+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33

Thread: NYT: Big government is ahead

  1. #1
    Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Falls Church Va
    Age
    31
    Posts
    18,754

    Default NYT: Big government is ahead

    Its already here Mr. Brooks. It is just going to be compounded, quite a bit

    And I disagree with the notion of a backlash. This will be what Americans want and vote for. Soon to be President Obama will have the political skill to use the stigma of President Bush as a foil for at least 2 election cycles

    By then, the damage will be done. We'll just have signed off on it

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/14/op...in&oref=slogin

    Big Government Ahead

    By DAVID BROOKS
    We’re in the middle of a financial crisis, but most economists say there is a broader economic crisis still to come. The unemployment rate will shoot upward. Companies will go bankrupt. Commercial real estate values will decline. Credit card defaults will rise. The nonprofit sector will be hammered.
    By the time the recession is in full force, Democrats will probably be running the government. Barack Obama will probably be in the White House. Democrats will have a comfortable majority in the House and will control between 56 and 60 seats in the Senate.
    The party will inherit big deficits. David Leonhardt, my colleague at The Times, estimates that the deficit will sit at around $750 billion next year, or five percent of G.D.P. Democrats had promised to pay for new spending with compensatory cuts, but the economic crisis will dissolve pay-as-you-go vows. New federal spending will come in four streams.
    First, there will be the bailouts. Once upon a time, there were concerns about moral hazard. But resistance to corporate bailouts is gone. If Bear Stearns and A.I.G. can get bailouts, then so can car companies, airlines and other corporations with direct links to Main Street.
    Second, there will be more stimulus packages. The first stimulus package, passed early this year, was a failure because people spent only 10 percent to 20 percent of the rebate dollars and saved the rest. Martin Feldstein of Harvard calculates the package added $80 billion to the national debt while producing less than $20 billion in consumer spending.
    Nonetheless, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi promises another package, and it will pass.
    Third, we’re in for a Keynesian renaissance. The Fed has little room to stimulate the economy, so Democrats will use government outlays to boost consumption. Nouriel Roubini of New York University argues that the economy will need a $300 billion fiscal stimulus.
    Obama has already promised a clean energy/jobs program that would cost $150 billion over 10 years. He’s vowed $60 billion in infrastructure spending over the same period. He promises a range of tax credits — $4,000 a year for college tuition, up to $3,000 for child care, $7,000 for a clean car, a mortgage tax credit.
    Fourth, there will be tax cuts. On Monday, Obama promised new tax subsidies to small business, which could cost tens of billions. That’s on top of his promise to cut taxes for 95 percent of American households. His tax plans aren’t as irresponsible as John McCain’s, but the Tax Policy Center still says they would reduce revenues by $2.8 trillion over the next decade.
    Finally, there will be a health care plan. In 1960, health care consumed 5 percent of G.D.P. By 2025, it will consume 25 percent. In the face of these rising costs, Obama will spend billions more to widen coverage. Obama’s plan has many virtues, but the cost-saving measures are chimerical.
    When you add it all up, we’re not talking about a deficit that is 5 percent of G.D.P., but something much, much, much larger.
    The new situation will reopen old rifts in the Democratic Party. On the one side, liberals will argue (are already arguing) that it was deregulation and trickle-down economic policies that led us to this crisis. Fears of fiscal insolvency are overblown. Democrats should use their control of government and the economic crisis as a once-in-a-lifetime chance to make some overdue changes. Liberals will make a full-bore push for European-style economic policies.
    On the other hand, the remaining moderates will argue that it was excess and debt that created this economic crisis. They will argue (are arguing) that it is perfectly legitimate to increase the deficit with stimulus programs during a recession, but that these programs need to be carefully targeted and should sunset as the crisis passes. The moderates will stress that the country still faces a ruinous insolvency crisis caused by entitlement burdens.
    Obama will try to straddle the two camps — he seems to sympathize with both sides — but the liberals will win. Over the past decade, liberals have mounted a campaign against Robert Rubin-style economic policies, and they control the Congressional power centers. Even if he’s so inclined, it’s difficult for a president to overrule the committee chairmen of his own party. It is more difficult to do that when the president is a Washington novice and the chairmen are skilled political hands. It is most difficult when the president has no record of confronting his own party elders. It’s completely impossible when the economy is in a steep recession, and an air of economic crisis pervades the nation.
    What we’re going to see, in short, is the Gingrich revolution in reverse and on steroids. There will be a big increase in spending and deficits. In normal times, moderates could have restrained the zeal on the left. In an economic crisis, not a chance. The over-reach is coming. The backlash is next.
    The hotter the heat, the harder the steel, no pressure no diamonds, we compete, we win

    We are the next decade of the Washington Redskins

  2. #2
    No New Threads Burgold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD USA
    Age
    44
    Posts
    12,801

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    Where's he been? Government's taking over business' left and right and been inserting itself into our private lives for years now.

  3. #3
    Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Age
    26
    Posts
    10,051

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    way to go GOP... **** things up so bad that one pole is going to have complete power and trust, that's never a good thing, and in this case it is completely the fault of the GOP.

    Not saying financial crisis is the GOP's fault, but their inability to have a genuine, competent, and politically viable party at this point in time is due to selling themselves out for power. What did they do with that power? Not a damn thing other than masturbatory self indulgence... now the leftists are going to take over. And while I believe the country will head to ruin at a slower pace with leftists as compared to rightists it doesn't appear that either side can save us until there is a competition between the parties based on competence not political hackery.

    Why are we in this situation? because GOP supporters that should have known better, the ones that have the wisdom and reason that the Palindrones don't have ought to have directed the party's direction, instead they gave way to the wing nuts because the wing nuts come out and vote in droves when they are scared.
    Last edited by Prosperity; October-15th-2008 at 08:14 AM.
    Formerly known as "Liberty"

  4. #4
    Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Falls Church Va
    Age
    31
    Posts
    18,754

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Burgold View Post
    Where's he been? Government's taking over business' left and right and been inserting itself into our private lives for years now.
    I think Brooks sees the next push, as he states, towards much more European oriented policies, which is more center left, then our mostly center right policies.

    I agree, big government has been here for years (NLCB, Medicare Part D, major farm subisides, steel tarrifs) and is now only going to expand, in a major way
    The hotter the heat, the harder the steel, no pressure no diamonds, we compete, we win

    We are the next decade of the Washington Redskins

  5. #5
    Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Falls Church Va
    Age
    31
    Posts
    18,754

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty View Post
    way to go GOP... **** things up so bad that one pole is going to have complete power and trust, that's never a good thing, and in this case it is completely the fault of the GOP.

    Not saying financial crisis is the GOP's fault, but their inability to have a genuine, competent, and political viable party at this point in time is due to selling themselves out for power. What did they do with that power? Not a damn thing other than masturbatory self indulgence... not the leftists are going to take over.

    Basically. I think part of it is just a weird timing of events as well

    If Bush had this situation in Iraq in 2006, I doubt we see the Democrat landslide

    If the economy of late '06 was still going now, I doubt we see the impending Democrat landslide, and this POTUS race is much closer

    Funny how it works out.

    In the end though what is going to happen is one party rule for at least 4 years, if not for at least a decade. My guess is we are easily looking at 8-12 years of it, as long as the memory of President Bush is in the heads of American voters
    The hotter the heat, the harder the steel, no pressure no diamonds, we compete, we win

    We are the next decade of the Washington Redskins

  6. #6
    Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Age
    26
    Posts
    10,051

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    yes SHF, if the state of the union was in MUCH MUCH better shape then the GOP wouldn't be blamed

    but the financial crisis was inevitable, and the 05 06 blood shed was necessary to have the 07 and 08 relative calm, so it's not just timing, though timing has definitely also been horrible.
    Formerly known as "Liberty"

  7. #7
    No New Threads Burgold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD USA
    Age
    44
    Posts
    12,801

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty View Post
    way to go GOP... **** things up so bad that one pole is going to have complete power and trust, that's never a good thing, and in this case it is completely the fault of the GOP.
    I don't know that that's necessarily true. Some of the best periods of American growth and success came under one party. FDR post WWII, for one. I think we've grown so mistrustful and cynical about government (for very good reasons) that we think obstructionist friction is the only hope we have against our government. And while I would agree that power corrupts... right now, we need a period of hard work and cooperation to move forward. Having one party, with all the burden of repsonsibility might just be a very useful thing. That way they have no one to blame. That's the plight the Republicans are in now. They try to make it the Dems fault, but that doesn't wash, that dog doesn't hunt, and a bunch of other cliches. They had the keys to the kingdom, locked the other party out, and even threatened to go "nuclear." So now, the blame is squarely and fairly at their feet.

    But it can go the other way too. Government can work and be effective at least for short spurts.

    The good thing is that we have elections to check the government once they go bonkers. The bad thing is we don't always catch the government in time.

  8. #8
    Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Falls Church Va
    Age
    31
    Posts
    18,754

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Burgold View Post
    I don't know that that's necessarily true. Some of the best periods of American growth and success came under one party. FDR post WWII, for one. I think we've grown so mistrustful and cynical about government (for very good reasons) that we think obstructionist friction is the only hope we have against our government. And while I would agree that power corrupts... right now, we need a period of hard work and cooperation to move forward. Having one party, with all the burden of repsonsibility might just be a very useful thing. That way they have no one to blame. That's the plight the Republicans are in now. They try to make it the Dems fault, but that doesn't wash, that dog doesn't hunt, and a bunch of other cliches. They had the keys to the kingdom, locked the other party out, and even threatened to go "nuclear." So now, the blame is squarely and fairly at their feet.
    Obstructionist friction isn't what we should hope for, it is what our nation was inherintly designed to do by the founders

    Congress and the POTUS should check each other. Of course, when they are are run by the same people (as it was during the depression) you have no real checks

    If there is a fillibuster proof majority, well, hold on to your butts

    However it is what we voted for and will want for at least the next 8-12 years. By 2020, the R's may get a realistic shot at the Presidencey again.

    Congress is probably lost for the rest of my lifetime
    The hotter the heat, the harder the steel, no pressure no diamonds, we compete, we win

    We are the next decade of the Washington Redskins

  9. #9
    Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Age
    26
    Posts
    10,051

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    SHF you expectations are not realistic, the Democratic party was written off as dead in 2001, remember that?
    Formerly known as "Liberty"

  10. #10
    Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Falls Church Va
    Age
    31
    Posts
    18,754

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty View Post
    SHF you expectations are not realistic, the Democratic party was written off as dead in 2001, remember that?
    In 2004, I wrote off the left.

    I may be giving Dems too much credit, but I think they will be able to ride Bush like the Dems rode Hoover for 40 years, in particular if this economy implodes and Iraq turns south as we soon as we leave

    Republicans never had a full majority from 1944 to 1994 in Congress

    Democrats dominated Presidential elections from 1932-1968, with the only exception being the war hero in Ike

    For the next 40 years, I gurantee you will hear Democrats talk about George Bush, similar to how Republicans speak of Ronald Reagan

    And it will work
    Last edited by SkinsHokieFan; October-15th-2008 at 08:35 AM.
    The hotter the heat, the harder the steel, no pressure no diamonds, we compete, we win

    We are the next decade of the Washington Redskins

  11. #11
    The Bruiser GibbsFactor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Alexandria
    Age
    35
    Posts
    6,121

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    Just goes to show you how fat and lazy we have all become.

    Uncle Sam, can you scratch my back? I can't reach it.

  12. #12
    The Rookie techboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Lorton, VA
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,159

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Burgold View Post
    I don't know that that's necessarily true. Some of the best periods of American growth and success came under one party. FDR post WWII, for one.
    FDR was dead post WWII.
    "Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in."- Mark Twain

    Need a Wedding/Event Photographer? Just want to look at cool pictures of Europe? Visit my wife's website, designed by our very own Bang! Serving Virginia, Maryland, and the Washington D.C. Area

    Thinking of getting a Lab? Here are 10 good reasons to adopt your Lab from a rescue instead of buying.

  13. #13

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    FTR, Bush, a "conservative," ran the biggest government we've ever seen... and he expanded it.

    Honestly, the difference between democrats and republicans is not the size of the government - because its going to be big no matter what - the only difference is where the money goes.
    What would A World Without Lawyers be like?

  14. #14

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by SkinsHokieFan View Post
    In 2004, I wrote off the left.

    I may be giving Dems too much credit, but I think they will be able to ride Bush like the Dems rode Hoover for 40 years, in particular if this economy implodes and Iraq turns south as we soon as we leave

    Republicans never had a full majority from 1944 to 1994 in Congress

    Democrats dominated Presidential elections from 1932-1968, with the only exception being the war hero in Ike

    For the next 40 years, I gurantee you will hear Democrats talk about George Bush, similar to how Republicans speak of Ronald Reagan

    And it will work
    Similar to how republicans speak about Clinton, you mean?
    What would A World Without Lawyers be like?

  15. #15
    Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Falls Church Va
    Age
    31
    Posts
    18,754

    Default Re: NYT: Big government is ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Tulane Skins Fan View Post
    Similar to how republicans speak about Clinton, you mean?
    The better comparision would have been Jimmy Carter

    Lets be honest, that really hasn't stuck

    Hoover stuck because of the great depression. There is a HUGE difference between Hoover and Bill Clinton, and you are smart enough to recognize that

    When the economy implodes and we pull out of Iraq, the name "Bush" will stick for the next 2 generations, probably until you and I are in our late 50s to be honest

    Therefore, any hope for the foreseeable future of Republican power in Washington DC is quite frankly a joke
    Last edited by SkinsHokieFan; October-15th-2008 at 11:42 AM.
    The hotter the heat, the harder the steel, no pressure no diamonds, we compete, we win

    We are the next decade of the Washington Redskins

+ Reply to Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts