The Official Washington Wizards Thread

[stevemcqueen1]

McQueen, who would you take Isiah Thomas or Michael Jordan? In their primes of course.

If the team's are identicaly, I'd take Jordan there. Isiah from the 80's used to whup up on Jordan from the 80's, but his team was clearly better and more competitive. There is a clear difference in their caliber as players. Jordan is unquestionably the best two guard ever while I'd put Isiah behind Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, and at least John Stockton in PG rankings. I think Gary Payton might have been considered better than Isiah if he'd ever been able to win a championship in his prime. At least, I know I would rather have Payton than Thomas.

Plus when you've got a scoring 2 like Jordan who was also a great defender and ball handler, I don't think there is a huge difference in positional value between him and a true PG. You can run the offense through Jordan and it will go smoothly. But I do still maintain there is a difference in positional value between that type of 2 guard and a dominant true center like Kareem, Wilt, or Russell in his era. Wilt and Russell came from such a different era it's hard to say whether or not I'd take them on a team over Jordan. Would Russell have dominated in the paint against the type of bigs Jordan played against? Would Wilt have?

I'd consider taking Magic or Robertson over Jordan if I were trying to build a championship team. Again, Robertson is tough to say though because he did his damage in the 70's. But when you get into a discussion of Jordan versus Magic, Kareem, Robertson, Chamberlain, and Russell, you're probably talking about 6 of the 7 greatest to ever play the game. You could clearly build around any of them.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

GACOLB, even the 1st half of the 2007-2008 season before we got Gabby IIRC it wasn't too packed. Win and they will come. Who's the Big Tree?

Come on man. Typo. The Big Three. And the few games I was able to afford to go to back in their heyday, the Phone Booth was packed. While the home opener wasn't as empty as some made it out to be *cough*chadflukes*cough* but it wasn't filled like it should be. Strasburg's debut was insane, you'd think Wall's would be similar. I know he wasn't nearly as hyped as Jesus but the Verizon Center is a third of the size of Nats Park.

I still contend that DC is a basketball town though. Wall is going to wake up that sleeping giant.


Vishal, maybe I was too zoned in on Javale's breathing issues last night. He has REALLY impressed me lately though. I'm a believer. Focus on defense and rebounding and just dunk it when Wall throws it to you. He's gonna be a top 5 center. A Grunfeld steal at 18. (And he's leading my NBA2K league in blocks, 2.8 per.)

And yeah, Blatche is a fat slob right now. They did a piece about it in the Post last week. Had a bum wheel and couldn't work out. Then he's got sleep problems so he just watches TV and eats junk food all night. (It's a dedication, maturity, and professionalism issue imo)

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Strasburg's debut was insane, you'd think Wall's would be similar. I know he wasn't nearly as hyped as Jesus but the Verizon Center is a third of the size of Nats Park.

I still contend that DC is a basketball town though. Wall is going to wake up that sleeping giant.

DC is not a professional basketball town. DC is an amateur basketball town. The Bullets/Wizards will never be as popular as successful DC football or baseball, though it should easily eclipse hockey if/when the basketball team becomes contenders.

[stevemcqueen1]

DC is not a professional basketball town. DC is an amateur basketball town. The Bullets/Wizards will never be as popular as successful DC football or baseball, though it should easily eclipse hockey if/when the basketball team becomes contenders.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. First, winning will change things, especially if the Redskins remain inept. Is Boston still a hockey town? Plus, D.C. gets so much new blood every year and a lot of people seem to move there from the north east. With them comes a love of baseball and basketball. More casual fans will abandon their old teams if the DC ones get good.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I picked Isiah because he was the last PG to star and be THE guy on a championship team. (And I agree that Payton was prob the superior PG.) But to my point, positional value is important, we agree there. But you have to look at the individual players. The top 1 isn't automatically more valueable than the top wing player. I think Durant is the next Jordan. He might not be the defender that Jordan was, yet, but the sky is the limit for him. He will be universally recognized as the best basketball player in the world in two years. And I think he is the type of player (perimeter/wing or not) to take a team to a championship. I'm taking him over everyone in the league right now. So our disagreement is that. How we view Kevin Durant. Not whether a PG is more important than a 2 or a 3.

And he did carry the U.S. to the FIBA gold. They lose the game against Brazil if not for him. And I think he scored a FIBA record in the gold medal game.

[pjfootballer]

I have a strange feeling that the Wiz are about to turn the corner.

I could be wrong but its just a feeling I have.

That's just the burrito you ate.

DC is not a professional basketball town. DC is an amateur basketball town. The Bullets/Wizards will never be as popular as successful DC football or baseball, though it should easily eclipse hockey if/when the basketball team becomes contenders.

Agree. DC is a football town when you talk about popularity of the pro sports teams. Overall, if you include college basketball or HS basketball, Basketball may be the most popular.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. First, winning will change things, especially if the Redskins remain inept. Is Boston still a hockey town? Plus, D.C. gets so much new blood every year and a lot of people seem to move there from the north east. With them comes a love of baseball and basketball. More casual fans will abandon their old teams if the DC ones get good.

You're qualifying what I'm saying. Success being equal, the NBA franchise will always play third-fiddle in my opinion. Of course if the Redskins and Nats struggle for 10 more years while the Wizards challenge for the Eastern Conference each year, there will be an uptick just like we saw with the Caps (as they've been the only successful team for the past couple years). However, if the teams have similar success, the order will always be football, baseball, basketball, and hockey.

Also, you think transplants from the northeast will abandon their teams to follow the DC sports teams? This town is filled with out-of-town fans...why would people suddenly become loyal to their current city in 2010 when they haven't for decades? At this point in time, there is no incentive to abandon the team you grew up rooting for since it's so much easier to follow in the age of internet, TV sports packages, etc.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

DC is not a professional basketball town. DC is an amateur basketball town. The Bullets/Wizards will never be as popular as successful DC football or baseball, though it should easily eclipse hockey if/when the basketball team becomes contenders.

We'll have to agree to disagree. But SteveM is right. Give the area a winning team and a top 3 player and the Verizon Center will be bumping and Bullets jersey's will be all over the place. And I'm not sure how you can claim that DC is a bigger baseball town than a basketball town. We had two teams and lost them. And our current one isn't exactly spurring conversations in the masses outside of the hype sideshow of Strasburg.


Me personally, I'm about sick of the Redskins. I'll take a Wiz championship over a Skins Super Bowl. The whole thing is just so tainted and played out at this point. From the ownership to the media to the fanbase. The whole thlng is just one big headache. It's not fun anymore. But that's just me.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Agree. DC is a football town when you talk about popularity of the pro sports teams. Overall, if you include college basketball or HS basketball, Basketball may be the most popular.

Yep, high school and college basketball has a rich tradition here. Professional basketball does not.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

We'll have to agree to disagree. But SteveM is right. Give the area a winning team and a top 3 player and the Verizon Center will be bumping and Bullets jersey's will be all over the place. And I'm not sure how you can claim that DC is a bigger baseball town than a basketball town. We had two teams and lost them. And our current one isn't exactly spurring conversations in the masses outside of the hype sideshow of Strasburg.


Me personally, I'm about sick of the Redskins. I'll take a Wiz championship over a Skins Super Bowl. The whole thing is just so tainted and played out at this point. From the ownership to the media to the fanbase. The whole thlng is just one big headache. It's not fun anymore. But that's just me.

I can't comment on what teams mean more to individuals. You may well be a bigger Wizard fan than Redskin fan. But you're the exception. Agree or disagree all you want, it's true.

As I said, of course a sustained run by ANY local team while the other local teams play horribly is going to give that team a temporary position at the top. What I'm saying is, success being relatively equal, basketball won't challenge football or baseball. A winning Redskin and Nationals team will garner more attention and support than a winning Wizards team.

[DjTj]

Come on man. Typo. The Big Three. And the few games I was able to afford to go to back in their heyday, the Phone Booth was packed. While the home opener wasn't as empty as some made it out to be *cough*chadflukes*cough* but it wasn't filled like it should be. Strasburg's debut was insane, you'd think Wall's would be similar. I know he wasn't nearly as hyped as Jesus but the Verizon Center is a third of the size of Nats Park.

Unfortunately, Wall's debut was on Election Day, so I think a lot of people had other plans. I was given four free club level tickets because nobody else in my office wanted them.

The Strasburg debut also had a lot more time to build hype. He was blowing people away in the minors and his starting date was a moving target. Part of the fun was getting tickets for the right day, and he was only pitching in maybe 15-20 games in the season, so it was a rare opportunity, whereas John Wall would be playing 40 times. And I think any knowledgeable basketball fan would know that seeing Wall late this season will be better than seeing his debut because a point guard on a new time takes time to develop chemistry with his teammates. A pitcher is going to be lights out from the beginning, so the debut was the place to be. Also, baseball tickets are a lot cheaper than basketball tickets.

In any case, while Strasburg games sold out, other Nats games still had pretty mediocre attendance. If the Wizards start making playoff runs, the Verizon Center will be packed again. Caps tickets actually weren't that hard to find in the beginning of the Caps' run two years ago. Caps tickets were going for below face at the beginning of the 2008 playoffs. It wasn't until the next season that things really took off. Outside of the Redskins, this is a bandwagon town.

[stevemcqueen1]

Yep, high school and college basketball has a rich tradition here. Professional basketball does not.

But that suggests the region loves basketball. This is definitely the case in Southern Virginia, where I'm from. Basketball is the most popular sport to play, and almost nobody in the region has an entrenched loyalty to an NBA franchise yet. I think there are a lot of fence-sitting potential Wizards fans like I was. Growing up, everyone I knew picked their favorite NBA teams based on their favorite players. Most like the Lakers because they like watching Kobe Bryant. Putting a spectacular one like Wall on the Wizards ensures those fans will pick them. Say we finish the year with a high enough pick to draft Harrison Barnes and I think you'll only end up courting the rabid Carolina demographic even more since Wall is from Raleigh too. The Bobcats are in Charlotte which is far enough away that you aren't automatically going to get the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill base and they certainly aren't an entrenched team.

I'm with GACOLB about being jaded with the Redskins. The franchise has been so incredibly frustrating because of its stubborn pattern of ineptness. I don't think I can take another offseason where we refuse to bite the bullet and make a concerted effort to improve by stockpiling draft picks. Hell at this point, I'd settle for simply keeping our original ones and using them. Plus the NFL is a mess with such a high level of unfairness built into the game that it's driving me away. Things like the Lions losing a game because of a horrendously worded catch rule should just not happen in 2010. Couple that with the fact that the game day experience of the NFL is so inferior to watching at home, plus the fact that the pacing of NFL games is infuriating with all of the advertisements, and that the media coverage of the sport is so unbearably awful; it's shocking that the league is as popular as it has been. Especially since football is such a complex game where individual performance is difficult to isolate and the vast majority of the action happens away from the ball--it discourages laymen from following it.

[Sticksboi05]

In any case, while Strasburg games sold out, other Nats games still had pretty mediocre attendance. If the Wizards start making playoff runs, the Verizon Center will be packed again. Caps tickets actually weren't that hard to find in the beginning of the Caps' run two years ago. Caps tickets were going for below face at the beginning of the 2008 playoffs. It wasn't until the next season that things really took off. Outside of the Redskins, this is a bandwagon town.

And it will be until another team actually win a championship not in the disco era.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

But that suggests the region loves basketball. This is definitely the case in Southern Virginia, where I'm from. Basketball is the most popular sport to play, and almost nobody in the region has an entrenched loyalty to an NBA franchise yet. I think there are a lot of fence-sitting potential Wizards fans like I was. Growing up, everyone I knew picked their favorite NBA teams based on their favorite players. Most like the Lakers because they like watching Kobe Bryant. Putting a spectacular one like Wall on the Wizards ensures those fans will pick them. Say we finish the year with a high enough pick to draft Harrison Barnes and I think you'll only end up courting the rabid Carolina demographic even more since Wall is from Raleigh too. The Bobcats are in Charlotte which is far enough away that you aren't automatically going to get the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill base and they certainly aren't an entrenched team.

I'm with GACOLB about being jaded with the Redskins. The franchise has been so incredibly frustrating because of its stubborn pattern of ineptness. I don't think I can take another offseason where we refuse to bite the bullet and make a concerted effort to improve by stockpiling draft picks. Hell at this point, I'd settle for simply keeping our original ones and using them. Plus the NFL is a mess with such a high level of unfairness built into the game that it's driving me away. Things like the Lions losing a game because of a horrendously worded catch rule should just not happen in 2010. Couple that with the fact that the game day experience of the NFL is so inferior to watching at home, plus the fact that the pacing of NFL games is infuriating with all of the advertisements, and that the media coverage of the sport is so unbearably awful; it's shocking that the league is as popular as it has been. Especially since football is such a complex game where individual performance is difficult to isolate and the vast majority of the action happens away from the ball--it discourages laymen from following it.

Well, if we're going with personal, anecdotal evidence...then I'm someone who flies in the face of what you're saying. I played organized basketball from the age of 6 until I graduated from high school. I've played it recreationally since that time into my 30s. At no point during those years (roughly 1982 until today) have I ever been tempted to start seriously following the Bullets or Wizards. For many who play(ed) the sport (which is a huge contingent in this area) the NBA seems like a different game. I have always preferred to watch the NCAA over the NBA.

All I'm saying is that I just don't see the professional basketball team every trumping the football or baseball teams assuming relatively similar success on the court/field. I don't blame you and GACOLB for losing your enthusiasm for the Redskins...but you're still in the minority when it comes to which professional sport you prefer to follow.

[stevemcqueen1]

Well, if we're going with personal, anecdotal evidence...then I'm someone who flies in the face of what you're saying. I played organized basketball from the age of 6 until I graduated from high school. I've played it recreationally since that time into my 30s. At no point during those years (roughly 1982 until today) have I ever been tempted to start seriously following the Bullets or Wizards. For many who play(ed) the sport (which is a huge contingent in this area) the NBA seems like a different game. I have always preferred to watch the NCAA over the NBA.

All I'm saying is that I just don't see the professional basketball team every trumping the football or baseball teams assuming relatively similar success on the court/field. I don't blame you and GACOLB for losing your enthusiasm for the Redskins...but you're still in the minority when it comes to which professional sport you prefer to follow.

That's the rub though. While I think the future for the Nats is very bright, do you feel the same sense of optimism about the Redskins as you do for the Wizards? Everything Leonsis touches turns to gold, he gives me confidence that the future will not resemble the past when it comes to the Wizards. Add to that we've got an immensely talented young center growing with an immensely talented young pure point guard and it's a formula that instills hope. Plus we've got young role players who have flashed ability and we're also probably going to finish with a very high draft pick this year. The plan for improvement the Wizards are using is coherent. It makes sense, is transparent, and it's one that has worked for other organizations in the past.

I don't think you're going to see the same level of success between each franchise over the course of the next decade. If the Redskins are improving at all, it's going to come extremely slowly since last year was an entirely wasted offseason. We made no positive gains in the draft. We replaced a former perennial All Star left tackle with one who looks like he can be one too. But that's pretty much a status quo move. We traded our other high pick for a shaky QB and then basically threw the rest of our draft picks away... during one of the two or three strongest classes of the decade.