburgh
Denver

Seattle
Carolina

All 4 teams had great QB play all year. Other than Palamalu for Pittsburgh, I couldn't tell you who any other safeties were on those teams without looking it up.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Taylor allows you do do some very special things on defense, sure, but I'd take the QB any day of the week.

Look at the top 4 finishers last year

Pittsburgh
Denver

Seattle
Carolina

All 4 teams had great QB play all year. Other than Palamalu for Pittsburgh, I couldn't tell you who any other safeties were on those teams without looking it up.

Good point.

However, getting great QB play and having a great QB is quite different. The Skins can have the special safey in Sean Taylor and still get great QB play from Mark Brunell if things are clicking around him.

Not one of those 4 teams you listed has a great player at QB.

[fdarugar]

Hindsight is 20/20...this type of stuff is nonsense.

If I could go back in time to about 5 years ago and make all the right moves for the Skins we would have a dynasty right now.

[National Defense]

if grandma had balls she'd be grandpa

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I love the idea for the thread but right now it makes my head hurt. Maybe cause it's 4:45pm and I'm ready to go home.
Good idea though

[Darth Tater]

talk show host,

If 1 was true, 2 would have to be false.

[TheLongshot]

2. Since Gibbs doesnt trust Ramsey, he uses our first pick in the '04 draft to pick Rothlesberger instead of Taylor.

You can pretty much stop things right there. As others have said, Gibbs wouldn't have gone in without a vet of some sort. But, also, it is hard for Gibbs to not trust Ramsey, if he doesn't even know Ramsey at that point. Really, the measure of Ramsey really starts in training camp, and Gibbs had a season to judge where Ramsey was when he made the deal to get Campbell.

Remember also that Ramsey was coming off of an injury, so someone probably needed to be brought in anyways if just for insurance. Somehow, I don't see the Skins spending a 1st round pick in that case, particularly since Gibbs likes veterans.

Jason