The Official Washington Wizards Thread

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

And 22 is pretty much a current college senior. He's not old by NBA standards. He's got five years before you expect him to be in his prime. And the simple reality of the NBA is that bigs take 4-6 years to develop. I'm not making excuses for him. I'm acknowledging the realities of the situation.

If this was 1979, I would agree with you. But this is 2012 (I think...I just checked...this is 2012). Good college seniors are in their third year in the pros now. He needs to show something now. Otherwise, in five years, he is going to be in Europe or pulling a Darko and making a living off one-year contracts.

The way I judge players is by a simple question "What NBA skill do they have?" Even Darko - on his worse day - can protect the rim for a 10-minute stretch. Kwame Brown is a pretty good post defender. Both are horrific busts considering where they were drafted, but both at least have a skill.

What is Vesely's skill? What is the one thing you know that he can do in the NBA for the next ten years?

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

This may be a dumb question, but when did we even get him? I had no idea he was on the team until I watched the game and said, "... who is that white dude? Randolph... Shavlik Randolph?"

Picked him up to fill our summer league roster and he survived to the next round. I actually remember him coming out of high school. He was supposed to be the **** at Duke. One of Coach K's biggest recruits ever. Then he went on to completely bust there (had injury issues), entered the draft after his junior year and then went undrafted.

---------- Post added October-16th-2012 at 04:13 PM ----------

I think some of you are forgetting how epically bad the 2011 draft class was. I mean Kemba Walker went in the top 10. Kemba Walker, arguably the worst player in the league (yes, he's that bad).

---------- Post added October-16th-2012 at 04:16 PM ----------

Ooh and Enes Kanter. Enes Kanter who MANY of us on here wanted, went #3. He ****ing sucks big time.

[nuposse87]

Unless he pulls a seraphin and shows dramatic improvement throughout the course of the season we're prolly best off trading him for w/e we can get. His best asset right now is his pick and roll defense. We drafted him to be a 3, while he has the body of a 4, but the skillset of a 5. Makes for a very awkward positioning. He has defense down, you can't deny that, I think with so much depth in the front court he's afraid to make mistakes in fear of losing playing time. You need defined roles for young players so they know what to excel at IMO.

[StillUnknown]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/wizard...8#.UH66cMVZWSq

"It really comes down to if I make the shot, it's a good shot," Crawford said.

[Destino]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/wizard...8#.UH66cMVZWSq

He's right and wrong. Basketball is all about percentages and it's not enough to hit a bad shot every now and then. Derrick Rose attempts about a hundred 3-6 foot off balance one handed no arc floaters from odd angles while running directly at the opposing teams bigs per game. Those are considered bad shots by most reasonable people, because most people could never dream of making most of them. Rose however hits them regularly and so no one would dream of telling him to stop... though they might request he go easier on the knees when attempting them.

If Crawford could hit whatever horrible shots he enjoys taking (all of them) with regularity no one would care that he took them. They would become his thing, kind of like Kobe's horrible shooting form.

[No Excuses]

Jordan Crawford is the second coming of Juan Dixon. Inefficient chuckers like him will stick around on ****ty teams and will eventually fade out of the NBA.

---------- Post added October-17th-2012 at 10:33 AM ----------

PS: there is no benefit to trading Vesely. He has no trade value. I don't like giving up on players who are at least interested in getting better and give effort on the court. If he sucks, so be it.

He'll get his chance to play through the year. Okafor and Nene aren't staying healthy all season.

[MonkFan8]

Ooh and Enes Kanter. Enes Kanter who MANY of us on here wanted, went #3. He ****ing sucks big time.

Kanter is 10x the player Vesely is right now. Don't confuse being on a good team and not getting minutes to sucking. Look at what he's doing in limited preseason minutes compared to Vesely.

That said, it was a weak draft but there were numerous players that basically everyone had higher than Vesely on their boards that have turned out to be better players thus far.

[stevemcqueen1]

So what if he was the #6 pick???? You serious? HE WAS THE #6 PICK!!! If we drafted a guy to only play defense and finish around the rim, this team would have been better suited to take someone else at that spot or trade back. This is looking like a wasted pick. I'm sorry, but there is no way you can spin this to me to make it seem like Ves has a bright future. Some guys are busts. It's the nature of the game and draft. Not every pick is going to be a home run, and it's looking like Ves falls in that category. You don't draft a guy #6 overall to do things that don't show up in the stat sheet. He's a non-contributor whose game looks like it hasn't gotten a lick better since last season. This is not just me getting caught up in the moment. This goes back to summer league.

You really think Summer League and Preseason ball is a good indicator of his potential?

Who should we have drafted at 6 RA? You're hung up on that number, ignoring the fact the class sucked and there was no other decent alternative.

22 going on 23 is old by 2nd year player standards of guys picked in the top-10. If he can't crack the rotation or is only getting around 10mpg, what does that tell you? "Oh...let's wait 3-4 years and then we'll have something." What exactly has Vesely shown you so far that makes 1) the pick justified and 2) him a valuable asset of the team's future?

This is YOU spinning to try and make your point he's a bust. His birthday is in late April, when the season is over. You're acting like this is his 23 year old season to try and make the point he's not as far along as he should be.

What Ves has shown me is that he understands the game. He's got a good BBall IQ and in time, he will be a good defender. On offense he can pass and finish. Last year he proved he can stuff the whole box score. I'm not going to prioritize any summer league or preseason games over what he did in games during the regular season last year.

Ves is the type of intangibles player that won't get respect on a bad team. But I guarantee you if he had been picked by Chicago or San Antonio, where there would be no burden on him to produce offensively, he'd be considered a successful pick. Ves's growth and improvement will come simultaneously with the team's growth and improvement.

[Destino]

Kanter is 10x the player Vesely is right now. Don't confuse being on a good team and not getting minutes to sucking. Look at what he's doing in limited preseason minutes compared to Vesely.

I just took a look at the stats and I don't see them supporting that argument. Both of them failed to impress in terms of production.

[MonkFan8]

I just took a look at the stats and I don't see them supporting that argument. Both of them failed to impress in terms of production.

One guy is averaging 12 and 11 in 20 minutes, the other is 4 and 5 in 27 minutes.

Granted Kanter's efficiency could be better, but I don't see how you could disagree.

[nuposse87]

One guy is averaging 12 and 11 in 20 minutes, the other is 4 and 5 in 27 minutes.

Granted Kanter's efficiency could be better, but I don't see how you could disagree.

Where are you getting your stats from?

Its pointless to look at the season total for Jan, especially before the all star break. We got a glimpse of his niche after the knuckleheads were shipped out. Per 36, post all star break Jan's line was:
10.2 ppg 9.1 rb 1.6 assists, with about a 1 bpg.

I think its fairer to look at Kanters number throughout the season because he actually got less playing time after the all star break for w/e reason, but his per 36 numbers were:
12.5ppg-11.5rbg-0.3-0.9bpg

Not way better, but still a bit better. Not as efficient as Jan, but thats cause the only thing Jan could do was dunk or make a layup. He isn't the passer Jan is, to Jan's credit he makes smart basketball plays, those extra passes that won't show up in the stat sheet. That and Jan's team defense I think is better than Kanter's as well. While I don't think Jan will ever be worthy of a 6th overall selection...kind of knee jerk to discard him as a useless player. Its on him to become more aggressive offensively, but I wont write him off totally yet. It is also obvious playing with Wall really helped his production, the team has to be running to use him most effectively.

[MonkFan8]

Are you both missing (despite the fact that it was underlined - emphasis yours) the fact that I specified limited preseason minutes?

Besides, extrapolating per36 from 13 minute regular season averages as a 19 year old rookie really doesn't mean much.

[nuposse87]

Are you both missing (despite the fact that it was underlined - emphasis yours) the fact that I specified limited preseason minutes?

Besides, extrapolating per36 from 13 minute regular season averages as a 19 year old rookie really doesn't mean much.

Ah so preseason NBA play is a proper gauge for judging a players potential and expected projections. Gotcha. Duly noted. I know sports are a "what have you done for me lately" business but I think if your sample size is just what we've seen so far in this preseason you can make pro/con cases against any established/not established players.

[Destino]

One guy is averaging 12 and 11 in 20 minutes, the other is 4 and 5 in 27 minutes.

Granted Kanter's efficiency could be better, but I don't see how you could disagree.

You talking about summer league? I ignore those stats because they never seem to make sense.

[stevemcqueen1]

What is Vesely's skill? What is the one thing you know that he can do in the NBA for the next ten years?

Defense. He's long, athletic, and smart. He has the ability to become an elite defender. Great in the passing lanes. Good pick and roll defense. Good help defender with length to contest shots on the perimeter and in the paint.