Black Head Coaches: Does todays wins help for future candidates in the NFL & college?

[Popeman38]

I'll use Lovie Smith as an example. I have a hard time believing that a white coach coming off a 10-6 record would have trouble getting a job. Andy Reid is coming off of TWO subpar seasons, the last being 4-12, and he wasn't out of work for a week. If he were black, does he get a job that fast? Look at the Buffalo Bills. You're telling me that Marrone is more qualified to be the coach of the Bills than Lovie Smith? What exactly did Marrone do in Syracuse that warrents him getting a HC gig in the NFL?

Marty Schottenheimer (14-2) would like a word....

[pjfootballer]

And that's another issue. It seems that when it comes to hiring a black coach, everything has to be perfect. You mean to tell me that all these positions that white coaches just got, everything was perfectly in place?

I never said that. I said that we are not privy to what goes on in an interview between the coaching candidate, the GM, the owner and other FO personnel, so it's hard to guage what type of coach they want leading their team. If it's anything like my last job interview, there is a room full of people and not just 1 on 1 like it used to be. There was male, female, black, white, big, tall, fat and thin people that interviewed me at once. And how do you know for a fact that everything has to be "perfect" for a black coach to get the job? With all that goes into the decision and the way the NFL has been dilligent in investigating and making sure everyone gets a fair shot, I'm just not sure how an NFL FO can get away with blatant racism in hiring their head coach these days. Their every move is under a microscope.

---------- Post added January-24th-2013 at 03:43 PM ----------

I truly hope I haven't offended anyone with my opinion here and it is ONLY my opinion but it just seems to me as a white person looking in that we as a society are now belittling black men by complaining every time they don't perform up to their white counterparts. Black men don't need our help. They are fully capable of competing and winning on their own. They don't need to be treated like babies. They don't need to get forced interviews with owners. They need to kick ass as a position coach, nail down a coordinator job and impress some owners with their unit. Just like everyone else. Maybe saying the failure of black coaches and GM's is the fault of the white team owners who employ 80% black players to win and fill their stadiums is actually doing more harm than good at this point.

I thought you did a very good job. Probably the best explanation I've seen.

Blantant racism? Who knows. But I do believe the NFL is predominantly a good old boys club and there is some cronyism going on.

Now see, this chaps my hide when people throw around terms like "good ole boy" club as if the owners are a bunch of southern, white, colonel sanders looking guys that have a secret handshake and have a meeting place under a castle while plotting against non whities.

[Fight4RGIII]

I heard someone on the Radio say, "This isn't the first time two brothers are coaching against eachother in the Super Bowl."

[HaveFaith]

There's a pretty extensive history of discriminatory hiring in this country that you're completely ignoring. Also if you're making a comparison to more black athletes being employed in the NBA and the NFL because they're superior athletes, you're implying (wether you intended to or not) that more white head coaches/GM's are being employed because they're superior at whatever makes a good head coach/GM. That comparison pretty much kills your entire argument.

---------- Post added January-24th-2013 at 12:09 PM ----------



More often than not blacks are just superior athletically than whites so you can't make that comparison unless you're saying whites are superior intelectually which isn't true.

Playing a little "devils advocate" here. Not picking on you personally, but trying to perhaps provoke a little thought counter to what you have expressed here in writing.

Why do you accept it as a given that "blacks are just superior athletically" yet reject out of hand that "whites are superior intellectually"?

What "proof" do you have of either being superior to the other? If you accept that the playing field is a pure meritocracy for the athelete, then why do you say that the same men employing that meritocracy, would somehow reject merit when it comes to coaching?

[Brotherz]

There's a pretty extensive history of discriminatory hiring in this country that you're completely ignoring. Also if you're making a comparison to more black athletes being employed in the NBA and the NFL because they're superior athletes, you're implying (wether you intended to or not) that more white head coaches/GM's are being employed because they're superior at whatever makes a good head coach/GM. That comparison pretty much kills your entire argument.

---------- Post added January-24th-2013 at 12:09 PM ----------



More often than not blacks are just superior athletically than whites so you can't make that comparison unless you're saying whites are superior intelectually which isn't true.

Are blacks better athletes that whites? Can we have a real conversation here or are we going to just sugar coat this like we are on Piers Morgan?

Doesn't your conclusion (with no actual argument or facts to support it) over-simplify everything just a bit?

Does the REALITY that there are more pro-level black basketball players in America than white ones despite a significant overall population advantage for white people not tell us anything?

Or are you willing to state that African Americans are physically superior to whites (currently) but just not go anywhere near anything whites might be currently superior at because its so damn taboo that we can't even discuss it?

African Americans are superior basketball players (generally of course not each and every african american is better than each and every caucasion mind you) for a myriad of reasons including genetics and environment - nature and nurture. I am simply suggesting that coaching/gm world might be very simiilar.

We want to hide and run rather than to suggest that CURRENTLY it appears white executives are out-performing black ones. People wil jump all the way to genetic intelligence disparities which cannot possibly exist or else what does it mean for us all?? Except that genetics is not so far removed from environment.

That intelligent, educated, people congregate in the same circles and therefore disproportionately get romantically involved and therefore disporportionately breed off-spring which bring forth similar intelligence and are raised by parents who value the same education they had and therefore perpetuate education in an already genetically intelligent human being is simply reality. We can deny it if we want. Or more to the point we can deny the inverse which is what really bothers us.

We can deny that many many african americans throughout some of our nation's saddest history have resorted to crime to attempt to overcome educational disadvantages that WERE the result of racism in this country. That breeding of genetically strong, fast, fast twitch individuals absolutely occurred in the 19th century. That poverty post emancipation, a drug culture, ghettos and the same phenomenon that leads educated intelligent people to procreate led to unintelligent and/or uneducated people also to do so for generations is again just reality. That better athletes arose from these primarily african american, inner city communities both from genetics and environment (to the point that many professional athletes will absolutely tell you that they "escaped the gang/ghetto life" through sports) is again just fact.

We've seen this with black QB's and we didn't want to honestly discuss it. We saw it with black head coaches and now we are seeing it with black GMs. The answer has ALWAYS been the same - we MUST if we are to be a truly free society leave no human being out BECAUSE of their skin color. However, once the field is open - it is arguably even more degrading to to give undeserving people a position BECAUSE of their skin color. Warren Moon is a pioneer not because some white owner pitied him or his race and/or followed some absurd rule that forced him to take Moon seroiusly - but because his talent, his work ethic and his pure desire to win simply could not be suppressed in a competitive environment. Donovan Mcnabb wasn't the result of some affirmative action program. He was a winner. Owners want winners.

The reality is - regardless of the historical reasons for it - both genetic, nurture, nature and everything in between there IS a disparity in competence between races in America right now. You may not like that but it doesn't make it any less true. One can look at the NBA and easily surmise that for a myriad of reasons both environmental and biological african americans are simply AT THIS POINT IN TIME superior basketball players to caucasions, asians, latinos etc. Its simply accurate.

We can say the exact same thing about the executives of the NFL. That we got to THIS point in history with a strong racist impact is beyond dispute. I would never argue that the current situation in both the NBA players and the NFL Gm/Coaches situation is not ultimately the culmination of history which definitely included racism. BUT, that is VERY different than saying that today in 2013 the 8 spaces filled by these teams were racist decisions and a systemically racist system exiting TODAY. To believe otherwise would be to start complaining that half the NBA players should be white if there was no racism. Its just not so.

[DM72]

Now see, this chaps my hide when people throw around terms like "good ole boy" club as if the owners are a bunch of southern, white, colonel sanders looking guys that have a secret handshake and have a meeting place under a castle while plotting against non whities.

Would "modern day" good old boys club be better?

[TheLongshot]

You don't even have to go as far as Lovie Smith. If the argument is they wanted a fresh face how do David Shaw and Charlie Strong not even get interviews and Marrone gets handed the job.

Marrone has pro coaching experience?

[pjfootballer]

Would "modern day" good old boys club be better?

Well, not really. It's more the term. I'm not easily offended by much, but this term sort of does it for me and I'm not southern (just live here) nor am I an owner.

[Fight4RGIII]

Charlie Strong is he 7th highest paid coach in College Football now. Nice

[Enter Apotheosis]

Donovan Mcnabb [...] was a winner.

Yeah, I don't know about that...

[DM72]

Well, not really. It's more the term. I'm not easily offended by much, but this term sort of does it for me and I'm not southern (just live here) nor am I an owner.

Let's get it straight. You don't have to be from the south and look like Colonel Sanders to be a good old boy. Yeah, the term originated in the south, but it has long since branched out.

[jly0784]

i love how when a black coach doesnt get a job, because someone (andy reid) is more qualified, every black guy throws a fit like a little baby.... if they were good they would get the job, mike tomlin, leslie frazier are prime examples.... what makes you think smith would be good in buffalo? what has he proved? he would have far less talent at every position in buffalo.... as for them bringing in that guy from 'cuse, maybe theyre trying and hoping to do what tampa, seattle, and san fran did and bring a college guy in and get results.... but i guess you want everything handed to you huh?

[Mr. Sinister]

[DM72]

i love how when a black coach doesnt get a job, because someone (andy reid) is more qualified, every black guy throws a fit like a little baby.... if they were good they would get the job, mike tomlin, leslie frazier are prime examples.... what makes you think smith would be good in buffalo? what has he proved? he would have far less talent at every position in buffalo.... as for them bringing in that guy from 'cuse, maybe theyre trying and hoping to do what tampa, seattle, and san fran did and bring a college guy in and get results.... but i guess you want everything handed to you huh?

Yeah, because that's what black people want is a handout.

Your post was ignorance at its highest.

[HaveFaith]

Are blacks better athletes that whites? Can we have a real conversation here or are we going to just sugar coat this like we are on Piers Morgan?
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Wow, you said what I would have like to have said. Only you did it way better than I could have.