The Official Washington Wizards Thread

[RonArtest15]

Dion Waiters...

If we can somehow acquire a 2nd 1st round pick in the 15-20 range, and Waiters is still on the board (assuming we take a big with our other selection), I wouldn't mind him playing in DC. Dude is a menace on the defensive end of the floor and can play both the 1 and 2. He's an absolute upgrade over Crawford and would be an asset to this team going forward.

[StillUnknown]

Exactly Destino. McGee is our second best player and probably our best defender by a large margin. There are many teams starting worse at the pivot than McGee. And you're right, he typically is an efficient offensive player because he has a tiny usage rate and shoots for high percentage. He doesn't take bad shots. He doesn't take many shots period.

I think people (Imperium in this case) forget how young McGee is and how long it takes for bigs to develop. Does anyone remember how raw McGee was coming in? It takes normal bigs four to six years to develop as a rule.

By his fifth or sixth year, I think McGee will realistically match where Tyson Chandler was in his sixth year. He's not an All Star, but you can contend with a starting center like that.

If anything, McGee is farther along than Chandler was at a similar point in each of their careers.

Here's each from their 23 year old season: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ndty01&y2=2006

I think it's fair to say that, at a similar point in each of their careers--their 24 year old seasons--Chandler was a better rebounder, but McGee was a more efficient and productive scorer and better shot blocker. Tyson Chandler also had two years more NBA experience at this point, and was playing with Chris Paul on a playoff team.

McGee will be fine. He's the least of our troubles.

McGee doesn't take bad shots?

McGee's contract situation puts him at the top of our concerns because we have to weigh his immense potential versus the likelihood of him ever reaching that potential. Then we have to decide whats the cutoff of what we're willing to pay to keep him. All it takes is one dumb gm (and in the NBA there are many) to offer him a big deal and then we would have a major decision. As I said before, I would like to keep him, but I wouldn't even give him DeAndre Jordan money at this point.

[Destino]

McGee doesn't take bad shots?

McGee's contract situation puts him at the top of our concerns because we have to weigh his immense potential versus the likelihood of him ever reaching that potential. Then we have to decide whats the cutoff of what we're willing to pay to keep him. All it takes is one dumb gm (and in the NBA there are many) to offer him a big deal and then we would have a major decision. As I said before, I would like to keep him, but I wouldn't even give him DeAndre Jordan money at this point.

More points, blocks, steals, and rebounds... In less minutes and on a far worse team. McGee will make between Deandre and M Gasol money.

[StillUnknown]

More points, blocks, steals, and rebounds... In less minutes and on a far worse team. McGee will make between Deandre and M Gasol money.

I agree somebody will give him that kind of money, I just don't think he's worth that much.

[Skin'Em84]

I agree somebody will give him that kind of money, I just don't think he's worth that much.

And as much as I want him, I don't want to pay that much...and hope we don't.

Ernie will probably sign and trade him for Etan Thomas or something...

[StillUnknown]

And as much as I want him, I don't want to pay that much...and hope we don't.

Ernie will probably sign and trade him for Etan Thomas or something...

Ted can add him to the "veteran presence" on the team.

[shuler74]

Mcgee's stats are inflated......he is a momentum killer, I hope the wizards do not sign him and part their ways...hopefully he can blossom with another team. He takes bad shots over and over again and has no basketball iq, as many points he does make he gives them right back by his poor defense and goaltending, plus he rarely blocks out, most of his rebounds come from his athletic ability. I would rather have a consistent center who plays tough physical defense and high iq. I am not a stats guy , I want players that understand the game and will pass the ballMcgee is in his 4 th year and has not learned anything in regards to the game of basketball.

We are the laughing stock of the nba

[MonkFan8]

Glad people are coming around on McGee.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Exactly Destino. McGee is our second best player and probably our best defender by a large margin. There are many teams starting worse at the pivot than McGee. And you're right, he typically is an efficient offensive player because he has a tiny usage rate and shoots for high percentage. He doesn't take bad shots. He doesn't take many shots period.

So by that logic, Tyson Chandler is an efficient offensive player right now because he has a tiny usage rate and shoots for high percentage. McGee might be a better #5 option than Chandler, but he's still a #5 option on any seriously contending team.

I think people (Imperium in this case) forget how young McGee is and how long it takes for bigs to develop. Does anyone remember how raw McGee was coming in? It takes normal bigs four to six years to develop as a rule.

Okay, take a look at this.

EDIT: The BF CGI script is busted so I can't show you the stats.

Statistically, Javale McGee's production is in line more with players like Kelvin Cato, Bryant Reeves, and Adonal Foyle than Tyson Chandler. Guys who produce like McGee in terms of offense and rebounding through their fourth year rarely get better in either area, and certainly do not become go to scorers, which is what McGee would need to become to be as valuable as Chandler.

By his fifth or sixth year, I think McGee will realistically match where Tyson Chandler was in his sixth year. He's not an All Star, but you can contend with a starting center like that.

Tyson Chandler was a DPOY-caliber center from his last year in Chicago. Are you sure about this?

I think it's fair to say that, at a similar point in each of their careers--their 24 year old seasons--Chandler was a better rebounder, but McGee was a more efficient and productive scorer and better shot blocker. Tyson Chandler also had two years more NBA experience at this point, and was playing with Chris Paul on a playoff team.

Rebounding is hardly close, Chandler at that point was also literally light-years better as a defender (DPOY-caliber player essentially).

McGee may be a better scorer, but the difference between them as scorers in no way compensates for the vast gulf between them in defense and rebounding.

And shotblocking is one of the most overrated aspects of big-man defense, so using that as a defense for McGee doesn't work either.

Expecting that McGee is going to magically blow up in year 5 or 6 (after giving him a DeAndre Jordan-esque contract) is pure wishful thinking.

[Destino]

Defensive, offensive, and total rebound rates
http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats....2&gp=0&mins=15
Chandler DRR: 23.1 ORR: 11.2 TRR: 17
McGee 23.4 11.9 17.5
Jordan 21.6 12.2 16.9
Howard 36 10.4 23.1

Yes clearly McGee is no where close to chandler as a rebounder.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

This Javale McGee debate really reminding me of the early Andray Blatche debate. I'm where I was on that one too. I have no problem letting Javale walk. He's an idiot, unfortunately there's no training regiment for idiot, and he'll remain an idiot. You can't win with players like him.

---------- Post added February-12th-2012 at 06:55 PM ----------

And I imagine this McGee debate (starting to form), is going to be uglier and more drawn out than the Blatche debate ever was. McGee makes everyone say WOW! from time to time. Blatche never did that.

[StillUnknown]

This Javale McGee debate really reminding me of the early Andray Blatche debate. I'm where I was on that one too. I have no problem letting Javale walk. He's an idiot, unfortunately there's no training regiment for idiot, and he'll remain an idiot. You can't win with players like him.

---------- Post added February-12th-2012 at 06:55 PM ----------

And I imagine this McGee debate (starting to form), is going to be uglier and more drawn out than the Blatche debate ever was. McGee makes everyone say WOW! from time to time. Blatche never did that.

This is why I try to divorce myself from his highlight reel plays and pay more attention to the small things that he has to get down if he wants to be successful. Blatche made it easy for everyone to want him out because he just didn't give a damn. I don't get that sense with McGee. I think he cares, but I also think he's absolutely clueless in terms of how he should be improving his game, particularly in defensive situations.

---------- Post added February-12th-2012 at 06:17 PM ----------

Wow, the Palace is empty. Sounds like they're playing in a gym.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

This is why I try to divorce myself from his highlight reel plays and pay more attention to the small things that he has to get down if he wants to be successful. Blatche made it easy for everyone to want him out because he just didn't give a damn. I don't get that sense with McGee. I think he cares, but I also think he's absolutely clueless in terms of how he should be improving his game, particularly in defensive situations.

I think it's a combination of immaturity and stupidity. But I think stupidity is the big one. He's like a QB that can't read defenses. Unfortunately, people can grow up but they don't really get smarter. I mean it should've been a warning sign from the get-go that guy comes from the ULTIMATE basketball family and he still doesn't understand the sport. If he didn't get it before, if he still hasn't gotten it, I'm not sure why anyone thinks he ever will. He's done for me. Like with Blatche, I don't think you can win with players like him. I pray to God that we don't sign him to a huge, long-term contract in the offseason.

---------- Post added February-12th-2012 at 07:28 PM ----------

One year ago:

To me there is one unforgiveable sin in sports: to quit. To give up, to go through the motions, to not give a ****. However you want to phrase it.

My biggest beef with Blatche has been just that. He is a quitter. He has no pride. Too often people look at the player but not the person. You cannot seperate the two. Great athleticism, nice skillset, and even decent numbers don't mean **** if you've got no heart.

Wall is a winner. Why? Because he goes out there night after night for the third worst team in the NBA and gives it his all. Ditto Booker, Seraphin, now Crawford and Hinrich before him. They are hungry, they have pride, they will do anything within their power to not to lose.

What I saw from McGee last night was an absolute disgrace. Worst even than Blatche. TV didn't do it justice. He quit. Flat out quit. It was embarrassing to watch. 20 years I've been watching NBA basketball and that was the most pathetic display of effort I have ever seen. When him and Flip got into I at first thought it Wall because Wall was saying **** to him as well as the walked off for the timeout. Wall is a winner. McGee is not.

You cannot win with people like Blatche and McGee. They don't have the heart to win. They don't have the heart to put in the necessary work to build on their potential. They don't have the heart to play tough against good teams. They don't have the heart to close out important, close games. They. Are. Losers.

So keep drooling over a vertical and a ****ing 8 rebounds a game for a **** team, but be prepared to tell me I was right all along when neither of these bums amounte to **** in the NBA.

[MonkFan8]

Wall to Vesely PNR is working well so far. Like seeing John's anticipation on those passes.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

That was when I officially gave up on McGee and he joined Andray Blatche. Now I've gone back and forth since, mainly at other peoples urgings. But no more. I'm over it.