The "Running" Thread

[Teller]

heading out for my 9 miler.


9 miles in 1:20:36 for a 8:57 average. i'm getting there. i need 13 miles in 8:30....plenty of work to do.

Damn, Maj. That's strong as hell. Nice work!!

[Forehead]

Went to the knee doctor yesterday, got generally good news. My right knee is sound, nothing wrong with the bones or structure. He did say my quad/hamstring/calf are much tighter on the right side, there is some minor fluid buildup in my right knee, and I might be wearing out the cartilage based on how it feels, though he said that's normal as we age. Without an MRI, I won't know for sure, but the X-rays were positive. Basically, I have to ice a lot, do some PT, and he recommended arch inserts since apparently I go flat arched when I walk/run. We'll see if that clears it up.

[Major Harris]

Damn, Maj. That's strong as hell. Nice work!!

thanks man, i'm getting there. i can see the progress. i am really, really bad about adding core / strength work to my routine. i really need to do that. with that, and speed and hill work later, i think i can make my goal.

---------- Post added July-16th-2011 at 12:22 PM ----------

Went to the knee doctor yesterday, got generally good news. My right knee is sound, nothing wrong with the bones or structure. He did say my quad/hamstring/calf are much tighter on the right side, there is some minor fluid buildup in my right knee, and I might be wearing out the cartilage based on how it feels, though he said that's normal as we age. Without an MRI, I won't know for sure, but the X-rays were positive. Basically, I have to ice a lot, do some PT, and he recommended arch inserts since apparently I go flat arched when I walk/run. We'll see if that clears it up.

your foot is supposed to be a shock absorber. your foot should be able to splay out and flat when you run. put inserts in, and you're putting the impact on your knees and lower back.

are you heel-striking when you run?

[Forehead]

Yeah, I strike heel first, maybe that was why I got the arch inserts. I may be getting some parts confused, we talked about a lot of stuff. The important part was there's no structural damage to my knee so I can keep training, at least nothing an X-Ray would show.

[Corcaigh]

i am really, really bad about adding core / strength work to my routine. i really need to do that. with that, and speed and hill work later, i think i can make my goal.

For a distance like the half marathon, there's a lot of debate about how important core is.

But what can always help distance runners is improving efficiency. What you could do is throw in a handful of 'striders' a few times a week - relaxed fast running for 50 -100 yards while focusing on good form.

And drills "exaggerating certain parts of the running gait to help build a stronger, more fluid stride." ... http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=17578. Pete Magill who turns 50 soon and will run a sub 15 minute 5k, says that the two most important elements of his training for him are the volume of easy-paced running and drills to improve his running stride.

[Major Harris]

For a distance like the half marathon, there's a lot of debate about how important core is.

But what can always help distance runners is improving efficiency. What you could do is throw in a handful of 'striders' a few times a week - relaxed fast running for 50 -100 yards while focusing on good form.

And drills "exaggerating certain parts of the running gait to help build a stronger, more fluid stride." ... http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=17578. Pete Magill who turns 50 soon and will run a sub 15 minute 5k, says that the two most important elements of his training for him are the volume of easy-paced running and drills to improve his running stride.

i'm working on chi running, which strives to divert a lot of the effort from the legs to the core. so it's pretty important in that aspect...and for me personally, i know my core was rocked for about 5 days after the half marathon. i just don't like doing the work.

i agree 100% about efficiency. imo, core strength plays into how efficient you can be. i do form drills. i'm strictly heart rate monitor now, but striders / pacers will be incorporated at the 8 week mark. along with hill repeats. ugh.

---------- Post added July-17th-2011 at 09:21 AM ----------

Yeah, I strike heel first, maybe that was why I got the arch inserts. I may be getting some parts confused, we talked about a lot of stuff. The important part was there's no structural damage to my knee so I can keep training, at least nothing an X-Ray would show.

you need to stop heel striking. stop heel striking and i guarantee you that your knees will stop hurting. check the chi running or evolution running techniques. again, www.trtreads.org has a ton of great stuff.

[GoSkins561]

I'm going to look into chi running after the Baltimore Half Marathon in October. I would like to get away from the cushioned shoe and into the minimalist style running shoe. Currently I'm a mid striker. I feel like if I switch now I wouldn't be able to get back on track in time for the 10 miler then the Baltimore Half 6 days later. From what I understand and please correct me if I'm wrong, learning how to run on the balls of your feet in the wrong shoes can really mess you up.

[Major Harris]

I'm going to look into chi running after the Baltimore Half Marathon in October. I would like to get away from the cushioned shoe and into the minimalist style running shoe. Currently I'm a mid striker. I feel like if I switch now I wouldn't be able to get back on track in time for the 10 miler then the Baltimore Half 6 days later. From what I understand and please correct me if I'm wrong, learning how to run on the balls of your feet in the wrong shoes can really mess you up.

they'll tell you to phase it in. if you go minimalist, you should run no more than a mile and then get in your old shoes, gradually increasing how long you run in them until you fully make the switch. if you buy minimalist shoes and just wear them around regularly, after a couple months you can make the running switch without much bother.

chi running doesn't require minimalist shoes. i don't wear them....the main thing is that you have an open toe box and as little slope as possible heel to toe.

i use these:
http://www.saucony.com/store/SiteCon...aucony_kinvara

they are great. still plenty of cushion, but the slope is less than a lot of the newton and others minimalist shoes.

if you are truly mid-striking now, i don't think your transition will be as tough. i won't recommend either way about switching now so close to your big event.

[Corcaigh]

I'm going to look into chi running after the Baltimore Half Marathon in October. I would like to get away from the cushioned shoe and into the minimalist style running shoe. Currently I'm a mid striker. I feel like if I switch now I wouldn't be able to get back on track in time for the 10 miler then the Baltimore Half 6 days later. From what I understand and please correct me if I'm wrong, learning how to run on the balls of your feet in the wrong shoes can really mess you up.

Whatever helps you enjoy the activity ... but the secret to running is that there are no secrets.

Doing the kind of drills I linked to a few posts back will help give you decent form. And running hills. And running fast and relaxed will help too.

Many elite runners wear very lightweight shoes and don't practice 'evolution' or 'chi' running. But many runners do try to make sure they are not overstriding and practice increasing their stride rate. With a high enough stride rate you will naturally land on your forefoot or midsole and run efficiently. But there is no perfect number. If anyone tells you 180 steps per minute or a certain stride length is optimum and hands you a metronome, run in the opposite direction.

Shoes, whether heavily cushioned or 'barefoot", won't help you run better, they'll just support what you're already doing. The human body didn't evolve in giant cushioned shoes, but it also didn't evolve running on cement and asphalt either.

It's not too hard to wean yourself off heavily cushioned shoes gradually. Buy a more lightweight pair and work them in starting with very short runs, slowly increasing the distance.

Any transition in either direction should be very gradual to minimize the risk of injury.

[Major Harris]

you will naturally land on your forefoot or midsole and run efficiently.

which is the most important part, no matter how you get there. corc is right, there is no perfect method for everyone, just what's right for you. but just running and not paying attention to form is not a good idea.

edit:

i do disagree with one part. shoes can make you run better (or at least help a lot). here's why.

forehead: go to a nice flat area. grassy or paved. take your shoes off. run. i guarantee you that you won't heel strike. you'll run faster. you'll be more efficient. shoes that mimic that will help you become a more efficient runner and will strongly discourage the heel strike. when you're heel striking, your foot is landing in front of your center of gravity, which is far more labor intensive than if your stride is opening up behind you.

[Henry]

Forehead,

I'm a heel-striker and I can tell you that inserts made a big difference for me. I used to have knee problems all the time but I started using inserts a couple years ago my knees haven't given me any trouble since. If your doctor suggests inserts I'd give them a try.

[Major Harris]

sorry guys...i hate that guy, and i'm being that guy right now.

i should say "this is what works for me." whatever works for you, do it. corc is right, drill your technique.

[Forehead]

So is anyone actually doing any racing right now? I've been eyeing a few 5 miler/10K's coming up, in preparation for the Army 10, but this weather is making me think twice.

[MattFancy]

So is anyone actually doing any racing right now? I've been eyeing a few 5 miler/10K's coming up, in preparation for the Army 10, but this weather is making me think twice.

Its too damn hot to do anything outside right now let alone run. I ran at the gym this week. Did 4 miles in 36:05. Best time so far! Only 12 more weeks until my Half

[Corcaigh]

So is anyone actually doing any racing right now? I've been eyeing a few 5 miler/10K's coming up, in preparation for the Army 10, but this weather is making me think twice.

In the hot months, just keep it ticking over. There is no point in getting heat exhaustion as consistency week after week, and month after month, is far more important than any one "hero" workout that might result in you taking time off.

In this weather, all you can do is slow down, try to run at the cooler times, but don't do anything stupid. I ran on the treadmill last night because even at 9pm it was nasty out. The rest of the week have been 3 and 4 mile jogs at dusk at a level of effort that was comfortable. On Wednesday, that was 45 seconds per mile slower than Monday.

Next week I'll be in cooler climate on vacation and will try to really ramp it up again.