Sad Story- Mexican girl KILLED by Duke University

[Buford]

Originally posted by Kilmer17
The family filed suit today and the mom has called the docs "murderers".

She also stated they didnt let her daughters organs be used for research or transplant because it was against her religious beliefs.

Nice people.

link please, I'd love to read that article.

[Kilmer17]

Im waiting as well. Lis Weihl reported it on Oreilly radio show.

[Buford]

I mean the Dr's did screw up and they should get in tons of trouble...but they are Dr's and should have insurance. They didn't MEAN to kill her.

[redman]

I've followed this from afar. Here's a couple of thoughts.

1) as a strict legal matter (ignoring for the moment how a jury might be influenced at trial by emotion) this is actually a pretty weak wrongful death medical malpractice case. Not because there wasn't a mistake - there was as there's no excuse to botch the blood type matching - but because it will very debateable that the botched surgery as opposed to the initial need to undergo double transplant of both heart and lungs was a substantial factor in causing her death. And I can't emphasize enough how complicated and dire of a situation someone must be in to have to undergo double transplant surgery at the same time. Do you realize how radical that is?

In California, she would have to prove that her statistical chances of survival in the absence of the error were greater than 50%, and that they dropped to below 50% due to the error (as opposed to some other reason) to prove "causation". An error by itself is meaningless; you must also show that the error is linked with a legally recognizeable "injury", and I've defined the California version of that link for you.

2) As with Tarhog, my initial reaction was upsetment at the University for wasting a precious set of lungs and a heart that will cause some other unknown patient will now die while waiting for them in vain. We'll never know who this patient is, but because there are far fewer replacement organs than patients who need them, you can be assured that this mistake caused the death of a patient elsewhere in the U.S. That's the major tragedy of this error.

3) The issue of payment for the surgeries has been mentioned. It's almost comical to talk about it given the terrible result. However, there's a great irony here as it relates to Duke. That university was undoubtedly footing a lot of the bill on this surgery not out of the goodness of their heart (they'll of course spin it that way) but for transplant research purposes and for positive publicity. This is possible through Duke's undoubtedly enourmous endowment and is common practice.

Everyone gets what they want: Duke gets good publicity, and the girl gets new organs, right? Well, I'm sure that there are a good number of people at Duke who are mad as hell about his mistake because they've now spent a good amount on money on a misadventure that has proved an international embarrassment.

[TheKurp]

Originally posted by Kilmer17
The family filed suit today and the mom has called the docs "murderers".

She also stated they didnt let her daughters organs be used for research or transplant because it was against her religious beliefs.

Nice people.

So where's the reference?

Frankly, I believe this to be pure unadulterated CRAP!

First of all, Jesica's mother ASKED doctors about donating her child's organs. She was told the heart and lungs could not be reused and the kidneys and liver were ruined from being on life support too long. In addition, other organs and tissues were so saturated with medications and anti-rejection drugs that they also were deemed not reusable.

Jesica's mother was also being pressured by council for the foundation created to pay for the girl's medical bills to leave the body "as is" pending the results from the autopsy.

And while we're on the subject, some of you people strive your best to cause regurgitation of my last meal.

Illegal alien causing the death of two Americans? These organs could have been used to save two American lives?

Frankly, you've done your best to reveal your true colors.

Let's get some facts straight why don't we.

1. The organs in question came from a child. This severely narrows the candidate list for these organs.

2. The transplant coordinator in possession of the lung and heart organs was having trouble finding a match for the organs. In other words, no match came up on the computer database. This prompted the coordinator to get on the phone to start calling around to area hospitals. There is a limited life on organs. They must be used within a certain timeframe or they become unusable.

3. In Jesica's case, transplant coordinators called to offer the heart to two patients. The heart was the wrong size for one, and the other was not medically ready for a transplant.

4. Jesica's doctor then asked about giving the heart and lungs to Jesica. Although she was not listed on the database as a match, the transplant coordinator, desperate to not let the organs go to waste, said OK. Here's where the error occurred.

Do me a favor. The next time you people feel the need to ramble on about ***** you know nothing about, try waiting a day or two. Then you just might save the rest of us from having a first hand look at your ignorance.

[fansince62]

Do me a favor. The next time you people feel the need to ramble on about ***** you know nothing about, try waiting a day or two. Then you just might save the rest of us from having a first hand look at your ignorance.

I actually agree. In this instance Kurp is right.

I also feel this way about all the unadulterated CRAP I have been reading on this board vis Iraq & terrorism by folks who know nothing about what is really going on. Looks like we have common ground.....go figure.....

returning to point....all the argument does mask the sad fact that a young girl died......this is terrible and we should tender some respectful silence.......

[Tarhog]

Kurp...you're gonna give yourself a nosebleed...

But some good points. You didn't address my only concern with what transpired though. Its giving this young lady a second set of organs when she almost certainly had little chance of surviving the surgery, much less long term survival...thats where I have a problem. Viable transplant organs rarely go unused. Its highly likely that 2nd set of organs was wasted.

I don't have a problem with the family's decision not to donate her organs/tissue/bone (she would still have been a candidate to donate bone and corneas) as they may have felt their poor little girl had suffered enough trauma. Thats a decision only a family can make and its highly personal.

I do have a problem with the family suing. Duke Medical did everything in their power to provide a lifesaving surgery to their daughter at no charge (a surgery she could not have obtained without benevolent action and without which she faced certain death). A mistake was made. But punishing this organization and exacting financial revenge only saps resources that can be spent for future cases. Morally, suing a group that selflessly went to every length to save your daughter's life (regardless of the mistake) is wrong in my opinion.

I do agree with your general tone that this shouldn't be politicized, and that a human being in need is a human being in need, as long as the funding for this kind of charity is not coming from US taxpayers (who have a right to know that their money is being spent on the US's own citizenry - and if not, the justification for spending it elsewhere).

[redman]

I too agree that this discussion in this thread has somehow become politicized. I don't resent anyone's efforts to get their daughter needed medical help.

As for Tarhog's point about wasting the second set of organs, I don't know enough about transplant surgeries to understand their success rates, but it strikes me that she was already a risky candidate going into the first surgery. In the event that you're right, Tarhog, about her having a very low (whatever that means statistically) chance of survival going into the second surgery, I'd be opposed to using the organs on her if there were others who could receive them. I do think that the University was doing all it could to extract themselves from an embarrassing mess, and unfortunately that might have clouded their judgement.

[phanatic]

Agreed Kilmer. Yes her mother would not allow her daughter to be a donor. How Freaking ungreatful of a wench! Excuse me, two Americans went without for this illegal alien.

Yes, the mother paid $5000 for them to be ILLEGALY smuggled into this country. Lawbreaker? Absolutely! Then they are going to complain about a mistaken blood type? Please. She should not have even been given the TWO sets of organs. Then she decides that she will now BURY her daughters organs not even considering being a donor. And now she will sue the hospital and receive millions.

HELLO PEOPLE DON'T YOU SEE WHATS HAPPENING HERE!!!!!!!!!!!! Every day 16 AMERICANS die waiting for an organ transplant. So these individuals break the laws of the U.S.A. and are allowed to move freely about the country and then end up on a donor list thus bumping someone else's child from the list. A TAX PAYING AMERICANS CHILD!!!. Stop the insanity! Don't you see what the hell is going on? If this does not stop we will become a haven for illegals seeking FREE medical treatment at the expense of the tax payers of America.

I do not have a problem with aliens receiving these life saving transplants in America, SO LONG as a U.S. citizen will not get bumped in the process. Heartless? Absolutely not. Ask yourself if you would have cared as much if it was the mother receiving the transplant. Everyone cannot be saved. Let's start with our own!!!

[fansince62]

phanatic.....this is not right.......it's distasteful in the extreme to pit lives like this against one another....and it is beneath us to think this way.......

1) The focus should be on enforcing existing immigration laws. That is a separate matter.

2) As a country blessed with resources, technology and talent....we can not turn our backs on someone when they arrive at the operating table no matter who they are or where they come from. Such a policy would be a total abortion (if you will pardon the leading phraseology).

btw....should illegal aliens be allowed to donate organs for Americans? or would other illegals recieve first priority?

[Kilmer17]

Kurp, do us all a favor and put us on your ignore list. That way you can live in the bliss of your own ignorance.

Where's YOUR reference?

The facts aren't in question.

1- SHe was an illegal immigrant
2- Her family is now suing
3- Her family would not allow the organs to be donated.

Spin it anyway you like it, when faced with facts, you will call names and engage in personal attacks and then change the argument. It's the liberal battle plan. Your leaders are proud of you.