ES Soccer Thread

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

That is so ridiculous in general terms it's not worth debating.

Hail.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

idk why its ridiculous, did Rafa not remove him from the CM spot? Did Gerrard subsequently score 20 goals from the right?

Did Liverpool go down 3-0 against Milan, and then tie it up after Gerrard was moved out right?

did Rafa move him off Torres and Gerrard won English football POY?

you are acting like I made this up

Gerrard never developed the footballing brain to play central midfield at a high enough level. He did those long range shots and is a "clutch" player, but a lot of that is down to him being a limited CM in his prime because he felt the need to do everything which resulted in him being out of position. Its a big problem with British midfielders in general, many get to the high level but lack discipline. Roy of the Rovers.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

It's ridiculous for you to suggest he can't be efective as a standard central midfielder. (A role in a 4 he's played for the vast majority of his career.).

THAT'S what's ridiculous. The fact that in Benitez's system, he was the focal point of the three playing off Torres just adds another string to his bow and contradicts your misguided assertion that he doesn't have the football brain to play in other positions.

So yes, that alone is RIDICULOUS.

Hail.

*Edit* And he didn't end up on the right in Istanbul. We went to a 5 in midfield, sacrificing Stevie Finnan at H/T for the man that totally changed that game, Didi Hamman, who took out the influence of Kaka who was majestic first half. Xabi and Didi sat, Garcia was on the right, Riise on the left, with Steven supporting the front two (which was more Smicer playing off Baros, and then Cisse) through middle .

Totally agree he got FAR too much praise not only for the final, but the run upto it. Ironically, Igor fricking Biscan was the major midfield influence in the knock-out stages whilst Steven was out injured. And Hamann was the best player in the final. But Steven laughably won the UEFA MVP for the '05 European season for the Olympiacos and final goal.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

It's ridiculous for you to suggest he can't be efective as a standard central midfielder. (A role in a 4 he's played for the vast majority of his career.).

THAT'S what's ridiculous. The fact that in Benitez's system, he was the focal point of the three playing off Torres just adds another string to his bow and contradicts your misguided assertion that he doesn't have the football brain to play in other positions.

So yes, that alone is RIDICULOUS.

Hail.

I didnt say he couldnt play standard CM? I said he was never close to world class/influential there. The best midfielders gave him the run around because of how stupid he is there. But he is better than Dickson Etuhu, so I guess thats fair.

and Gerrard was playing OFF Torres and out wide right. Those were his best two seasons at Liverpool. Rafa asked Xabi to control the matches and Mascherano to be the destroyer. Gerrard wasnt allowed to drift back into the midfield once he was played further up because he could not be trusted.

And I said he doesnt have a footballing brain because he doesnt. What Gerrard does have is good technique, great ball striking ability, and was an outstanding athlete. Once his athleticism fell off, he wasnt anywhere near the player he was in his prime. Contrast that to Paul Scholes who, altho he doesnt have the legs to play 90 minutes, is still an effective midfielder. Even Frank Lampard is still a very good central midfielder when told to be discipline even with his athleticism declining. Pirlo is older than Gerrard, but is sitll an excellent central midfielder.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Again, a totally ridiculous slight on a guy who has been, amongst other things, a World class central midfielder for large amounts of his career. Hell, even under Benitez he played a good chunk as a central partner to Xabi, before Rafa went ubber cautious.

And his best 'goal scoring' seasons at Anfield may of been under Benitez playing off the lone forward (playing him wide, although he did a good enough job out there as he does everywhere on the field, just negated his effectiveness. But then that suited Benitez's safety first approach). as a second striker, but he was equally as 'influential' under Houllier in a four. I'd probably put the second treble winning season in '01 as Steven's best year overall personally, but it's subjective.

Hail.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Again, a totally ridiculous slight on a guy who has been, amongst other things, a World class central midfielder for large amounts of his career. Hell, even under Benitez he played a good chunk as a central partner to Xabi, before Rafa went ubber cautious.

yup, and Liverpool were not good.

And they went uber cautious in 2008-9, and ended up leading the league in goals scored. They were probably the best team in the premiership that year, tbh. And where was Gerrard? not playing CM.

He was never a world class CM, he was never a better CM than Lampard, Cesc, Scholes, Xavi, Xabi, Pirlo, Seedorf, and a bunch of others. What Gerrard has always been is a great athlete, which helped to clean up his mental deficiencies at CM.

And his best 'goal scoring' seasons at Anfield may of been under Benitez playing off the lone forward (playing him wide, although he did a good enough job out there as he does everywhere on the field, just negated his effectiveness. But then that suited Benitez's safety first approach). as a second striker, but he was equally as 'influential' under Houllier in a four. I'd probably put the second treble winning season in '01 as Steven's best year overall personally, but it's subjective.

Hail.

his best season was 2008-9 when he was recognized as POY and was rightfully given that award.

He is just not intelligent enough to play centrally. I am interested how this new system with Rodgers works because Rodgers is all about discipline possession football which Gerrard has struggled with.

---------- Post added August-11th-2012 at 11:39 PM ----------

edit, he won writers footballer of the year in 2009

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

The debate on Gerrards ability is patently not worth discussing as you've a misguided opinion on them, and it's just going around and around in circles. (Steven Gerrard had too many 'mentality deficiencies' to be a World Class central midfield ..... priceless. ).


Again, his best season at the club is subjective. You could make a great argument for two or three. And he won't be struggling with anything in Rodgers system as he won't be constricted like he was under Benitez. It was refreshing to see him having free licence to roam through the week now Lucas is back to sit. Last year, he was getting played so ridiculously deep he was almost a sweeper. Again, totally negating what he does best.

Through age and injury, he's certainly not the all dominating midfield force he once was (however much you try slight him as not being); but with younger legs around him, and a quick paced attacking pass and move philosophy being re-introduced, he might well fluriish in the twilight of his career with the new, fresh atmosphere under Rodgers.

Hail.

*Edit* Oh, and Liverpool were not very good to watch at most any time under Benitez, save for the second half of '09. And that wasn't down to the manager, who cost them the title with his negativity in the first half of the season. That was player power that forced that change and the reigns being taking off lead by Gerrard and Carragher, the two Benitez for all his power hungry want didn't dare take on. The fact he reverted to his safety first playing not to win, but not to get beat type the season after instead of continuing in the same, free flowing attacking vein said it all about the man.

[Rodriggo]

Gerrard can't be Liverpool's best option but he was last season b/c the other guys around him, Henderson, Downey and Adam were very pedestrian. Those guys together has to be one of the worst midfields in the EPL. After Meireles left their ability to create went with him. But put Gerrard with some more talent around him and he'll be just fine, you can't just throw out that kind of leadership or talent. Liverpool has to boot Luis Enrique square on his *** though, he is terrible. I'll never understand how SBs that aren't attacking specialists and aren't fast enough to cover the ground they constantly give up when they do can start at that level.

Liverpool need a left SB and a quick athletic offensive MF, IMHO.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Obviously a cultural/ language thing, but what's an 'SB' man? I'm presuming it's another term for a fullback being as you referenced Enrique. 'Side back' maybe? Shrugs. Just never heard the term.

On Jose, yeah, his form dipped dramatically as last season went on. He started off fantastically well, but after Christmas, he was shocking in both facets. We have a real sound, promising left back in Jack Robinson who I really hope becomes more involved in the first team this year as he takes the next step in his career. As regards the midfield slots, he's just added Joe Allen, who, whilst ridiculously over priced as any British player tends to be; is a very tidy young playmaker to add into the mix. Be interesting to see how he fits in, as Lucas takes the deep lying position he had at Swansea last season. Joe Cole being back and finally appreciated by a L'pool manager should be a massive bonus if he can stay fit. Wonderful lil' player through his career that's been very harshly treated at Anfield. And there's still another few weeks until the window, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more moves yet.

Oh, I'll be SHOCKED if last years three HIGHLY expensive flops you mentioned, Adam, Henderson and Downing, are at the football club after this season bar a miraculous turnaround.

Hail.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

The debate on Gerrards ability is patently not worth discussing as you've a misguided opinion on them, and it's just going around and around in circles. (Steven Gerrard had too many 'mentality deficiencies' to be a World Class central midfield ..... priceless. ).

because he does have too many deficiencies to be a world class central midfielder. Rafa realized this and told him to get out of the way, and Liverpool had their best premiership season with Gerrard out of the way centrally. He was a great athlete so it made up for a lot of his issues, but he was never a world class central midfielder. He cant control the tempo of a match, doesnt understand that you do not have to play Hollywood balls all the time, and do not need to be everywhere to make a play. He never developed the tactical nous and mentality to really shine there. He looked "great" centrally even tho Liverpool were never that good of a side because that club indulged their Scouse hero. Only Rafa had the balls to say, "You cant play this position," and Liverpool actually looked like a really good side. I dont get how this is hard to understand, there have been many articles in the reputable newspapers in England that have talked about this.

Again, his best season at the club is subjective. You could make a great argument for two or three. And he won't be struggling with anything in Rodgers system as he won't be constricted like he was under Benitez. It was refreshing to see him having free licence to roam through the week now Lucas is back to sit. Last year, he was getting played so ridiculously deep he was almost a sweeper. Again, totally negating what he does best.

with the way Rodgers is setting things up, it looks like Allen and Lucas will be holding things down centrally and Gerrard will be playing off Suarez. Which. Is. Where. Rafa. Was. Playing. Him.

Gerrard cant sit in central midfield because he is tactically not a good fit there. Give him the freedom to go forward and you see a really good player, altho he is older now.

Through age and injury, he's certainly not the all dominating midfield force he once was (however much you try slight him as not being); but with younger legs around him, and a quick paced attacking pass and move philosophy being re-introduced, he might well fluriish in the twilight of his career with the new, fresh atmosphere under Rodgers.

where Gerrard is playing off Suarez. Rodgers looks smart to realize that he is not a central midfielder.

*Edit* Oh, and Liverpool were not very good to watch at most any time under Benitez, save for the second half of '09. And that wasn't down to the manager, who cost them the title with his negativity in the first half of the season. That was player power that forced that change and the reigns being taking off lead by Gerrard and Carragher, the two Benitez for all his power hungry want didn't dare take on. The fact he reverted to his safety first playing not to win, but not to get beat type the season after instead of continuing in the same, free flowing attacking vein said it all about the man.

except Rafa told Gerrard that he is not playing central midfield on his watch

I remember Gerrard was crying about being moved too. It was hilarious.

I do agree that Rafa was defensive, but having Gerrard play off Torres is why they exploded as an attack that year.

and Liverpool's problem has been indulging their heroes (Gerrard, Dalglish, etc) and listening to their fans.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

You keep on replying with post after post of rambling fluff on Gerrards abilitys, or lack there of in your assertion; interspersed with some relevant points (mainly from the Benitez era, which is interesting. I'm getting the feeling your a Rafa fan the amount of times your referencing him and nobody else); alongside a whole host of inaccurate hyperbole and claimed actual facts; but ultimately ridiculous fluff.

Had you said way back when through these posts that you think Stevens best position is an attacking midfielder/ playing off a lone striker/ 2nd striker role; or that you think he's far more effective in the other position your stuck on, when he's been played out the right; as opposed to him in an old fashioned central midfield role; all your 'fluff' would of had a relevant point.

But to continue to slight and totally dismiss him in that continues to make said fluff (the word seemed appropriate) what it is. Absolutely ridiculous.

But thank you for the entertainment.

Hail.

[Kilmer17]

US vs Mexico tonight at 7 on the deuce.

Should be full sides for both with a sprinkling of newcomers to see how they fit.

The US has NEVER won a game in Mexico.

[ixcuincle]

Good job by Fox Soccer of seizing the Women's World Cup and putting it on a channel nobody gets.

Really enthralled by women's soccer recently. Riveted to my PC / TV for every women's soccer game

[renaissance]

Disappointed that Chris Pontius didn't get called up for this game.

[RichmondRedskin88]

Disappointed that Chris Pontius didn't get called up for this game.

That wasn't on Jurgen. Olsen told him no.

---------- Post added August-15th-2012 at 12:03 PM ----------

US vs Mexico tonight at 7 on the deuce.

Should be full sides for both with a sprinkling of newcomers to see how they fit.

The US has NEVER won a game in Mexico.

Full sides? Jurgen took a bunch from the Mexican league and MLS to put together a makeshift team(Friendlies in August are horrible because leagues start back up. Plus it's not a official FIFA data anymore so clubs don't have to release our players. Mexico only did since they let the Mexican players go). We're missing quite a few players in European leagues(Dempsey & Bradley are the most notable. Bradley is injured though). In retrospect it's like a B team(maybe C) vs Mexico A/B. I'll be surprised if we don't lose by 3 honestly.