CNN: Passions over 'prosperity gospel': Was Jesus wealthy?

[AsburySkinsFan]

Asbury and Polywog, I think you're both partially wrong. Scripture can and should be studied and read individually, but also we should not forsake or think of ourselves so highly that we think the Holy Spirit has not illuminated other Christians in our community (and in the church catholic) with correct interpretations that will benefit us.

Zguy, come on you don't honestly think that I'm saying we shouldn't read our Bibles at home, or think on our own...do you? Polywog said that we shouldn't "swallow" what others say because people "tinker" with the Bible, in other words, if you don't like what someone says ignore them, because after all they are probably just tinkering with the Bible and it is the individual who in the end is the final arbiter of truth.

[polywog999]

Because I see all to often in the church people who brag about their lack of education and flaunt the Christian community and then begin to try and teach others about Christianity only to cause hurt and harm in those lives. We as Christians learn and teach in community, not isolation.

Hebrews 10:24-25 And let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good deeds, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly; teach and admonish one another in all wisdom; and with gratitude in your hearts sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs to God.

1 Timothy 1:2-3 To Timothy, my loyal child in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. 3 I urge you, as I did when I was on my way to Macedonia, to remain in Ephesus so that you may instruct certain people not to teach any different doctrine,

1 Timothy 4:10-11 For to this end we toil and struggle, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. 11 These are the things you must insist on and teach.

2 Timothy 2:1-2 You then, my child, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus; 2 and what you have heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will be able to teach others as well.

Titus 2:1 But as for you, teach what is consistent with sound doctrine.

1 Timothy 5:4 If a widow has children or grandchildren, they should first learn their religious duty to their own family and make some repayment to their parents; for this is pleasing in God's sight.

Sorry, you did not answer the question. Show me specifically where it says that you cannot make up your own mind about what the scriptures say.

Better yet, it is time to move back to the OP and at this point I am getting tired of bickering!

[techboy]

7-there are many writings and such about jesus but the most important ones we will never see because we dont have access to the vault in the vatican.

Nonsense. One wonders, for instance, how you know about these "secret" documents no one knows about?

(Camel and Needle parable)

Though I think I agree with your general thrust, like many, you stopped a verse or two short. Please provide the next verses for appropriate context.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Sorry, you did not answer the question. Show me specifically where it says that you cannot make up your own mind about what the scriptures say.

See, you have your mind made up, you are your own Pope...may it be well with you.

I guess next time my car breaks down and I take it to the shop I can make up my own mind about what is wrong with my car, and how to fix it, even though I have no training with automobiles. Same with the doctor's office, same with building a home or skyscapers, who needs the knowledge of others when we have ourselves! Viva individuality!

[AsburySkinsFan]

Nonsense. One wonders, for instance, how you know about these "secret" documents no one knows about?

Come on Techboy, you can't prove they don't exist...so they must exist...right? LOL @ the classic conspiracy theory mindset.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Show me specifically where it says that you cannot make up your own mind about what the scriptures say.

In other news, 2+2 no longer equals 4 because the Bible doesn't tell us specifically that it does.

[polywog999]

In other news, 2+2 no longer equals 4 because the Bible doesn't tell us specifically that it does.

Give it a rest. Time to move on. Not trying to change your mind!

Mark 10:17 – 31

17”As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

19"You know the commandments, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"

20 And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up."

21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

22 But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

23 And Jesus, looking around, said to His disciples, “How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!"

24 The disciples were amazed at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!

25"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

26 They were even more astonished and said to Him, "Then who can be saved?"

27 Looking at them, Jesus said, "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God."

28Peter began to say to Him, "Behold, we have left everything and followed You."

29Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel's sake,

30but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

31"But many who are first will be last, and the last, first."

Let’s be clear on what Jesus just said. He didn’t say God will make exceptions, he said what we all know that anything is possible with God, but the fact remains he demands the rich give up their wealth. He does promise wealth in Heaven for those who are faithful to his teachings.

[Old Bay]

I don't know if it was mentioned or not, I didn't see it in my reading the thread, but one of the reasons people say Jesus must've been rich was the tomb. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought the tomb belonged to Joseph of Aramithia and he 'donated' it, so to speak.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Let’s be clear on what Jesus just said. He didn’t say God will make exceptions, he said what we all know that anything is possible with God, but the fact remains he demands the rich give up their wealth. He does promise wealth in Heaven for those who are faithful to his teachings.

Agreed, those who are blessed with wealth are blessed so that they can be a blessing to others; this is the entire point of the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (not the one who was resurrected). It wasn't God's will for Lazarus to be rich, it was God's will for the rich man to love his neighbor Lazarus and use the wealth that God gave him to be a blessing to Lazarus.

Luke 16:19-31 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man's table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. 24 He called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 Besides all this, between you and us a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who might want to pass from here to you cannot do so, and no one can cross from there to us.' 27 He said, 'Then, father, I beg you to send him to my father's house-- 28 for I have five brothers-- that he may warn them, so that they will not also come into this place of torment.' 29 Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.' 30 He said, 'No, father Abraham; but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31 He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

This is not to say that God hates the rich and loves only the poor, far from it, but God loves the poor and hates it when they are abandoned; the poor, the widow, the orphan and the sojourner in the land are all people on the margins of life who are vulnerable, it falls to those with the blessings of resources to manage those resources in the way God intended them to be used in order to show, love, mercy and compassion upon those in need.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I don't know if it was mentioned or not, I didn't see it in my reading the thread, but one of the reasons people say Jesus must've been rich was the tomb. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought the tomb belonged to Joseph of Aramithia and he 'donated' it, so to speak.

You're right, Jesus was from Nazareth in Galilee, he died in Jerusalem about 3 hours south by car and since it was on the Sabbath they couldn't take him to his family tomb for burial in Galilee so they placed him in a borrowed tomb.

[Old Bay]

I don't know a lot about the culture at that time, something I really should study as I think the context helps a lot when reading the Bible. Did every family have a tomb for burial?

[Thiebear]

This is the only question you need to answer:

Why would God need money?

[boobiemiles]

So is the argument that the God had to go to school to be educated and learn to speak well and as going to school wasn't free his family had to have money?

Do we really believe Earthly schools were required to make God educated?

Are you saying Jesus was God?

[AsburySkinsFan]

This is the only question you need to answer:

Why would God need money?

God doesn't, but then Jesus being God chose to live a human life and while He could have turned the stones to bread He understood that human's cannot do such things as such He restricted Himself.

Matthew 4:3 The tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread."

[polywog999]

Are you saying Jesus was God?

According to the new testament, he was.