Do you really want democracy in the middle east?

[Rdskns2000]

I know one of the aftermaths of this war is the hope that American style democracy spreads throughout the middle east.


Right now if you hold elections in Pakistan, Iraq, West Bank/Gaza Strip, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and some other countries; the people will vote for a radicial Islamic government.


The irony- the country that people are using as the basis for that: Iran; the people there would probably vote for American style free democracy and seperation of religion and government.


What will really change the middle east is some resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and seeing the Iranian people overthrow an radical Islamic government that many of the Arab people want. Since Iranians have lived under this regime for 24 years; they see it isn't working.

[luckydevil]

What I want is capitalism in the middle east, but I guess thats a whole other debate.

[Tarhog]

I've never heard anyone say this was the US desire? I don't think anyone realistically expects real democracy (in the Western/American tradition) to spring up and spread. I think we are looking to help encourage moderate responsible regimes that police their own territories. I don't think its impossible to imagine real democracies in the Middle East in 50 years however. And I tend to agree that before we could expect 'good things' to result from a democracy, we'd need to see implementation of a stable economic system, a stable non-violent police force, a free press so the public actually gets some unfiltered accurate information, and the building of a responsible bureacracy to administer whatever form of government emerges. Until you have those underlying precursors of stability, democracy is at risk of becoming mob-rule, or a mouthpiece for dictators or repressive regimes.

[Art]

Skins2000,

I think you're incorrect that if allowed to vote the people in these nations would vote for a radical Islamic government. I don't disagree that the people may vote for an Islamic government, but, let's keep in mind that supposedly fundamental Islam is not the mainstrem among Muslims and therefore they wouldn't want true Islamic leadership as in Afghanistan or Iran. They wouldn't vote for a theocracy of that nature unless we're incorrect in the information supplied to us that Islam is largely a progressive religion of peace and not a backward, oppressive, wretched ball of cr@p as portrayed by radical fundamentalists. I certainly hope you're wrong in what you think.

[Rdskns2000]

Originally posted by Art
Skins2000,

I think you're incorrect that if allowed to vote the people in these nations would vote for a radical Islamic government. I don't disagree that the people may vote for an Islamic government, but, let's keep in mind that supposedly fundamental Islam is not the mainstrem among Muslims and therefore they wouldn't want true Islamic leadership as in Afghanistan or Iran. They wouldn't vote for a theocracy of that nature unless we're incorrect in the information supplied to us that Islam is largely a progressive religion of peace and not a backward, oppressive, wretched ball of cr@p as portrayed by radical fundamentalists. I certainly hope you're wrong in what you think.

Since I'm a Muslim, I'm peaceful. Many people of the Muslim world though have been conditioned for radical version of Islam. It's going to take a generation to change that view.


The average Muslim Joe may not want all that entails in a radical Islamic government but once you put an Islamic government in; radical elements could control the power structure.


Iraq- majority is Shiite- no doubt Iranian clerics are flexing their muscles. Shiite's are little wierd- beatting your heads till it bleeds.

Pakistan- the masses are increasing favoring the radical Islamic teachings-partly due in part to Saudi Arabians setting up Madrasas(Religious Schools) that preach an extreme form an Islam.



The average Muslim Joe wants their lives runned by the teachings of Islam. So the belief is that they best way to do that is to install a Islamic government. Thing is, the problem is, radical elements would then sieze control of the power structure and impose things that even the average Muslim joe wouldn't want.

Many Muslim people want an Islamic government but they don't know that once the vote one in, it will be a radical one.

I'll probably should've stated my point a little better. Sorry about that. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

Many Muslim people view Iran as a model though remember they aren't educated on what really goes in Iran. The see an Islamic run government as the solution to their lives but they aren't educated as to what a real Islamic government would entail.

They will vote for a radical government- though they won't know that. They will vote for an Islamic Government but will end up with a Radical Islamic Government controlling their lives.

They are in fact being brainwashed by these Madrasas and it's going to taking time to undo that.



That's why I don't why we haven't pressured Saudi Arabia- which is more responsible for this who culture and terrorism than we know.

[fansince62]

Yes...we want democratic institutions....

[Rdskns2000]

Wow, this old post of mine is sure relevant now.

[Bang]

And I still think Art was / is right

~Bang

[Madison Redskin]

I want democracy to flourish in the Middle East. I believe that oppressive dictatorships tend to radicalize people. While it seems like a good idea to support pro-Western dictatorships in the Middle East, I think history has proven that hasn't endeared the U.S. to many Middle Easterners. That approach is counterproductive, even if it seems like it offers security in the short-term.

[ixcuincle]

Spread that democracy around the Middle East, why shouldn't the people have a voice?

Enough of these rigged elections or these tyrants who take over for 30 or 40 years while the people are robbed from any gain at all. You know Libya remains poor while Kadaffi or however he spells his name (his name has like 50 different spellings) hogs all the oil money

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I want democracy to flourish in the Middle East. I believe that oppressive dictatorships tend to radicalize people. While it seems like a good idea to support pro-Western dictatorships in the Middle East, I think history has proven that hasn't endeared the U.S. to many Middle Easterners. That approach is counterproductive, even if it seems like it offers security in the short-term.

Yup. What exactly has the old way gotten us? Failed states, dictators and poverty have never equaled anything good throughout history.

Plus living up to your ideals is normally a pretty good thing to do

[Yusuf06]

I want democracy to flourish in the Middle East. I believe that oppressive dictatorships tend to radicalize people. While it seems like a good idea to support pro-Western dictatorships in the Middle East, I think history has proven that hasn't endeared the U.S. to many Middle Easterners. That approach is counterproductive, even if it seems like it offers security in the short-term.

This.

We've supported dictators in the M.E. for years because of the perception that they were holding radical Islam at bay. Ironically in the end all that did was to help fan the flames of what we were trying to avoid, i.e. the rise of Islamic radicalism. The recent massive uprisings in the M.E. are more about the desire of young, disaffected, college educated Muslims to be able to live decent, prosperous lives than it is about Islam, imposing sharia or any of the other buzzwords used to push the buttons of people in this country.

Certainly Islamic extremists might find a way to hijack this unrest to implement their agenda. However radical Islam is not what the masses of Arabs/Muslims are seeking and it's not what caused the recent revolts. If we don't take advantage of this opportunity to help them get what they want, i.e. economic prosperity, we'll have wasted a valuable opportunity to stabilize the M.E. for the long-term.

[shk75]

Rant on/

OK people who are going to ****ing say that the reason for overthrowing Iraq was to spread democracy in the region and then go and say that we do not want democracy now because we are afraid of who they will elect...**** you! Who the **** are you to tell them who they can and cannot elect. Who the **** are you to say you know what is better for them. Let them elect their own ****ing leaders we are not any better then them they are humans just like us and have the right to decide their own fate. Would you want another nation to come here in 2012 and tell us who we can and cannot ****ing elect. I am sorry but this **** makes me so damn mad. Let them elect whoever the **** they want as long as the elections are not rigged.

Rant off/

[twa]

You want freedom?...fight for it,it is not a gift...nor cheap

[Burgold]

as long as the elections are not rigged.

Rant off/

Big if. I want democracy in the region if it's a "real" democracy. Not a dictatorship or theocracy disguised as a democracy like in Iran. If it's a true democracy with checks and balances and a way to hold periodic peaceful elections to remove an unpopular government and illicit change... then I'm all for it even if they elect leaders whose philosophies make me cringe.