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Thread: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

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    Default Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    Interesting perspective on the size of the house of representatives from Walter Williams


    Political Monopoly Power



    The Federalist Papers, written by James Madison, John Jay and Alexander Hamilton, is the document most frequently referred to when trying to get a feel for the original intent of the framers of the Constitution. One such intention is found in Federalist 56 where Madison says, "...it seems to give the fullest assurance, that a representative for every thirty thousand inhabitants will render the (House of Representatives) both a safe and competent guardian of the interests which will be confided to it."

    Excellent research, found at http://www.thirty-thousand.org/index.htm, shows that in 1804 each representative represented about 40,000 people. Today, each representative represents close to 700,000. If we lived up to the vision of our founders, given today's population, we would have about 7,500 congressmen in the House of Representatives. It turns out that in 1929 Congress passed a bill fixing the number of representatives at 435. Prior to that, the number of congressional districts was increased every 10 years, from 1790 to 1910, except one, after a population census was taken.

    We might ask what's so sacrosanct about 435 representatives? Why not 600, or 1,000, or 7,500? Here's part of the answer and, by the way, I never cease to be amazed by the insight and wisdom of our founders: James Madison, the acknowledged father of the Constitution, argued that the smaller the House of Representatives relative to the nation's population, the greater is the risk of unethical collusion. He said, "Numerous bodies ... are less subject to venality and corruption. " In a word, he saw competition in the political arena as the best means for protecting our liberties. If Madison were around today to see today's venal and corrupt Congress, he'd probably say, "See, I told you so!"

    In addition to venality and corruption, restricting the number of representatives confers significant monopoly power that goes a long way toward explaining the stranglehold the two parties have and the high incumbent success rates. It might also explain the power of vested interest groups to influence congressional decisions. They only have to bribe, cajole or threaten a relatively small number of representatives. Imagine the challenge to a lobbyist, if there were 7,500 representatives, trying to get a majority of 3,813 to vote for this or that special privilege versus having to get only a 218 majority in today's Congress.

    Another problem of a small number of congressmen, with large districts, has to do with representing their constituents. How in the world is one congressman to represent the diverse interests and values of 700,000 people? The practical answer is they don't and attempt to be all things to all people. Thus, a congressman who takes a principled stand against the federal government exceeding its constitutional authority -- whether it be government involvement in education, business welfare and bailouts and $2 trillion dollars worth of other handouts -- is not likely to win office.

    Appealing for the votes in a district of 700,000 is a more difficult challenge than appealing for the votes in a district of 40,000 or 60,000 people. Larger sums must be raised requiring a congressman to be wealthy or raise money from vested interest groups. Who is going to give a congressman money and not expect something special in return?

    One should not be optimistic about increasing the size of Congress to make it more representative of the American people. There are powerful forces that benefit from the status quo. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac lobbyists get Congress to look the other way. Hundreds of other lobbyists get Congress to rig the market, or confer special privileges, to benefit one class of Americans at the expense of another class. I guarantee you that the vested interest groups, who now have a strong grip on Washington, at the detriment of the nation's well-being, wouldn't as easily get their way if they had to scrounge for 3,813 votes as opposed to 218.

    Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University. To find out more about Walter E. Williams and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.

    http://www.gmu.edu/departments/econo...opolyPower.htm
    Last edited by SnyderShrugged; October-16th-2008 at 05:48 PM.
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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power

    this is something that I didnt realize.

    "in 1804 each representative represented about 40,000 people. Today, each representative represents close to 700,000. If we lived up to the vision of our founders, given today's population, we would have about 7,500 congressmen in the House of Representatives. It turns out that in 1929 Congress passed a bill fixing the number of representatives at 435. Prior to that, the number of congressional districts was increased every 10 years, from 1790 to 1910, except one, after a population census was taken."
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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    Did I miss his answer to "why 435"? It certainly seems that our system is out of whack. I really think that smaller districts would significantly alter, if not completely eliminate, the 2 party system

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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    The House should be doubled, at a minmum

    Will made this argument a few years ago
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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redskins Diehard View Post
    Did I miss his answer to "why 435"? It certainly seems that our system is out of whack. I really think that smaller districts would significantly alter, if not completely eliminate, the 2 party system


    That is a very good question. I honestly dont know the rationale for the 435 limit either.

    shf, I also hadnt heard that Will (George, right?) proposed this before either. good to know
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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    7000?

    Imagine the salary and health insurance implications. Representatives make 169000 a year.


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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    Actually, I've been advocating for some time for something that a Professor once explained to me in a class called proportional representation.

    Observe that the US Constitution doesn't mandate that Congressmen be selected on the basis of winner-take-all districts (which are drawn in openly partisan fashion for the specific, stated purpose of getting the maximum representation in Congress for whichever party holds the slimmest majority in a state). It merely specifies the method of determining how many Representatives a State has.

    I use the example of Florida, which currently has (I think) 26 Representatives.
    In a proportional system, there are no districts. Instead, in Florida, the Republican Party puts 26 names on a list. (And so does every other Party.)

    The voters vote for their Party.

    Each party then gets to send a number of people determined by what percentage of the people voted for the Party.

    If 60% of Florida voted Republican, then the GOP sends the top (60% * 26) = 16 names on their list. If the other 40% voted D, then the Dems send the first 10 names from their list. All 26 then represent Florida.
    Now I know the concept of voting for Party rather than individuals sounds really scary, but here's the effect that such a system has.

    It eliminates the "entry costs" for third parties.

    To use the example of the Libertarian Party, under the existing system, in order for the LP to get one person in Congress, they have to get 51% of the vote in one district. (A district which was deliberately designed to favor one particular Party.)

    But under a proportional system, all the Libertarians have to do, to get a toe-hold in DC, is to get 4% of the vote in Florida. 3% would likely be enough. (And if they can get 7% of Florida, then they get two seats in Congress.)

    Because of this, countries that use proportional voting have a lot more Parties. (He mentioned one country that had over 40 Parties in their legislature.) Many of these Parties have very similar platforms. I have no doubt whatsoever that if Florida had such a system, that there would be a "We're just like the Republicans, but we're pro-choice" Party. And a "Democrats opposed to gun control" Party. And dozens of others.

    IMO, one effect of such a system would be to eliminate the personal smear from the campaign landscape, and require people to vote based on Party platforms.

    Another effect would be that voters would have dozens of perfectly viable choices on election day instead of the current "one, maybe two choices" system.

    It would also eliminate the current phenomenon of the abandoned election: One where, when Party X gets 56% of the vote, both Parties abandon the district. Under proportional system, whether your Party has 60% of the vote or 4%, your Party is always just another 4% (or possibly 2%, depending on rounding) away from gaining (or losing) another seat.

    (I also would HOPE tha it would cut down on pork so much. At the very least, the Florida delegation would be steering money to Florida as a whole, rather than targeting the NE area of Jacksonville.)

    (And I really like the idea of the Libertarians getting 2-3 seats in Congress, and playing "tie breaker" on a lot of 50-50 issues.)

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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    I'm all for it.

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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    Larry, that may be one of the most brilliant ideas ever.

    Somewhere though I am sure there is a catch. But allowing many parties would be terrific
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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    I like these ideas...

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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    I don't believe in voting for parties, but I would prefer it if we truly did have proportional representation in that we vote for a bunch of reps at one time and they get office based on votes individuals received. this winner-take-all bull**** just ensures the Republicans and Democrats keep their chokehold on our political system.

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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    I believe the 435 is the number of people that fit into the HR chamber in the capitial (that's what I was told once by a teacher).

    I have personally believed we should up the number of people in the HR for a while.

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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    Sorry. When I think of increasing the number, what I imagine is four thousand, Congressmen, all of them demanding pork in their districts.

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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    I agree that we need more congressional representatives.

    I think it would be much more difficult for them to stuff in pork, because with smaller consitutencies, they would hear more from people and I don't believe most people want pork.

    As far as the party idea above, I think what would happen if that was in play is that you would see the smaller parties get hijacked by the Dems/Reps to put their own people at the top to get elected. Back in the 1800's we had somewhat a similar situation where politics were controlled by local party bosses and machinery. I think that the suggestion would simply bring a return to that model.
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    Default Re: Political Monopoly Power (idea to increase size of House of reps)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry View Post
    Sorry. When I think of increasing the number, what I imagine is four thousand, Congressmen, all of them demanding pork in their districts.


    I'd tend to agree with williams in that the job of a lobbyist would be much tougher to accomplish. More mouths to feed to get their pet programs and pork passed.
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