What are the Pros and Cons of Libertarian beliefs?

[Buford]

This is a serious question.

Besides being an outsider party. What are the good and bad things they folks are into?

I'm reading their website but obviously that's not exactly calling it down the middle.

A little help please.

xoxo

Uncle Buford

[Buford]

Nobody has anything on this?

[Spaceman Spiff]

The Cons are that you might turn into a Ron Paul zombie.

That's all I've got.

[Riggo-toni]

Biggest reason I'm a Libertarian is because I want the gov't to cut spending. Not just reductions in the rate of growth, but actually spend a little less next year than it did this year. I was a Reagan Republican, but am completely disgusted with the big government, hyper religion frenzy of the post '92 convention GOP. I don't think the gov't should waste my tax dollars arresting and trying people for victimless crimes, such as paying for sex. I think US funds for foreign aid do as much, if not more, harm than good, and other society's actually resent our generosity - I remember sitting in a history class in Italy and listening to the professor talk about how the purpose of the Marshall Plan was to make Europe dependent on America. I think that NATO and the UN are outdated and mostly a waste of funds. I think many of the departments in our government are wasteful and unnecessary. Sure, they provide some good services, but when their costs versus their benefits are weighed in, very few are worth the expense.
The LP doesn't need to win elections to have a significant effect on American politics. Voting for a 3rd party is NOT a wasted vote. Perot never won an election, but his constant clamoring for budgetary restraint led the GOP to stress financial discipline in order to re-capture his 19% of the vote. Likewise, George Wallace's campaign influenced Nixon towards preaching toughness on crime, and William Jennings Bryant did more to make the Dems the party of gov't intervention than anyone other than maybe FDR.
The cons - well the party draws a lot of fringe supporters and candidates, like pot smokers who only join because they want to toke in peace, or anti-war protestors looking for an alternative Howard Dean.

[PeterMP]

Maybe you should state a specific view or issue. Not all libertarians believe the samething on every issue so it is hard to put them in a single category. For information on Ron Paul specifically, there have been many threads on him and his stands on the issues try looking at one of them.

[Buford]

Crime & Violence
Environment
Family Budgets
Foreign Policy
Freedom Of Speech
Gun Laws
Healthcare
Internet
Immigration
Poverty & Welfare
Privacy
Social Security
Taxes

[JMS]

This is a serious question.

Besides being an outsider party. What are the good and bad things they folks are into?

I'm reading their website but obviously that's not exactly calling it down the middle.

A little help please.

xoxo

Uncle Buford

The good things about libertairan views are mostly superficial. The Libertarians identify real problems, and then propose overly simplistic and self defeating strategies to ease those problems. The federal governemnt's budget ( 2.9 trillion dollars in 2008) it is the biggest pig trough in the world. It's the biggest monitary expenditure of any government or private organization. And thus it creates and maintains some of the largest corparate and private fortunes in the world all of which are reliant on connections and back room deals rather than based on merrit. There is no more corrupt yet legal process in the nation than government contracting. The libertarian position of reducing this ungoddly number, by attempting to erase government responsibility across the board is an alluring one, yet totally unrealistic. Fact is the government isn't the seat of all evil in the world. Fact is the government is a powerful weapon for good or ill. The libertarians wanting to fold up the government and erase much of it's responsibilities is akin to a soldier putting away is weapon because the other side uses weapons too and so weapons must be the underlying problem in warfare. Fundimentally redicoulous.

The problem is, the Libertairian position looks good only because of incompetence and corruption by administrations. The problem is ultimately severly limiting the governemnts role in regularory matters historically unquestionable helps corruption to flurish. One only has to return to the economies of the late 1800's when it was ruled by trusts and monopolies with an almost absense of the middle class to see what that type of economy yeilds. One doesn't even need to go back that far.

What happenned when California's Republican govenor deregulated energy production in that state. 1000% rate increases and wide spred market manipulation.

What happennde when Reagan deregulated the healthcare industry because he thought it was to expensive and costs were too high. Record increases double or tripple the rate of inflation for the last three decades. Resulting in the most expensive healt care system in the world which yeilds consumers poorer quality of care than Cuba, which is otherwise largely a third world country and spends about 20% of what the US does per capita.

The fact is there is no such thing as a free market industrial economy in the absense of government regulations anymore. History and current events show when left to it's own devices industrial economies yeild preditory monopolies which styfle prosperity, innovation, and harm consumers.

The libertarians are right that goverment has over stepped itself. The libertarians are right that many aspects of goverment are corrupt, and pass inflated prices back to the tax payer. The problem is libertarians don't concern themselves with holding people responsible or fixing the system. They want to blow up the system in favor of something we know historically is worse.

[GibbsFactor]

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.

We are individuals. Each one of us is different. Each one of us is unique in our own ways. This country was founded on the belief that man could succeed with limited oversight from his or her Government. Man should be free to decide which course of action he should take. If a man fails or succeeds, he did so with his own free will and his own choice at hand. Libertarianism combined with Capitalism is the ultimate in free will, freedom and liberty. If you want something, go get it. Don't sit back in endless depression believing that the system is rigged or that it is unfair. I'm a libertarian because I believe in the American dream.

We have all of these wars that are geared to end free will. The war on drugs, the war on poverty, etc... So what do we have, more drugs and poverty. People can be successful without intervention, they just need to be shown how.

[GibbsFactor]

The good things about libertairan views are mostly superficial. The federal governemnt's budget ( 2.9 trillion dollars in 2008) is the biggest pig trough in the world. It's the biggest monitary expenditure of any government or private organization. And thus it creates and maintains some of the largest corparate and private fortunes in the world all of which are reliant on connections and back room deals rather than based on merrit. There is no more corrupt yet legal process in the nation than government contracting. The libertarian position of reducing this ungoddly number, by attempting to erase government responsibility across the board is an alluring one.

The problem is, the Libertairian position looks good only because of current and past incompetence and corruption by some administrations. The problem is ultimately by severly limiting the governemnts role in regularory matters historically unquestionable helps corruption to flurish. One only has to return to the economies of the late 1800's when our economy was ruled by trusts and monopolies with an almost absense of the middle class to see what that type of economy yeilds.

The fact is there is no such thing as a free market economy in the absense of government regulations. History shown when left to it's own devices industrial economies yeild preditory monopolies which styfle prosperity, innovation, and harm consumers.

The libertarians are right that goverment has over stepped itself. The libertarians are right that many aspects of goverment are corrupt, and pass inflated prices back to the tax payer. The problem is libertarians don't concern themselves with holding people responsible or fixing the system. They want to blow up the system in favor of something we know historically is worse.

Absolute hogwash.

Libertarians explained very simply - don't run to Uncle Sam every time we have a problem.

[Larry]

I think you're going to get a lot of different answers, because

1. You've asked a really broad question
2. "Libertarian" means different things to different people

For an example of "B": I don't score as "libertarian" on a lot of "rate yourself politically" exams, because (according to the exams) you have to believe that any progressive form of taxation is Treason, or else you're not a "true" Libertarian.

To other people, "Libertarian" means "anarchist" or "Ooh, those hippies who want to legalize LSD"

Libertarian comes in many flavors. (Just like Democrat and Republican do.)

So, what you're going to get are the Pros and Cons of "My version of Libertarian".

(Got to go to lunch. I'll let you know about my version when I get back.)

[JMS]

Absolute hogwash.

Maybe you would care to be a little more specific so I could directly address your vague and unhelpful criticism. Or better yet you could re-read my post because I don't think you understand what I wrote.

Libertarians explained very simply - don't run to Uncle Sam every time we have a problem.

Libertarians go further than that. They want to tie Uncle Sam up and put him in the closet and leave consumers to the tender mercies of large corporations and trusts. Been there done that. This fundamentally doesn't work. It makes things much much worse. Deregulation didn't work in California’s energy sector in the late 1990's. It didn't work in America's healthcare industry when Reagan deregulated insurance, hospitals, and pharmaceutical industries. It's not worked historically in this country ever since the industrial revolution.



Libertarians see the government as the root of all evil in the economy, which is overly simplistic. The government has a role to play in a well run economy. That role is to ensure an even playing field and to ensure competition. In the absence of government oversight industrial economies stifle competition and thus stifle all benefits libertarians attribute to consumer choice. In the absence of government regulation, there is no consumer choice, other than to do without. For many segments of the economy that’s no choice at all. (energy, healthcare, telecommunications, pharmaceuticals, insurance, food, housing etc…. )

[jbooma]

Is this Libertarian or libertarian???

they get upset if you do not say it correctly

[SkinsHokieFan]

Individual responsibilty vs the collective irresponsibilty of the government today

America was built on individuals controlling their lives and taking responsiblity for it

Currenty America is built on a collective irresponsibilty which manifists itself with the massive government we have now

Katrina is a great example. The healthcare disaster in this country. The absurd entitlements that people our age pay for the babyboomers

I don't agree with every liberterian position. My view is probably most similar to what Riggo Toni more eloquently posted. There are many things I loved about Ron Paul's platform and others I couldn't stand

[Buford]

I think you're going to get a lot of different answers, because

1. You've asked a really broad question
2. "Libertarian" means different things to different people

For an example of "B": I don't score as "libertarian" on a lot of "rate yourself politically" exams, because (according to the exams) you have to believe that any progressive form of taxation is Treason, or else you're not a "true" Libertarian.


To other people, "Libertarian" means "anarchist" or "Ooh, those hippies who want to legalize LSD"

Libertarian comes in many flavors. (Just like Democrat and Republican do.)

So, what you're going to get are the Pros and Cons of "My version of Libertarian".

(Got to go to lunch. I'll let you know about my version when I get back.)

I appreciate it. The Wiki version isn't something I trust.

[jbooma]

The healthcare disaster in this country.

Yet everyone forgets to blame ourselves for that. Working in healthcare it is easy to see why the numbers are what they are, with over half the country overweight what do you expect.

I am for more consumer based plans which are going to hurt those who do not take care of themself or feel they have to go do a dr every time they feel pain.

The problem isn't just the system, it is also the people.