CNN: Passions over 'prosperity gospel': Was Jesus wealthy?

[Major Harris]

And that 1 person was the Apostle Bernie Goldman.

just make sure apostle bernie remembers that jc owes rufus 13 bucks.

[Ryman of the North]

1- jesus was not black, he was a jew, he may have been very short and semitic but that doesnt make him black.
2- jesus was obviously from a well off family, he was educated and was initially well spoken of as he came from the house of david (jewish kings).
3-he was born in a manger BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ROOM AT THE INN. not because they couldnt afford it.
4-He travelled with a very large entourage and never wanted for food, in the one proverb a disciple asks a question about food and jesus responds that its taken care of.
5-early on before the miracles Jesus had respect, guys dont just go into the temple and tear ass without consequences unless they have some pull.
6-very few people got tombs in that area.
7-there are many writings and such about jesus but the most important ones we will never see because we dont have access to the vault in the vatican.
this doesnt mean I think we should make wealth a huge priority but it does mean I think jesus was well off.

[polywog999]

Am I wrong here, or is this just yet another lame attempt at class-warfare? So, god hates poor people? Is that the point here? Hello, agenda!

http://hubpages.com/hub/Thejcrevalator2therich

Luke 12:33
" Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.”

Luke 16:15
”And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men (money and possessions) is detestable in the sight of God.”

Luke 16:13
" No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other You cannot serve God and wealth."

[Thiebear]

Even in todays age:
You make people believe you can heal the blind, show that you can walk on water, show people that you can feed a crowd with a loaf of bread. People ALSO think your the son of God?

You get all kinds of money, people line up to either help you or profit from you being there.

He could have had some money but no chance he was rich, he would have given it away here and there along the way...

Atheist disclaimer: but it seems that if he was who everyone says he was for the last 2000 years: Why bother to even ask such a stupid question. He is God, Son of God or the combination of both: He made the Universe, do you really think there would ever be a "want" without it just being.

[polywog999]

Timothy 6:8-10 (money)

8“And having food and raiment (clothes) let us be therewith content.

9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”

Luke 6:20, 24

20”And turning His gaze toward His disciples, He (JESUS) began to say,

"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.

24 "But woe to you who are rich, for you are receiving your comfort in full.”

[boobiemiles]

"seen as middle class" in a time with virtually no middle class? I find that hard to believe. Especially when the tiny population that did make up what middle class they did have was made up of traders and other professions that did so much business that they managed to collect enough money to be somewhat respectable. Certainly not a carpenter. That is labor at the end of the day is it not?

Also don't forget that the reason Jesus received these gifts was because he was viewed as special. It wasn't his family name the did it.

Ultimately however you have to remember that Jesus gave up worldly possessions. They served no purpose to him. He was there to spread the message to the people... and the people in that day were in large part, lower class. He didn't need a house, a business, or a an inheritance. He didn't come to make rich people feel less guilty about their fortunes while the poor struggled to get by just outside their door.

I think you have to be careful how you compare the idea of prosperity in Jesus time. Remember the state sanctions very little. The wasn't a school system like the one we have today. Jesus was well spoken, and educated. You can see this in one of the few stories about Jesus as a child. he was able to engage the priest at the temple, when Marie and Joe forgot him in Jerusalem. Plus that should give you and idea how big Jesus family was. How do you leave Jesus behind? I mean he's the messiah, a star follows him and everything. How many kids did Mary have? You need money to support a family. There is no section 8.
Second I don't think Jesus gave up all worldly possession. John the baptist was more of the "leave the world behind type". The wild man of Bethlehem was trying to bring the Jews back to time off the exodous. So he was probably *** naked outside Jesus window telling him to come one and get baptised. Jesus got baptised, but he didn't join his cousin in the desert though. In short Jesus was trying to reform the Jewish people. If you say that Jesus was against the Roman oppression, so he tried to undermine the Roman ideals, I will agree with you. But to say he was a man of piety (sp), i would disagree. Jesus was feeding people at the sermon on the mount, watched Joseph fishing and didn't want any fish, breaking bread and serving wine to 13 disciples including that chump Judas. Plus that "turning water into wine" trick had to be a hit. Shoot I wish somebody would turn my coffee into wine every day. I would pay good money for that.

[boobiemiles]

Ok, now I know you're just ****ing with us. There can't possibly be anybody that believes Jesus was crucified at less than 1 year old.

Yes I am messing with you. Wha I am trying to point out is most people only know Jesus was born on December 25th, and died sometime in April.

[Corcaigh]

Some folks claim a link between the Prosperity Gospel and the housing bubble ...

http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon...-the-econ.html

At some point the message shifted from the merits of hard work and sacrifice to ... "God blessed me with my first house despite my credit"

[polywog999]

Mark 10: 20-25

20 And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up."

21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

22 But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

23 And Jesus, looking around, said to His disciples, “How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!"

24 The disciples were amazed at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!

25"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

[Corcaigh]

25"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Sure, but what's rich? $50 million, 100 million?

[AsburySkinsFan]

1- jesus was not black, he was a jew, he may have been very short and semitic but that doesnt make him black.--Agreed
2- jesus was obviously from a well off family, he was educated and was initially well spoken of as he came from the house of david (jewish kings).--Semi agree, just because you come from the line of David doesn't mean you're wealthy. As for his education, Rabbis chose their students it was not a matter of paying tuition.
3-he was born in a manger BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ROOM AT THE INN. not because they couldnt afford it.If Jesus was from a wealthy family then Joseph would have been able to draw on his Bethlehem ties to secure housing, as it was he could not.
4-He travelled with a very large entourage and never wanted for food, in the one proverb a disciple asks a question about food and jesus responds that its taken care of.--There were several wealthy people who traveled with Jesus, Mary Magdalene being one of them, most assume she was a prostitute but that is not indicated by anything around her, Magdalene was a reference to the region of Magda. However Mary Lazarus' sister was the one who anointed Jesus' feet with the expensive perfume (John 11:2, John 12:3) and living in Bethany this should be an indication that the family of Mary, Martha and Lazarus were indeed well off. But this still doesn't indicate whether Jesus was or not.
5-early on before the miracles Jesus had respect, guys dont just go into the temple and tear ass without consequences unless they have some pull.
6-very few people got tombs in that area. --Jesus when he entered into the Temple already had the pull of the people surrounding him, and it is stated several times that the leaders feared the people, so they were forced to leave Jesus alone.
7-there are many writings and such about jesus but the most important ones we will never see because we dont have access to the vault in the vatican.--Oh no...you were doing so well until you went off the rails with the Da Vinci Code nonsense.
this doesnt mean I think we should make wealth a huge priority but it does mean I think jesus was well off.--If Jesus did come from wealth, he abandoned the wealth.Matthew 8:20 And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head."

[AsburySkinsFan]

The main point behind this belief is that God is good and He wants you to prosper.

Here's the rub though, none of Jesus' disciples prospered, they all died martyred deaths, what about the poor people all over the world who are of faith, does God want everyone to be wealthy or prosper in this life? See this is exactly where I believe that the Prosperity Gospel misses the boat in that the scriptures teach about hardship, persecution, enduring trials and tribulations...everywhere the scriptures teach about the life in Christ not as something that is "good" in the eyes of the world but instead something that is hard. I too believe that God is good, but the idea that He wants us to prosper in this life miss understands the promises that are given for our new lives in the resurrection, this is why I cannot affirm the Prosperity Gospel.

[polywog999]

Sure, but what's rich? $50 million, 100 million?

Good question. The point is, Jesus says "all worldly possessions."
He is not talking about millions!

[polywog999]

I think a lot of people are afraid of what the Bible says, so they like to tinker with Its meaning. Always read it with an open mind and don't swallow what other people say.

On a personal note; I do not believe that poverty is in any way beneficial. How can you help the poor, if you yourself are poor?

[AsburySkinsFan]

I agree Fergason, and there are tons of scriptures to back it up, besides the scenarios you mentioned. The first one that comes to mind is, "I wish above all, that you prosper, just as your soul prospereth".

That is from 3 John 1:2; first of all its part of the greeting of John's letter, much like we would say "I hope all is well with you." Second the word that the King James translates as prosper is the word eunodow: which is translated only the passive and not literally; ‘be led along a good road’, but in the sense: have things turn out well. Paul also uses this same word when he says "I will finally succeed in coming to you" Romans 1:10. (This translation is from the BDAG Greek Lexicon).