ExtremeSkins FF Dynasty League

[ConnSKINS26]

Yup, kick it off!

[twenty-eight]

I vote yes

[ChrisCooleyFunkFactory]

sounds good CCFF, kick off the draft order talks, let's do it.

Okie Dokie...

We have a couple options here:

1- Use FF's Draft Order. This order is determined according to the playoff tiebreakers on FF. It is the final records at the end of the season and the the teams that make it to the championship are battling for the 11th and 12th picks. Advantage is that its is easy and doesnt include the playoffs so there is less incentive to tank.

Tiebreakers:
1-Best head-to-head record
2-Best division record (same division only)
3-Most average points/game
4-Hardest schedule (record)
5-Hardest schedule (points)

2-Currently we tally the record at the end of the playoffs with each team having the potential to change their draft spot by 3 spots in just two games. This encourages tanking and its tedious to make a different draft order.

3-Im not in favor of making another type of draft order that would be based more on pts scored than individual records because I think it would be a pain and ultimately pts scored is not what the purpose but to win games.

Thoughts?

[ConnSKINS26]

Don't necessarily agree. The "purpose" is to field a team that puts up points--the "games" (head-to-head matchups) you're talking about are really just arbitrary pairings of two owners' individual lineups for any given week. Matchup is 100% luck, in that way. Highest Points For is NOT luck, over a full season. Thats why rewarding (or punishing, in terms of the draft order) an unlucky, but better, team makes sense. Not that I expect this to cause any type of big change.

[twenty-eight]

Any reason why we wouldn't use option one?

[MattFancy]

Yeah I have no problem with using FF's draft order

[GOSKN5]

I agree, I cant think of a reason not to really....... but I didnt try that hard....

I just think it will make things easier, especially trades and draft order each year...

[ConnSKINS26]

I'm in for option 1 as well. Inwas just disagreeing with one point CCFF made, that's all.

[ChrisCooleyFunkFactory]

Don't necessarily agree. The "purpose" is to field a team that puts up points--the "games" (head-to-head matchups) you're talking about are really just arbitrary pairings of two owners' individual lineups for any given week. Matchup is 100% luck, in that way. Highest Points For is NOT luck, over a full season. Thats why rewarding (or punishing, in terms of the draft order) an unlucky, but better, team makes sense. Not that I expect this to cause any type of big change.

I think its a really interesting idea but I think its very fitting to have the same rules for getting into the playoffs also determine the draft order.

I agree there is alot of luck in who you face each week but i think you can say that about any sport, not just fantasy. In a head to head league, I think the key to success comes down to being consistent. Points for would make sense in a rotisserie league, IMO.

[Drop]

I'm all for using FF's order. It's makes the most sense and it helps deal with the tanking thing.

Those in favor of option one include:

CCFF
twenty-eight
Fancy
GO
Conn
myself

[f_trizzy]

I vote yes to using FF's order

[RiggosMohawk]

I think its a really interesting idea but I think its very fitting to have the same rules for getting into the playoffs also determine the draft order.

I agree there is alot of luck in who you face each week but i think you can say that about any sport, not just fantasy. In a head to head league, I think the key to success comes down to being consistent. Points for would make sense in a rotisserie league, IMO.

I will probably fail in attempting to explain my rationale for agreeing with Conn that most points is a better indicator, but here goes.

If the goal of the draft is to help the bad teams get better, sort it by points. If the goal is to help the team that missed the playoffs by the widest margin, sort it by record.

Points over a whole season minimizes your peaks and valleys, and gives the best indication of consistency. It eliminates the random luck of how much your opponent scored on that given week. It evens out the loss you had with Foster on a bye, or the week you played against Welker with 16 catches for 200 yards and 3 TDs.

Ordering the draft by W-L leads to two odd scenarios: bad teams with good W-L records that just got lucky, and good teams with bad W-L records that just got unlucky.

Ordering the draft by points leads to no odd scenarios. Outside of injuries, there's never been a good team that didn't score points. If you aren't scoring points, you aren't a good team.

One other thing - in head to head, you have no control over how much your opponent scores. In the NFL it's a valid indicator of a team's relative strength because it shows both offense, defense and special teams. In FF it's all about offense, and you have no control over how much your opponent scores. Since it's all about points scored, why not make the draft order all about points scored?

[GOSKN5]

Good trade fancy....

Tough giving up CJ especially with my RB situation, but I like my chances of getting a stud or two with 2 top 5 picks... And another at 7... Jennings completes a nice WR core as well...

CJ will bounce back this year I think and be good for your team...

[ChrisCooleyFunkFactory]

I will probably fail in attempting to explain my rationale for agreeing with Conn that most points is a better indicator, but here goes.

If the goal of the draft is to help the bad teams get better, sort it by points. If the goal is to help the team that missed the playoffs by the widest margin, sort it by record.

Points over a whole season minimizes your peaks and valleys, and gives the best indication of consistency. It eliminates the random luck of how much your opponent scored on that given week. It evens out the loss you had with Foster on a bye, or the week you played against Welker with 16 catches for 200 yards and 3 TDs.

Ordering the draft by W-L leads to two odd scenarios: bad teams with good W-L records that just got lucky, and good teams with bad W-L records that just got unlucky.

Ordering the draft by points leads to no odd scenarios. Outside of injuries, there's never been a good team that didn't score points. If you aren't scoring points, you aren't a good team.

One other thing - in head to head, you have no control over how much your opponent scores. In the NFL it's a valid indicator of a team's relative strength because it shows both offense, defense and special teams. In FF it's all about offense, and you have no control over how much your opponent scores. Since it's all about points scored, why not make the draft order all about points scored?

Appreciate your input and hear what you're saying. Your logic is very compelling.

Maybe its the catholic in me but I blame myself when I dont win as opposed to my opponent. Of course there are moments i regret decisions made long ago such as draft picks, but I think there are alot ways that an owner can improve his chances at winning in a week to week fashion that would end up lowering their chances at posting a high score.

For instance, I may chose a dependable player over a more inconsistent one that scores more points overall. Also, I think playing the IDP market effectively can really improve a score week to week but carrying so many IDPs can lower your chances at hitting it rich on a sleeper.

Then of course is the human factor, especially in dynasty, where there always seems to be players that perform well on the bench. Managers that cannot effectively win week to week cannot be rewarded with foresight but they can be rewarded with more value via the draft to hopefully make it more difficult to mismanage.

Basically, no one is trying to win the points for award, they're trying to win week to week. Therefore, I cannot accept that it is a good indicator of team performance.

By your argment, TDR's team would have worse draft picks every year because he always seems to score more than his record would indicate. Personally, I think his draft positions have been very fitting as he clearly needs help.

[Touchdown Redskins]

Sigh, I do need help. My team is the epitome of the home-run threat that isn't consistent.