Premium Seats

[madredskinsfan]

I have been trying to cancel or at least shorten the length of my premium seat committment due to health conditions and financial hardships. I have contacted the premium seat ticket office several times about this and here are some of their responses:

"Fans cannot cancel their committment/contract/agreement/license (CCAL) at any time. The team is under no obligation to work with fans to either cancel or reduce the term of their CCAL. The team is in need of the CCAL funds both short term and long term. "

"If you fail to pay your annual invoice, we will apply penalties and interest, report the situation to credit bureaus, prevent you from using your seats and possibly take legal action against you in Prince Georges County Court."

"Even if you die, the team fully expects your estate to continue to make payments under the terms of the CCAL. Death does not release you from your obligation."

"While we have a wait list for regular seats of over 200,000, we have no such list for premium seats. We do not assist fans who wish us to offer to the next interested premium seat person their current seats. It is up to the fan to either sell or transfer ownership on their own."

If you have tried to cancel or shorten your CCAL and have similar experiences in dealing with the premium seat ticket office, please post here.

I am trying to sell my seats through several different avenues, but right now, especially in these current economic times and with overpriced premiun seats, that is going to be difficult at best. Certainly some individual games (like Dallas, Philly and NY) can command high prices, but many other games, including the pre-season games, will not sell for face value.

Other sports teams like the Yankess and Mets, have reduced the price of their non-selling premium seats. The Redskins should do the same. I would say that if the price of premium seats were halved, they all would be sold. Instead, at their current price levels I predict at least 30% or more of these types of seats will be unsold in 2009.

[LegionOfDoom]

Sorry to hear that about your situation. I have never heard of 1 person ever shortening their contract. I know people who are in serious financial trouble and have pleaded with the TO about their situation. They had to suck it up....grin and bear it. They are more willing than ever to work out a payment arrangement were in past years they were not too fond of doing that. This is my friends last year and he is bailing out of the club...he originally signed up for 10 years.

[madredskinsfan]

I'm certain I am not the first person who has tried and been stonewalled by the TO. Perhaps the TO and team hasn't learned from the similar tactics by the mortgage companies, banks and others who stuck by their terms and wouldn't work with people with financial hardships. I believe that if anyone files bankruptcy and includes the CCAL in the filing, the CCAL is a non-secured creditor and most likely ends up with zilch. Seems to me the TO and team would be better served to try to find a middle ground to the benefit of both sides. A payment plan doesn't really cut it.

I also really wonder if their one-side CCAL has really been upheld by a court.

If the team didn't overcharge for premium seats, and also didn't adhere to a yearly % increase (which in these current economic times makes no sense at all to continue to have) they would sell more premium seats and have more renewals. But as things stand now, I'm doubtful many will continue to renew when their term expires. I'm sorry now that I renewed several years ago (but then again times were better several years ago when the decisions at that time looked sensible).

[madredskinsfan]

BTW, since the TO says the CCAl still must be paid even if you die during its term, I have instructed my spouse that if that should happen, that either the urn with my ashes in it or my stuffed/mumified body will be in that seat with a large sign explaining why such action is being taken. That should play out real well on television. (G)

[chipwhich]

If the team didn't overcharge for premium seats, and also didn't adhere to a yearly % increase (which in these current economic times makes no sense at all to continue to have) they would sell more premium seats and have more renewals. But as things stand now, I'm doubtful many will continue to renew when their term expires. I'm sorry now that I renewed several years ago (but then again times were better several years ago when the decisions at that time looked sensible).

No offense but you bought the product and now have buyers remorse.

I am sure a HIGH percentage of club level contract owners have buyers remorse.

I have no idea why anyone without crazy disposable income and cash would sign up for 60K - 120K in guaranteed revenue for the stadium for season tickets.

I mean really, all you had to do was calculate the cost on paper and think...do I really love football that much?

You bought an expensive car, and signed the paperwork which stated you were liable under all of those conditions.

Your best bet is to get what you can this year via resale, donate some to charity, and suck up your losses. This really isn't the ticket offices fault.

If you are lucky, the skins will be good and you will get some fare value for them.

Good luck.

[Mark The Homer]

A number of these types of threads regarding premiums seating contracts have come up over the years. All of them have concluded similarly: you're legally obligated to continue paying.

I do believe you are correct regarding the contract being non-secured, therefore entitling you to at least some relief depending on what chapter you choose. Certain bankruptcy filings may entitle you to relief - but I'm no lawyer. Most threads like this end up dying out and we never find out what happens in the end.

I'm kind of curious about that.

Best advice I can offer is

1) Sell your seats and try to get what you can. Don't be greedy. Don't try to get face or what you paid. Offer below face. That way, your seats will be a bargain compared to others. Eat the difference.

2) Otherwise, if you file for bankruptcy, talk to your lawyer about it.

Good luck.

[RFKFedEx]

Where are the seats?

What section and row number?

I hope for your sake they're not in zone A because those are the most difficult to recover cost in the secondary market.

[madredskinsfan]

The seats are not in that area.

Marketing 101 teaches you that when you have a product that is not selling you take steps to make the product more attractive to buyers and if necessary rethink your pricing position.

In the case of premium seats, they are overpriced and in many cases have fixed escalator price increases attached to them. The TO admits that there is no wait list for premium seats and that they are having a difficult time attracting new buyers and are seeing more and more fans not renewing their CCALs when they expire. So what do they do? They hold fast in their present position. Sure they are offering some incentives to people to try them for a year with the promise of moving you down to a lower level seat after 1 year. (Boy, that is a sure kick in the teeth for those who have been patiently in line on the regular seat wait list with the promise that as when their name gets to the top of the list they would get first crack at any better seats that come available. Buy a 1 year premium seat and move to the top of the wait list. How fair is that? )

The TO and the team should re-examine their premium seat plans with the object of making them affordable again (both for current fans as well as for new buyers) and making them become so wanted again that a wait list for them develops. Holding to current pricing and positions is not going to accomplish that at all. If they took such action, such as halving current prices, they would probably see an upswing in renewals and an increase in new buyers. If you have happy premium seat customers then they would spread the word about how good a deal premium seats are to others. Then all the premium seats would be filled for games. As things stand now, more and more premium seats will be empty and at the prices they currently go for, it makes it that much more difficult to try to sell your tickets. (Of course the TO urges you to use StubHub for that purpose and the fee for that is 15% of what you sell them for, so if you want to break even the price has to go up 15% automatically.)

Simple math: If you have say 20,000 premium seats for sale (at an average of price of $4000) and of that number only 60% are sold you then you have revenue of $48M. But if you lower the price per seat to say $3000 and you sell 100% of them you have $60M in revenue.

[Mark The Homer]

Mad -

First - you're probably not equipped to teach business to Mr. Snyder.

Second - even if the team cut prices on premium seating by 90% starting today, that has nothing to do with you. You are obligated by legal contract to pay the price stipulated in said contract.

[d10]

(Boy, that is a sure kick in the teeth for those who have been patiently in line on the regular seat wait list with the promise that as when their name gets to the top of the list they would get first crack at any better seats that come available. Buy a 1 year premium seat and move to the top of the wait list. How fair is that? )

I was told by the TO a few days ago that they're no longer offering seat upgrades at the conclusion of premium seating contracts, but I'm not 100% sure that wasn't just said to pressure me into signing a contract by the end of the day. Not that I have a reason to distrust the TO, I just don't have a reason to trust them, and my standard position in these matters is skepticism.

[madredskinsfan]

Lets see how Mr. Snyder's business purchases the past few years are doing, especially after he sold his communications company at the height of the dot.com boom (one of his few good moves).

Radio network? I think enough has been said about the limited range and quality of his various signals strength. Fewer people can clearly hear the games then ever before.

Six Flags? I believe it has been listed on the 'Pink Sheets' with a value of 34 cents per share. That's a far far cry from what the purchase price was to Mr. Snyder. It is heavy in debt.

Johnny Rockets? Owned by the same organization that controls Six Flags. Enough said.

Yes, the TO is under no obligation to do anything for the people stuck with current agreements. It certainly doesn't sit well to see these incentive packages offered to newbies and nothing done to show a sign of 'thanks' for current CCAL holders. Remember some ads for an airline awhile back where the CEO is handing out tickets to the salepeople and telling them that they are to go see and take care of their existing customers who for too long were taken for granted? Well that thinking should be first and foremost with regard to current premium seat holders. You always are taught to take care of your current customers first and foremost and do what you can and must to retain them as customers in the future. Obviously that is not really being done here as renewal rates are not going well, according to the TO.

And just so you know, I've been a fan of the team since Nixon was in charge (Coach Nixon, not the politician Nixon). Thats over 50 years. I was on the wait list for over 30 years. I first purchased premium seats when I figured that my wait # (6108 at the time) was probably not going to be low enough for regular seats at the new field (and I was right as my # didn't come up for another 4 years) so I opted for premium seats. I have renewed a couple of times already. It is just now that it is a hardship for me to contiue to pay the high prices and that is why I sought relief from the CCAL from the TO (to no avail). Hopefully I can sell the tickets and/or transfer ownership. Until then the team has another unhappy fan and will also have another non-renewal when the CCAL officially ends.

[Mark The Homer]

I'm sorry for your unfortunate position. Here's another thread on the matter:

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=247814

Nixon, huh? Wow. I've only been a fan since '71. Still we have a lot of parallels.

I put my name on the list in '88. I was number 15,000 something. I too joined the Club for the same reason you did. I was offered tickets/seats in 1999 in upper level row 1. I successfully transferred my contract after that season. It was easier for me because I had very nice on-the-aisle under-cover clubs, and prices were much cheaper back then.

Good luck.

[madredskinsfan]

Thanks for the link. The TO's hardline position has been set for many seasons now.

Perhaps if more fans wanted to band together to fight the CCAL in court and a lawyer/fan would be willing to pursue the case, maybe just maybe it will get found to be unfair and one-sided.

I know that the TO threatens court action for non-payment, but my feeling is that they have never gone that far because if they have and the courts ruled fully in the team's favor they would be touting that victory (and even listing the court case # and ruling) in all their threatening correspondence. I think they don't want to take that chance in court.