Rivals.com: Tim Tebow not looking good in Senior Bowl practice

[Chopper Dave]

He set the SEC record for most rushing touchdowns. As a quarterback. 52 rushing touchdowns.

In case you missed that, he set the all-time SEC record for rushing touchdowns, beating the great Herschel Walker. Which would make me drool at the thought of drafting him, except for the fact that...you know...he's a quarterback. Not a running back. Last year he had more rushing attempts than pass completions, and 40% of his career touchdowns are rushing touchdowns. He's Pat White on steroids.

From NFL Draft Scout on his performance in Senior Bowl practices:"Tim Tebow's struggles during the first day of Senior Bowl practices on Monday provided little evidence that he can turn his collegiate accolades and rock star status into NFL success."

"Tebow...sprayed balls high and outside on deep outs and forced receivers to alter their routes to make the catch. Tebow also struggled with the exchange from center and in dropping back. He fumbled a few snaps early and was slow in getting depth from the line of scrimmage. On a positive note, he made it a point to remain in the pocket and scan the field for secondary options when his initial read was covered. Too often, however, Tebow elected to check down and toss the ball to his backs for minimal gains."

From Walter Football: "Strengths: Muscular build and great bulk ... Solid arm strength ... Very good accuracy on the deep ball ... Great feel for a pass rush and has a great mental clock of when to step out of the pocket ... Athletic enough; can pick up the first down with his legs ... Powerful runner ... Good character and strong work ethic."

"Weaknesses: Absolutely horrendous footwork ... Plays in a run-option offense and it will take him 2-3 years to learn an NFL offense ... Horrible touch on the football, which is difficult to catch ... Nice accuracy on the deep ball, but it's very inconsistent in the intermediate routes ... Extremely long release ... Shown no improvement in his mechanics over his career ... Locks on to primary receivers all the time ... Speed at wide receiver made a lot of his throws look better than they actually were."

"Summary: Tim Tebow lacks the basic precision passing qualities for what it takes to be an NFL quarterback, and as of now I'm giving him a fourth-round draft grade ... Needs to improve mechanics drastically ... Transition to being an NFL signal caller should take some time ... Needs to be more of a calm/cool/collected leader on the field rather than being so emotional ... Second halves against Michigan and LSU showed Tebow's great flaws when they neutralized the run option and forced him to be a pocket quarterback ... He could be a solid fullback in the NFL with his running style if it doesn't work out at quarterback."

So basically, what everyone has always said. Absolutely tremendous athlete, not a very tremendous quarterback.

First, to respond to the only thing in your last post that YOU (maybe) wrote, I'll say that it's pretty much certifiably bat**** crazy to denigrate a guy's skills because he broke the all-time rushing TD record of one of the greatest running backs of to ever play football, while not at the RB position.

You are LITERALLY just taking one negative scouting report and repeating it. Not only that, you did this, and then basically ignored the summary. Not only THAT, but all of your previously expressed views seem to come from this scouting report.

Any idiot can read the contents of a website and regurgitate it nearly verbatim onto another website.

Also, I don't really think anyone is debating that he had a bad first day. However, you seem content to make your irrational judgement based on whatever "information" confirms your already set viewpoint, so there's no point really discussing it with you. It's like I'm arguing that red delicious apples make good apple juice, and you're arguing that apple juice ****ing sucks. OK, you're mind is obviously made up. Congrats. I hope he proves you wrong, although I'm not so sure a lack of total omniscience on your part doesn't already do that.

And Sparty, you're once again confusing slow with low. The speed of the release isn't the problem, though of course you always want to quicken it. It's where it comes down to that is the main problem. Additionally, it was more our piss-poor OL play at times this season that allowed defenses to get us out of rhythm. Nevertheless, you are probably right in that if he doesn't succeed, it will absolutely be because of his release.

[JaimeDeCurry]

First, to respond to the only thing in your last post that YOU (maybe) wrote, I'll say that it's pretty much certifiably bat**** crazy to denigrate a guy's skills because he broke the all-time rushing TD record of one of the greatest running backs of all time, while not at the RB position.

You are LITERALLY just taking one negative scouting report and repeating it. Not only that, you did this, and then basically ignored the summary. Not only THAT, but all of your previously expressed views seem to come from this scouting report.

Any idiot can read the contents of a website and regurgitate it nearly verbatim onto another website.

Also, I don't really think anyone is debating that he had a bad first day. However, you seem content to make your irrational judgement based on whatever "information" confirms your already set viewpoint, so there's no point really discussing it with. It's like I'm arguing that red delicious apples make good apple juice, and you're arguing that apple juice ****ing sucks. OK, you're mind is obviously made up. Congrats. I hope he proves you wrong, although I'm not so sure a lack of total omniscience on your part doesn't already do that.

I invite you to take a meander through the various draft websites out there. All of them are saying the same thing, my blue-and-orange clad friend. As have numerous other people on this board. I guess we just happened to all stumble upon that ONE scouting report that paints him as a not-so-great quarterback prospect? I'm a huge SEC fan, and watching many of Florida's games this year told me exactly what to think of Tebow is a pro QB prospect. Don't blame me for the fact that pretty much every scout out there agrees, and has for some time.

And as for breaking the all-time rushing touchdown record...I fail to comprehend how you can't see why that may be a warning sign.

The guy isn't a running back, right? Did I miss something there? I'd be a lot more interested if he broke a record related to quarterbacking...passing yards, passing touchdowns, yards per attempt. I'd be even more interested if he did it in something even remotely resembling a pro-style offense. You said it yourself - he broke the rushing TD record of one of the greatest running backs in the history of the game. That seriously doesn't throw up a red flag?

Nobody can knock on Tebow's athleticism, work ethic, leadership abilities, or heart. But those things don't make a good quarterback. A good quarterback possesses many of those traits, but those traits don't make up for a slow release, inaccurate passing, and all the other things you claim I stole from just about every draft report on Terrific Tim.

[Chopper Dave]

I invite you to take a meander through the various draft websites out there. All of them are saying the same thing, my blue-and-orange clad friend. As have numerous other people on this board. I guess we just happened to all stumble upon that ONE scouting report that paints him as a not-so-great quarterback prospect? I'm a huge SEC fan, and watching many of Florida's games this year told me exactly what to think of Tebow is a pro QB prospect. Don't blame me for the fact that pretty much every scout out there agrees, and has for some time.

And as for breaking the all-time rushing touchdown record...I fail to comprehend how you can't see why that may be a warning sign.

The guy isn't a running back, right? Did I miss something there? I'd be a lot more interested if he broke a record related to quarterbacking...passing yards, passing touchdowns, yards per attempt. I'd be even more interested if he did it in something even remotely resembling a pro-style offense. You said it yourself - he broke the rushing TD record of one of the greatest running backs in the history of the game. That seriously doesn't throw up a red flag?

Nobody can knock on Tebow's athleticism, work ethic, leadership abilities, or heart. But those things don't make a good quarterback. A good quarterback possesses many of those traits, but those traits don't make up for a slow release, inaccurate passing, and all the other things you claim I stole from just about every draft report on Terrific Tim.

It really doesn't throw up a red flag. It shouldn't. He played in a spread option offense. It speaks to his athleticism. I don't think I've ever claimed that the system did him any favors in the realm of NFL readiness.

Again, it's quite obvious your mind is made up. You mention numerous scouting reports, yet you only reference one, and even its summary disproves your point.

You want to write him off before he even gets drafted, who cares? You're just some guy. Like I said before, I'd like to see him prove you wrong, however your lack of a valid premise does that for him.

And he's not inaccurate. Eventually the peanut gallery will send that bogus theory wherever it sent the bogus theory about his arm strength.

[Larry]

JC played in the SEC as well.

How did he do there?

[RocketCitySkins]

How did he do there?

Comparing apples to oranges? Totally different system. Run first, power backs. You know. The same system Gibbs drafted JC to run.

[JaimeDeCurry]

You mention numerous scouting reports, yet you only reference one, and even its summary disproves your point.

I've already mentioned nfldraftscout.com and Walter Football.

Here's Jimmy Johnson's take: “If you’re going to take Tim Tebow, and you’re going to say ‘OK, I’m going to have him be our quarterback,’ you might as well get rid of your coaching staff and hire a spread offense coach. So bring in a new coaching staff – bring in Urban Meyer with him, and run that style of offense if he’s going to be your quarterback. Because he can’t play in a pro style of offense.”

The Red Zone Report has him listed as the #6 QB: "His offense at Florida gave him quick, easy options to get the ball to, and may have inflated his production."

Pro Football Weekly: "A big, strong, physical southpaw with the mental toughness, desire and intelligence desired in a front-line player, Tebow is not a natural passer, will require significant development time and could wind up bringing more immediate value and long-term potential to a team in an H-back role, where he could use his overpowering strength to fight for yardage after the catch."

CBSSports.com "Characterized by some as Bronko Nagurski under center."

Sporting News: "However, scouts want to see him display the footwork, delivery, mechanics and passing skills necessary to play QB in the NFL. To this point, he hasn't shown enough in those areas to make scouts think he can become a good NFL starting quarterback."

Dude, come on. You know full well it's not just me or just one draft report. Numerous people in this thread alone have commented on his serious disadvantages. I'm not knocking Tebow the person, or Tebow the athlete, or Tebow the leader of men. Tebow the NFL quarterback, however, has tons of question marks.

Ask yourself - if he had played in orange or crimson or garnet instead of Gator blue, would you still be so high on him given all his obvious blemishes as a pro signal caller?

And he's not inaccurate. Eventually the peanut gallery will send that bogus theory wherever it sent the bogus theory about his arm strength.

Again, read some of the draft profiles. Are there lots of positives? Yes. But just about every single one mentions his accuracy as being an issue. I have a hard time believing all the draft guys writing analysis on Tebow just decided to disregard his accurate throwing prowess and highlight him as being an inaccurate passer.

[Chopper Dave]

I've already mentioned nfldraftscout.com and Walter Football.

Here's Jimmy Johnson's take: “If you’re going to take Tim Tebow, and you’re going to say ‘OK, I’m going to have him be our quarterback,’ you might as well get rid of your coaching staff and hire a spread offense coach. So bring in a new coaching staff – bring in Urban Meyer with him, and run that style of offense if he’s going to be your quarterback. Because he can’t play in a pro style of offense.”

The Red Zone Report has him listed as the #6 QB: "His offense at Florida gave him quick, easy options to get the ball to, and may have inflated his production."

Pro Football Weekly: "A big, strong, physical southpaw with the mental toughness, desire and intelligence desired in a front-line player, Tebow is not a natural passer, will require significant development time and could wind up bringing more immediate value and long-term potential to a team in an H-back role, where he could use his overpowering strength to fight for yardage after the catch."

CBSSports.com "Characterized by some as Bronko Nagurski under center."

Sporting News: "However, scouts want to see him display the footwork, delivery, mechanics and passing skills necessary to play QB in the NFL. To this point, he hasn't shown enough in those areas to make scouts think he can become a good NFL starting quarterback."

Dude, come on. You know full well it's not just me or just one draft report. Numerous people in this thread alone have commented on his serious disadvantages. I'm not knocking Tebow the person, or Tebow the athlete, or Tebow the leader of men. Tebow the NFL quarterback, however, has tons of question marks.

Ask yourself - if he had played in orange or crimson or garnet instead of Gator blue, would you still be so high on him given all his obvious blemishes as a pro signal caller?



Again, read some of the draft profiles. Are there lots of positives? Yes. But just about every single one mentions his accuracy as being an issue. I have a hard time believing all the draft guys writing analysis on Tebow just decided to disregard his accurate throwing prowess and highlight him as being an inaccurate passer.

I think you're completely ignoring what I'm saying because your mind is already made up. I don't care if he's wearing garnet and gold or a rainbow colored fur coat and a codpiece made of bacon; with his physical tools, he CAN be an NFL QB. I know this from watching him play in over 50 games, and from watching him start 30-some. Moreover, most of these reports you talk about a) don't necessarily question his accuracy and b) serve to undermine your central argument; he CAN be an NFL QB. He's got the most important, most uncommon, and (second, maybe, to accuracy) most coveted thing down: intangibles. No, someone with only intangibles cannot succeed. Jason White couldn't succeed. And of course I'm rooting for Tebow, that's why I'm sitting here arguing something so simple as this with you. I want him to succeed, but that's only relevant to my motivation, not my overarching point. You combine unmatched intangibles with extreme athleticism, high character, and a willingness to learn, and you put him under a coach that will nurture and develop and train him to use his tools to be an NFL caliber QB, and at the very least, completely objectively, you have a player that CAN succeed. You want to argue otherwise? Godspeed. That would make you an idiot.

[KokoMike]

Tebow will get his butt kicked in the NFL for a variety of reasons.

[icbmayday]

I wonder how this is going to hurt his draft stock......I am puzzled that he won't try to showcase himself in any other positions.

[JaimeDeCurry]

I'm not sure why you say something like this:

You combine unmatched intangibles with extreme athleticism, high character, and a willingness to learn, and you put him under a coach that will nurture and develop and train him to use his tools to be an NFL caliber QB, and at the very least, completely objectively, you have a player that CAN succeed. You want to argue otherwise? Godspeed. That would make you an idiot.

When one of my first posts on the subject ended with this:

Am I saying the CAN'T survive in the NFL and be successful? No. I'm just saying that all his actual quarterbacking traits point to the fact that he won't.

[KokoMike]

I wonder how this is going to hurt his draft stock......I am puzzled that he won't try to showcase himself in any other positions.

The biggest risk he is taking is the interviews with the NFL scouts. The risks with Tebow are huge.

[Chicken Fried]

This makes me happy.

That's cool. Cheer for someone to play poorly so he gets drafted lower.

How could you possibly look yourself in the mirror and consider yourself an NFL coach and not be able to teach a guy to run back three steps, five steps and seven steps?

I have to agree. There are things you need to change as a QB, but I think the "curse of the spread offense" is overrated. Maybe these QBs just aren't that good who don't succeed in the NFL after playing in a spread. I think the spread often attracts certain types of players (weaker arms a lot of the time, Tebow being an exception). Maybe the player just wasn't good to begin with, so he went to a spread system where he could put up big numbers.

[JaimeDeCurry]

That's cool. Cheer for someone to play poorly so he gets drafted lower.

Oh come on. Arguably the best player in college football history being unable to handle a snap under center doesn't give you a little chuckle?

Good lord people get their panties in a wad when someone tosses a little criticism at Blue and Orange Jesus.

[Chopper Dave]

I'm not sure why you say something like this:



When one of my first posts on the subject ended with this:

I'm not sure how you can say something like that when everything else you've said throughout the thread is completely contradictory to it. At the beginning, that was your premise; he is not an NFL caliber prospect. Maybe not the exact words, but the gist.

You've chosen to cede the point without explicitly saying so. I guess all my arguing has worked. Usually never does on this board. Plus, at this point, I just like arguing with you because I'm a huge Tebow fan and you're pretty much writing him off the January before the draft. Which, all arguing aside, is pretty dumb for anyone who succeeded in the SEC.

[darrelgreenie]

Again, read some of the draft profiles. Are there lots of positives? Yes. But just about every single one mentions his accuracy as being an issue. I have a hard time believing all the draft guys writing analysis on Tebow just decided to disregard his accurate throwing prowess and highlight him as being an inaccurate passer.

Most of those 'draftsites' barely know anymore then me and you.
They are not professional scouts.
Most pro scouts have Tebow rated as the No.3 QB in the draft.
Today on path to the draft Mike Lombardi who actually been an NFL GM said that Tebow could go in the 1st round.