To frame or not to frame - a question for web developers

[Baculus]

Have you though of using something like wordpress?

That was my thinking. In this day and age, unless you absolutely want to avoid using a CMS, I think it is a good idea, for both design elegance and upkeep. And if MM didn't want to modify his current design (which wouldn't be terribly difficult), there are heaps of WP designs available.

http://wordpress.com/

[boofMcboof]

That was my thinking. In this day and age, unless you absolutely want to avoid using a CMS, I think it is a good idea, for both design elegance and upkeep. And if MM didn't want to modify his current design (which wouldn't be terribly difficult), there are heaps of WP designs available.

http://wordpress.com/

That along with all the dynamic capabilities available and ease of updating, it's worth looking into.

[Mad Mike]

Lots to consider here. Thanks for the input.

My biggest issue is that I have several hundred pages already live that I really don't want to do over again. And if I *do* have to do them over again, I want to make the changes as simply, easily, and quickly as possible.

As an FYI, I'm using dreamweaver MX 04 for site building. I'm on an OLD PPC mac and that's all I have. It uses CSS behind the scenes for some things but I don't know much about it. It has templates that you can build and use to build other pages from so that all the pages can be updated from the templates but it's a pain to build the pages that way.

I'll take a good look at wordpress but I have very specific custom needs like for the panoramas and custom google maps (for instance - all pages must be in the same directory for the maps to work and update easily) and I dont want my visitors to see a bunch of wordpress branding. I want them to see the site as daytonavr.com. Period.

[chipwhich]

Joomla.

I would never again design a website where I am managing the links and modifying multiple pages for web design.

Did I mention Joomla?

Free, easy, ability to change an entire sites layouts, schemes, colors with the click of a button.

And the biggest thing, you don't have to worry about coding HTML for independent browsers.

Frames is so 90's

[chipwhich]

(for instance - all pages must be in the same directory for the maps to work and update easily) and I dont want my visitors to see a bunch of wordpress branding. I want them to see the site as daytonavr.com. Period.

Joomla, and you could do the transition behind the scenes until you are ready to launch.

[chipwhich]

Here is a good overview that touches on modules, templates, page layouts and free plugins. There are literally hundreds of free plugins (he uses docman as an example). Free templates, etc. It took me about an hour to get a pretty good feel for it. I have extensive experience in website design, html, perl scripting, macromedia web development tools, etc. I also had websites I built from scratch with shopping carts. Since finding Joomla, I would never build a website again without using some sort of content management system like Joomla. You can incorporate your google maps, keep pics in whatever directory you want, etc. It's all flexible.

If you use godaddy or many of the popular hosting sites, Joomla is a free add on and they install it all for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htdawgn_79g

[Bang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htdawgn_79g

Thanks!

~Bang

[Enter Apotheosis]

I'll take a good look at wordpress but I have very specific custom needs like for the panoramas and custom google maps (for instance - all pages must be in the same directory for the maps to work and update easily) and I dont want my visitors to see a bunch of wordpress branding. I want them to see the site as daytonavr.com. Period.

Wordpress really doesn't force any level of branding on you and is customizable enough for you to be able to pull off just about anything you're already doing with the site. I'd be a little bit wary of Joomla, not because it isn't great at what it does but because it's less newbie-friendly.

Granted, I've only barely screwed around with Joomla and that's mostly my initial impression. I've done a bit of theming for Wordpress in the past, so I'm more familiar with how it all comes together. Pork is probably a better resource on the subject than I.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

Here is a good overview that touches on modules, templates, page layouts and free plugins. There are literally hundreds of free plugins (he uses docman as an example). Free templates, etc. It took me about an hour to get a pretty good feel for it. I have extensive experience in website design, html, perl scripting, macromedia web development tools, etc. I also had websites I built from scratch with shopping carts. Since finding Joomla, I would never build a website again without using some sort of content management system like Joomla. You can incorporate your google maps, keep pics in whatever directory you want, etc. It's all flexible.

If you use godaddy or many of the popular hosting sites, Joomla is a free add on and they install it all for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htdawgn_79g

Joomla is good, and I've been using it almost exclusively for sites I've been designing recently. However, I think WordPress is really gaining on it as a viable CMS solution. Wordpress is so much easier to upgrade, much less clunky, a bit more user friendly and like Joomla, has a ton of free plugins and addons that make the dev process a lot easier. Wordpress 3.0 is a big step towards CMS viability, it's not just for blogging anymore, it's got a lot of power. Furthermore, it's crazy easy to install.

It's funny because I was down in Atlanta last week and a good friend of mine, my girlfriend and I were just talking about how Wordpress is on the come up, and the new features of 3.0 will really make it attractive to web designers (we're all web developers/designers).

[Baculus]

I have used Joomla (and Mambo) for a while, and while it definitely has some positive attributes, I believe that I would use WP if I were just starting to use a CMS system. WP is used by some major blogs and websites, so it is definitely viable for a larger business site.

[Baculus]

Here is a good overview that touches on modules, templates, page layouts and free plugins. There are literally hundreds of free plugins (he uses docman as an example). Free templates, etc. It took me about an hour to get a pretty good feel for it. I have extensive experience in website design, html, perl scripting, macromedia web development tools, etc. I also had websites I built from scratch with shopping carts. Since finding Joomla, I would never build a website again without using some sort of content management system like Joomla. You can incorporate your google maps, keep pics in whatever directory you want, etc. It's all flexible.

If you use godaddy or many of the popular hosting sites, Joomla is a free add on and they install it all for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htdawgn_79g

All cool Joomla stuff. I have the same sentiments: since using a CMS system, I will avoid having to hand hack a website. Joomla and WP just makes life easier for developers and administrators.

[Baculus]

Lots to consider here. Thanks for the input.

My biggest issue is that I have several hundred pages already live that I really don't want to do over again. And if I *do* have to do them over again, I want to make the changes as simply, easily, and quickly as possible.

That's the beauty of a CMS system -- you can use templates to make the changes throughout your entire site with just a few clicks of the mouse. Especially if you have a large site, and yours sounds quite extensive.

As an FYI, I'm using dreamweaver MX 04 for site building. I'm on an OLD PPC mac and that's all I have. It uses CSS behind the scenes for some things but I don't know much about it. It has templates that you can build and use to build other pages from so that all the pages can be updated from the templates but it's a pain to build the pages that way.

I used to also use Dreamweaver templating, and, from such experience, a CMS system will make your life a bit less painful.

I'll take a good look at wordpress but I have very specific custom needs like for the panoramas and custom google maps (for instance - all pages must be in the same directory for the maps to work and update easily) and I dont want my visitors to see a bunch of wordpress branding. I want them to see the site as daytonavr.com. Period.

As someone mentioned, you can remove the branding. RE: the Google maps, were these maps created via Google Maps, or is it some sort of script? EDIT: It looks like the Google Maps javascript is being used. These probably can be embedded into a page via the CMS.

If you wanted to fiddle around with WP, it is possible you could install it on a sub-directory to play around with it.

[chipwhich]

It's funny because I was down in Atlanta last week and a good friend of mine, my girlfriend and I were just talking about how Wordpress is on the come up, and the new features of 3.0 will really make it attractive to web designers (we're all web developers/designers).

I haven't looked into Wordpress. I always thought it was more of a "blogging" mechanism. I will play with it.

[Baculus]

Lots to consider here. Thanks for the input.

My biggest issue is that I have several hundred pages already live that I really don't want to do over again. And if I *do* have to do them over again, I want to make the changes as simply, easily, and quickly as possible.

Regarding your current design, I think you could probably keep the same design, but just add "stretchable" cells in you tables by using percentages instead of fixed width parameters. You would also have to make the navigation bar "stretchable," and you could expand the top image by increasing its width with a solid blue area (which is already present) on the right side of the image. At least you wouldn't have to radically redesign the pages in this manner.

[Baculus]

I haven't looked into Wordpress. I always thought it was more of a "blogging" mechanism. I will play with it.

It's matured over the last couple of years, making it a nice alternative for non-blogging sites as well. Right now, they have over 10.000 plugins at the WP community site, compared to Joomla's 5,000+.

So you have lots of options either way, I suppose!