ES Soccer Thread

[Paddis]

Even more bizarre with Carroll out there at 6 foot odd and nobody wide to supply him. Carroll's overall game has improved tenfold as the season's gone on. He's more aware of what's around him, and his first touch and control is massively improved from when he signed. But his finishing is still shocking. And that's what he's paid to do. I wouldn't off-load him just yet. But he'd be on a very short leash. Adam's got worse as the season's gone on. We knew he never had any pace to start with, but when his passing went to ****, his whole game fell apart and he just went around hacking people down. I wouldn't be sorry to see him go. Enrique, up to the past few months, is the one real success. But like Johnson on the other side, defensively he's woeful. The amount of times both get caught the wrong side of their man, for experienced players, is absolutely criminal. Suarez is the enigma. World class technical ability. League Two finishing ability more often than not. The amount of chances he creates for himself, then blows, really has to be seen to be believed. I really like the guy, and stood fully behind him through the racism B/S; but it's got to the point where your asking if we can afford to carry such a luxury at this stage of the rebuild when his end product is far from always there.

Agree about your fullbacks. Enrique has a dip in form at the moment and was e.g. a bit too involved in Parks goal at Anfield this season, but I feel he's better than Johnson defensively. G. Johnson have I personally never rated highly. He's great going forward but to shakey defensively and I would let Martin Kelly play a bit more next season. I think he looks a lot more promising than especially Flanagan but also Robinson.

Suarez missed a lot, but at the same time he's the only creative force in the team and most of them chances he missed he's created for himself. His balance and game in tight situations are sensational. A bit too moody and a darker side to him (with or without the racism case).

Charlie Adam never looked a top player imo. Never. Great left foot. 5-8 kilos to heavy. He never lasted 90 minutes in a single PL game in Blackpool. He was the heart of that team and it's no coincidence Blackpool were terrible after half time last year. Of course thats not all his fault, but he was such a big part in that team. Lacks to much pace to play as one of 2 in central midfield. If played, he needs to be 1 of 3 I think or against the weakest teams (like Scholes but Scholes better than Adam of course).

And I've also thought about that part with Carroll. If moneyballing then surely he needs some in and out wingers to give him the ball instead of wingers cutting in or players out wide that isnt even wingers. We'll see in the summer, Liverpool should get another quality winger I think but that's maybe not on top of the priorities?

The transfer policy of younger, (supposed) quality players has been right. But the club's judgement of the quality of those players and the profligacy of wasting massive amounts of the owners money hasn't been. And, taking Kenny on face value, if he was the one behind the signings, and he's not just saying that for Camoli's benefit; then that leaves another major question mark against him this go-around.

The ground issue has gone suspiciously quiet. FSG made a big song and dance about looking into all possibilities, but nothing since. And as you quite rightly pointed out, it's imperative it happens sooner rather than later. Aside from that, things have improved dramatically financially. When they bought out the other two clowns, the debt was completely wiped out. And for the first time in living memory, the clubs potential commercially is finally being maximized. The new kit deal with Warrior sports (don't ask) is another example being it's the biggest in Egnlish history (Or at least till' Utd renew with Nike); with Liverpool having full rights to leisure and training wear. Throw in the big ass deal with Standard Charter, along with smaller deals, and the clubs as solvent as it's been for a long time.

So it's not an undue worry financially. But many more years out of the Champions League and it sure as heck will become one.

Those sponsorship deals are great. I've actually thought about that and I was shocked when I found out what Carlsberg were paying. Its seems like the americans really know the business side of things. A lot of things can be said about the Glazers, but they really know how to find profits. Some of it due to increased ticket prices (which I think had to come sooner or later, no matter who owned the club as United had underpriced the tickets for a long time) but also in sponsorship deals etc. United have been increasing the revenues to a whole other level the last years. Of course we are in massive debt so most of the revenues go away but there's hope now if they put United on the stock market in Singapore.

That said, we've still won more trophy's over the past two decades than anyone else bar Utd and Arsenal (who we can equal over the coming months with a cup and charity shield victory); with potentially another two this year. All in a period when we've struggled by our own exceptionally high standards.

So I guess I shouldn't complain that much.

But that's the thing isnt it. Expectations are of course built on what used to be and what you were used to so when a supporter of a smaller team says we cant complain for a season without a trophy I dont think thats the reality of how it is. When you teams perfomances is under par you're in the right to complain, that's at least my view of things. A Liverpool supporter should expect a lot more than whats been the case in the league this season.

Talking about complaining and dissapointments. I've missed 4-5 Euro aways the last 5 years now and basically been all over Europe. When we got knocked out in Basel, only 3 players turned to the fans after the game; Rooney, Smalling and Phil Jones. I've seldom been so dissapointet of the boys as I was at that moment. People taking time off work and studies to travel to Portugal (freakin expensive), f.ing Bucharest and Basel that season and they dont even seem to appreciate the support we give them at every single away. Instead they ran straight into the tunell like small girls. They were probably ashamed of course, but nobody feels the players pain the same way as the supporters do. But I guess thats the way it is now. An industry filled with selfish people. A shame.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

We've been screaming for long enough for Kelly to be the first choice right back (he's actually a more natural center half, and just as solid there) with Johnson ahead of him to give us an outlet out wide. But Kenny and co sadly have other ideas. It's become more and more apparent this year that Flanagan's not going to cut it at the top level. Jack Robinson on the other hand I have real high hopes for. But whether he'll get his chance anytime soon now Enriques here remains to be seen. We'd sure as heck better have a winger down on our summer priorities list, but with the ridiculous amount of over payment for Downing and the woeful Henderson last summer, we probably won't. I'd also like to see Sterling at least on the bench more. If he keeps on progressing at his current rate, we've a serious talent on our hands there ala McManaman when he broke through.

Don't get me started on today's players and their attitude. The game I grew up, save for 11 aside, the officials and pitch markings, is that far removed from the sanitized version of today it's unreal. Football's changed beyond all recognition from my youth. And not for the better in many ways. But if I started on that I'd be here all night.

And rest assured we still do have and expect the highest expectations of the team. Neither ourselves or Utd have a divine right to be winning things. But more than any other football clubs in this Country, after all we've both achieved; we sure as Hell have a right to expect to be challenging year-on-year. This season has to be seen as a success if we do win the Cup in a few weeks. 2 out of the 3 domestic trophy's is better than a fourth place finish and no trophy's by a Country mile. But rest assured it's not been lost on many just how much we've regressed as the season's gone on in the league. And the honeymoon period for Dalglish is wearing VERY thin with more and more fans. I was just making the point that as poor as we've been the last two decades where it really counts, we've still managed to consistently win silverware. But no Liverpool fan is happy at just how far behind we've behind. We are, in a lot of ways, L'pool in name only. And no better or bigger on the pitch than the vast majority of the mediocrity in the Premier League. Except we have history and money behind us. A totally unacceptable state of affairs.

Next season they all have to start producing on a consistent basis. Or it won't just be the supporters unhappy. FSG will be acting too.

BTW, it's a pleasure to talk to a Utd fan with no bias who isn't afraid to tell it exactly like it is on his own club as opposed to the majority of modern day Utd 'fans' who think the club can do no wrong. (And we have our fair share of those morons too.).

Hail.

[RichmondRedskin88]

Damn, you were probably standing very close to me. I was in the front row of the Barra section waving one of those huge flags.

You are right, I definitely had a delayed reaction when we scored the first goal. I thought it was in the side netting.

On the second goal I literally jumped out of my shoe and started celebrating before starting a "**** you ref" chant

Yeah I was in absolute celebration and then my friend turned to me with a frown and I knew. I went off like hell. Being denied a goal hurts but a game winning one in the 89th min just outright stings.

[jobaga]

I think Johnson is under-rated as a defender and Kelly is over-rated going forward. It does help when Kuyt plays on the right (his work rate is phenomenal) which allows Johnson to be more aggressive. Kelly should be a center half and will be a good one.

[jlovell24]

Personally I think 3 central defenders isn't enough if not one of the full backs can play in the center and the backup for that fullback is quite good. I dont rate Koscielny either which leaves Vermaelen as the only top center back in the club at the moment imo. With his history of injuries, I think having him, Koscielny and Verthongen is a bit weak. I dont really count Mertesacker and Djorou cause playing them is disaster.

In central midfield I think you've got enough depth, not enough quality (like United). Many good players, only Wilshire top class. Alex Song the closest imo, even though Rosicky's really found form the last months and Arteta's been pretty good. If you compare it to the top midfields in Europe though, it's nowhere near the same quality. Not that thats needed to win the premiership, obviously with Uniteds midfield this season, but then you'd at least need to compensate somewhere else.

I agree with you on the wingers. I dont really like Walcott, to inconsistent and lack of end product but on his good days he's immense. The same goes for Gevinho (Walcott a bit better though).

Its as much a gut feeling and based on experience and Arsenals experience and mentality that makes me so sure Arsenal wont be properly challenging for the title coming season, but you're more than welcome to point it out in a year if I'm wrong. I dont necessarily think Chelsea will finish above Arsenal coming season, but if one of them will be challenging for the title I'm sure thats the blue for south London.

United have had a good goalie in VDS for a long time but before that there was a terrible mess in goal for many years, and so was the situation before Christmas this season. I feel our defenders both this season and the past years deserve more credit than our goalie. The central defence has been superb since 06/07 and the biggest reason for our success.

Not so sure Bale will be gone this summer if Spurs dont qualify. Not many clubs can put out that kind of money, and I think Jordi Alba is a more probable left back for Barca this summer than Bale. Bale is no where near where he should be defensively as a full back.

You seem like you watch quite a lot of english soccer. Are many places in and around DC showing the Premiership? Ever been to Emirates/Highbury btw?


Behind Debuchy and Reveillere?

I don't post often, but I have to reply here. I'm a huge Arsenal fan, and can definitively tell you that, this season, Koscielny's been Arsenal's best defender. Vermaelen's great, and is a solid threat in the air and with his left foot, but he's been at fault for a number of goals this season, while Kos has been a rock.

As for Sagna - FrFan, I could care less whether he makes the French team - it's irrelevant to how he's played for Arsenal (and it's not exactly like French managers have a history of logical selection practices), and he's the best RB in England (the only ones that come close atm are ivaonvic and possibly richards).

Tend to agree with you on the other points, though I think the wingers aren't terrible. Walcott, Gervinho, Oxlade-Chamberlin and Ryo Myaichi (on loan to Bolton) are a group that could cause some problems in the near future.

Biggest issues that need rectifying moving forward are another forward, a LB, and a 3rd CB.

[RichmondRedskin88]

GHH we're not all delusional Utd supporters. In fact the other week you were saying I was giving the Premier league too much credit lol because I said we would have a tough time defending the title the next few years. Most Utd supporters know where the weaknesses are in the team as well as the strengths(Unfortunately you will some that only know one name on the club). I'm curious about Chelsea next year based on what I've seen lately. I say less as Utd supporter and more of football fan that I hope Liverpool does straighten the ship. Tough to see a club with that much history dive like this especially with the great supporters you have.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

GHH we're not all delusional Utd supporters. In fact the other week you were saying I was giving the Premier league too much credit lol because I said we would have a tough time defending the title the next few years. Most Utd supporters know where the weaknesses are in the team as well as the strengths(Unfortunately you will some that only know one name on the club). I'm curious about Chelsea next year based on what I've seen lately. I say less as Utd supporter and more of football fan that I hope Liverpool does straighten the ship. Tough to see a club with that much history dive like this especially with the great supporters you have.

Meh, I wasn't speaking about people on these here boards man, More in England, where your average Utd fan outside of Manchester is akin to your average Dallas fan outside of Texas in the States, And since the advent of the Premier League, we have our fair share of that type of 'fan' too who continue to embarrass the living piss out of you. Sorry if it came across as anything personal as it certainly wasn't intended that way. Without wishing to sound condescending in any way, the knowledge of Americans on here, particularly the regulars in this thread, on 'soccer' is a delight to see; and makes it a real pleasure to both read and debate with all you guys.

Thanks for the kind words on L'pool, but we're still a good ways from challenging again.

Hail.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

So Madrid finally win a Classico, and Ronaldo finally turns up in the biggest of big games.

Changing of the guard in Spain.

And the rent boys better watch out Tuesday now as Barca's season looks like it's resting on that. Perfect scenario.

Hail.

[SkinInsite]

So Madrid finally win a Classico, and Ronaldo finally turns up in the biggest of big games.

Changing of the guard in Spain.

And the rent boys better watch out Tuesday now as Barca's season looks like it's resting on that. Perfect scenario.

Hail.

I

Madrid has figured out how to stop Messi. Barca should probably think about getting another goal scorer.

[RichmondRedskin88]

There's a USL ref who needs to jump off a cliff. In the 90th min Kickers goalie charged for a ball in his box as a OC player tries to get it. Both get the ball and it flies out of bounds. Our goalie is flipped in collision and lays motionless for about 7 mins. The other player gets right back up. The ref proceeds to call a penalty(WTF) and Kickers lose.

[Elessar78]

You guys really think Barca's been "figured" out? Chelsea beat them with an opportune counter by a pass that went past 4 Barca defenders for a sick off balance finish. Not to mention Barca hit the post and were just wide several times. Madrid needed an innocuous turnover by Tello (where he might've gotten grabbed by the defender), a perfectly timed run by Ronaldo, a very nice pass, and a finish from a very tight angle?

Very few teams can muster that kind of luck or skill in a span of three days. Also, if I'm Barca I wouldn't change anything about how I played Chelsea—they dominated but unfortunate about the posts and one counter. I'm also not sure that "Madrid figured out how to stop Messi" permanently.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Wow. Maybe I was a bit premature handed Utd a 20th Championship a page or so back.

Blowing a 2 goal lead against the bitters? At home, with the trophy in touching distance? Just WOW.

And now it's all back in Citeh's hands. Win out, and they more than likely win it with the goal difference and opposition left.

Just WOW! I hate to say this, but COME ON CITY! (Lesser of two evils.).

And no Elessar, I don't think Barca's been 'figured out' for one minute. They won't be as profligate on Tuesday as they where at the Bridge and I fully expect Chelsea to get battered out there. your being a tad disingenuous to Madrid though. They fully deserved that last night and for once Ronaldo dominated a 'Classico' whilst Messi had an off day. If the lil' Argentine genius is saving it for the rent boys, it'll be worth the wait.



---------- Post added April-22nd-2012 at 08:58 AM ----------

Madrid has figured out how to stop Messi. Barca should probably think about getting another goal scorer.

They have the best forward in World soccer currently desperately trying to get fit for the Nations Cup this summer man in David Villa.

Him and Pedro's goals have been a big loss this year through injury. But then they've almost scored a 100 league goals this term so their hardly lacking in that department regardless.

Hail.

[RichmondRedskin88]

I don't know how you give up a 2 goal lead at home with 10 mins left with the trophy right there. Ridiculous. If we blow our 20th championship we literally have no one to blame but ourselves.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

This, on the back of screwing up at Wigan the other week has left me utterly stunned RR.

Very happy I'm sure you'll appreciate, but utterly stunned.

Although that said it would be just typical of City to go screw up at Wolves now.

Hail.

[RichmondRedskin88]

This, on the back of screwing up at Wigan the other week has left me utterly stunned RR.

Very happy I'm sure you'll appreciate, but utterly stunned.

Although that said it would be just typical of City to go screw up at Wolves now.

Hail.

Even if City blew it against the Wolves I'd still be pissed. This is the time of the year you bring your A game. We should be smelling blood at this point. How the heck you give up back to back goals in 2 mins is just unbelievable. At home no less.We shouldn't need other teams to fall on their faces for us to claim the trophy. We had a stranglehold on the league and than all of a sudden we decide now would be a good time to screw up. All of soccer/football teams are disappointing me right now. Man Utd trying to choke away the title, going up to DC to see DCU draw with MTL(wtf), and Richmond's team getting screwed on a PK last night. I'd do three facepalms right now if I didn't want the headache.