The Official Washington Wizards Thread

[endzone_dave]

I'll admit Crawford can play well if his minutes are limited. When he gets a lot of minutes, he feels he can do whatever he wants and he acts stupid at times. When his minutes are more limited, he makes he sure he plays more team basketball so he can stay out there.

[SiCkSoULjA]

You're essentially saying I only think he's smart because he's white--implying that I think black players are dumber than white players.

You're also the one who dumped on Beal early and kept defending Blatche and McGee long after everyone else acknowledged they were turds. I don't think you know what good bball IQ looks like.

Ves has a good bball IQ. He sees the floor well and plays good team defense when he gets consistent run. You can either see it or you can't.

I didn't say you think all black players a dumb

Most White NBA players have good bball IQs too make up for lack of athletic ability most of the time. I am not trying too say white people can't jump some can "Vess" but the league is dominated by black players that run faster, jump higher and so on. What I am saying is Vess DON'T have this good basketball IQ he's a very limited ball player that belongs in the D league or back in Europe. He is not like AK47 good IQ and good athletic ability he is much much better than Vess. AK47 filled the stat sheet and was a lock down defender.

If Vess was black you would clearly see he is just another below average ball player, and right now he's one of the worst players in the league arguably the worst. Too be European he lacks the fundamentals and he can't shoot as of right now he is hurting the team.

---------- Post added January-13th-2013 at 01:27 PM ----------

I thought Beal sucked he was the worst shooter in the league, I then realize that he's only 19 on a sorry injury plagued team with the pressure too be the star of the team. I realize that I was being very unfair.

I didn't really like Blatche I just defended him, I hated the way he was made the scape goat. This team sucked because of Blatche according too everyone news flash we are worst without him. All the players are allowed too come in out of shape but Blatche huh? Blatche last year had a injury that put him on idle and he came in out of shape, Wall having the same circumstances came in out of shape nobody barley said anything. Blatche parties too much stays in the club, well guess what Wall and company is in magazines, music videos dancing his heart out NOBODY SAYS NOTHING. Before this team too turn the corner everyone has too go by the same rules.

McGee, well he's going too be a beast.

[stevemcqueen1]

I'll admit Crawford can play well if his minutes are limited. When he gets a lot of minutes, he feels he can do whatever he wants and he acts stupid at times. When his minutes are more limited, he makes he sure he plays more team basketball so he can stay out there.

Crawford is a gunner no doubt. But he isn't selfish, which is the key. He does pass the ball and get assists and can have that balance between facilitating and scoring. Crawford just isn't a starter. Not for a good team anyway. His best role is as a second line ball handler and scorer that gives you instant offense. He plays the exact same way whether he gets 35 minutes or 20 minutes, no matter the lineup he's in or the role he's asked to play. That type of mentality is rare and makes him ideally suited to come off the bench.

He's creative and you can get points from him in a variety of ways too.

I see him being a bigger, more pass oriented Jamal Crawford only with worse handles. Jamal Crawford has shown he can make an impact and be a key role player for good teams like when he was on Atlanta and on the Clippers, or he can be a chucker and play really inefficient ball when he's not playing the correct role like last year in Portland.

It is definitely about managing Jordan's minutes and putting him in the right lineups IMO. When we eventually get to a 9 or 10 man rotation, I think he becomes valuable as the primary scorer for the second line.

---------- Post added January-13th-2013 at 01:20 PM ----------

Wow last night's game was so refreshing, legit been waiting the whole season to see us play like that. The more I see of Beal/the better he plays, the more I realize the comparisons to Ray Allens were just wrong. He can attack the basket a lot better than I thought he would and his jumper is not as good as I was expecting. Very pleased with the way he's been playing the last few games. Just great to see John back on the court, not sure what to think about his jumper last night. He seemed confident in it and made the one but the other 2 he shot were sketchy.

The comparison to Ray Allen was because he's a similar size and build and he has a very graceful game predicated on his smooth handles and picture perfect jump shot. Beal is going to eventually be a great jump shooter because his process is great. So long as he doesn't mess with his mechanics. He is shooting for crappy percentages right now mostly because he hasn't found his range, hasn't figured out when and how to take consistently good shots yet, still figuring out how to get space against NBA defenses. And his first 20 games were playing on a historically bad team that was asking him to aggressively shoot to get into the habit of trying to score at the expense of efficiency.

If you watch vintage Ray Allen with the Sonics, you'll see how similar he just physically looks to Beal. The way they move around the court is so similar. Also Ray used to be very athletic and would throw down on people when he was young. You're probably thinking old Celtics Ray Allen where he was basically just a jump shooter and did not have the same speed or bounce.

There are differences between them definitely. Beal is stronger and a more aggressive player. Not as smooth as Ray. And Ray was also a better shooter and more efficient player when he came into the league. But he was also a more finished product because he played three years at UConn and came in at 21 instead of 19. He just knew more. Knew the game better, knew how to take better shots.

Beal is super smart though, I think he's going to get it figured out really fast. I think you'll see him make great strides with his shooting efficiency by the end of this year. He already looks like he's figuring out how to get room on his shot against quality defenders like Thabo Sefalosha. And it's going to help him a lot getting Wall back because Wall will space the floor and get him the ball while he's open. Don't write off that jumper yet. Conventional wisdom points to it getting a lot more consistent.

And ^^^, yes Jan is just pathetic out there. It's obvious the only thing he can do is catch alley oops, but wait he didn't convert either of them last night. Now that Booker is back I'm hoping we don't see Vesely anymore. Still not sure why he's getting PT over Chris Singleton.

Jan is struggling hard, but Jan has regressed under this coaching staff and has suffered from crap PG play this year. He's got talent, we just haven't been able to develop it or do anything with it this year.

Jan missed those oops last night because they were bad passes from Wall BTW. Wall was rusty. The plays were nice backdoor cuts that'll be effective once Wall gets back into the flow of things.

I think a lot of the Jan sucks talk is generalizations because people don't really care to see what his full situation is. He's become the chic player to bash, there is always someone every year. The fan base also gives up on young players instantaneously. People were writing Beal off after his first three games.

What has Singleton done to prove he deserves to play? I don't understand why people want him out there over Ves. Is it a devil you don't know situation? It's a terrible sign he can't get into games as wide open as the lineups have been. Jan was in the doghouse and he actually got out of it probably because Singleton was struggling even worse. If he's not playing right now he must be awful in practice.

[shuler74]

Crawford is a gunner no doubt. But he isn't selfish, which is the key. He does pass the ball and get assists and can have that balance between facilitating and scoring. Crawford just isn't a starter. Not for a good team anyway. His best role is as a second line ball handler and scorer that gives you instant offense. He plays the exact same way whether he gets 35 minutes or 20 minutes, no matter the lineup he's in or the role he's asked to play. That type of mentality is rare and makes him ideally suited to come off the bench.

He's creative and you can get points from him in a variety of ways too.

I see him being a bigger, more pass oriented Jamal Crawford only with worse handles. Jamal Crawford has shown he can make an impact and be a key role player for good teams like when he was on Atlanta and on the Clippers, or he can be a chucker and play really inefficient ball when he's not playing the correct role like last year in Portland.

It is definitely about managing Jordan's minutes and putting him in the right lineups IMO. When we eventually get to a 9 or 10 man rotation, I think he becomes valuable as the primary scorer for the second line.

---------- Post added January-13th-2013 at 01:20 PM ----------



The comparison to Ray Allen was because he's a similar size and build and he has a very graceful game predicated on his smooth handles and picture perfect jump shot. Beal is going to eventually be a great jump shooter because his process is great. So long as he doesn't mess with his mechanics. He is shooting for crappy percentages right now mostly because he hasn't found his range, hasn't figured out when and how to take consistently good shots yet, still figuring out how to get space against NBA defenses. And his first 20 games were playing on a historically bad team that was asking him to aggressively shoot to get into the habit of trying to score at the expense of efficiency.

If you watch vintage Ray Allen with the Sonics, you'll see how similar he just physically looks to Beal. The way they move around the court is so similar. Also Ray used to be very athletic and would throw down on people when he was young. You're probably thinking old Celtics Ray Allen where he was basically just a jump shooter and did not have the same speed or bounce.

There are differences between them definitely. Beal is stronger and a more aggressive player. Not as smooth as Ray. And Ray was also a better shooter and more efficient player when he came into the league. But he was also a more finished product because he played three years at UConn and came in at 21 instead of 19. He just knew more. Knew the game better, knew how to take better shots.

Beal is super smart though, I think he's going to get it figured out really fast. I think you'll see him make great strides with his shooting efficiency by the end of this year. He already looks like he's figuring out how to get room on his shot against quality defenders like Thabo Sefalosha. And it's going to help him a lot getting Wall back because Wall will space the floor and get him the ball while he's open. Don't write off that jumper yet. Conventional wisdom points to it getting a lot more consistent.



Jan is struggling hard, but Jan has regressed under this coaching staff and has suffered from crap PG play this year. He's got talent, we just haven't been able to develop it or do anything with it this year.

Jan missed those oops last night because they were bad passes from Wall BTW. Wall was rusty. The plays were nice backdoor cuts that'll be effective once Wall gets back into the flow of things.

I think a lot of the Jan sucks talk is generalizations because people don't really care to see what his full situation is. He's become the chic player to bash, there is always someone every year. The fan base also gives up on young players instantaneously. People were writing Beal off after his first three games.

What has Singleton done to prove he deserves to play? I don't understand why people want him out there over Ves. Is it a devil you don't know situation? It's a terrible sign he can't get into games as wide open as the lineups have been. Jan was in the doghouse and he actually got out of it probably because Singleton was struggling even worse. If he's not playing right now he must be awful in practice.

Growing up I saw Ray Allen dunking on everyone...the younger generation only sees him as a jumpshooter

[stevemcqueen1]

I didn't say you think all black players a dumb

Most White NBA players have good bball IQs too make up for lack of athletic ability most of the time. I am not trying too say white people can't jump some can "Vess" but the league is dominated by black players that run faster, jump higher and so on. What I am saying is Vess DON'T have this good basketball IQ he's a very limited ball player that belongs in the D league or back in Europe. He is not like AK47 good IQ and good athletic ability he is much much better than Vess. AK47 filled the stat sheet and was a lock down defender.

If Vess was black you would clearly see he is just another below average ball player, and right now he's one of the worst players in the league arguably the worst. Too be European he lacks the fundamentals and he can't shoot as of right now he is hurting the team.

I think you're being too general. Yes the league is absolutely dominated by black players and the common perception is they seem more athletic. But my point is that perception is faulty on a case by case basis because it's based on only a handful of the top white and black players IMO. You're going to think the white players are less athletic when you're only thinking about goofy, unathletic shooters like Dirk or slow footed bangers like Omer Asik and Kevin Love. That's just a small number of the white players though. Plus there are just way fewer white players in general, so outliers throws their perception off even more. But for every Omer Asik you've also got a Brendan Haywood and for Kevin Love you've got Al Jefferson. There being more black players in the league means you don't have only Brendan Haywood and Al Jefferson come to mind when you think "black NBA player" so you get a more complete picture from that demo.

I think it's also fueled by the stereotypical skill set Euros are supposed to develop before they get here. The stereotype is they are slow, grounded shooters or rebounders and hard foul types. It's been true in the past but with more Euros coming into the league, you are seeing a lot more players who don't fit that mold at all like Evan Fournier and Rubio and Vesely.

If Ves were black I would still feel the same way about him. That's the kind of speculation I have an issue with. I have been clear and consistent with what I think Ves's weaknesses are. He isn't a good rebounder. He can't defend most SFs one on one and he's not strong enough to consistently hold deep position against true bigs. Ves has problems offensively and he's struggled to make any sort of impact there this year, and it's kept him off the floor. He has no confidence as a shooter and he can't handle the ball at all and thus he must have good PG play to score. We've had a rotating collection of castoffs playing PG this year, it's no surprise he's struggled. He hurts the team when our PG play is awful. That's not that unusual a situation. When he does get great PG play, he can be effective. He can score off those cuts and transition opportunities and he can get by defenders with his first step. And if we were smart, we would use his passing ability more, just like Kentucky has done with Nerlens or Chicago does with Noah. Noah can't shoot or dribble at all either but he can pass and facilitate the offense from the top of the key. Ves is big like Noah and can see the whole floor well and he's a good passer that can get the ball anywhere in the half court. He should be running sets where he's feeding teammates from the top of the key like Noah does.

And Ves did stuff the box score last year when he got more consistent run. He needs a set role and set minutes to be able to produce, same as any other player. He will get some rebounds, he will get some assists, he will pick off passes and get steals and he will block shots. He did it last year.

And I think it's totally inconsistent of you to trash Ves and love Nerlens at the same time. They've got most of the same core strengths and weaknesses. Nerlens is more athletic and has a better frame and he's a better rebounder. He's a rich man's version of Ves and that's why he'll get picked in the top 3 in a decent class and Ves was the 6th pick in a terrible class. But they really are cut from the same cloth. And actually Ves was a better shooter and finisher than Nerlens is at ~19 and he has better touch than Nerlens. Nerlens has awful touch on the ball and has no shooting range whatsoever. He can't consistently make shots a foot from the rim. It has to be dunks with him. Ves could hit threes for his Euro team before we drafted him. He just has shown no confidence in his shot for us.

I thought Beal sucked he was the worst shooter in the league, I then realize that he's only 19 on a sorry injury plagued team with the pressure too be the star of the team. I realize that I was being very unfair.

My point is that even when Beal was struggling, you could still see he had good raw tools and he had a great bball IQ. You were ignoring that bball IQ if you were panning him because that is what suggested he was going to get better. I think it's a similar situation with Ves. He has the IQ to contribute, he just needs to be developed and used properly.

I didn't really like Blatche I just defended him, I hated the way he was made the scape goat. This team sucked because of Blatche according too everyone news flash we are worst without him. All the players are allowed too come in out of shape but Blatche huh? Blatche last year had a injury that put him on idle and he came in out of shape, Wall having the same circumstances came in out of shape nobody barley said anything. Blatche parties too much stays in the club, well guess what Wall and company is in magazines, music videos dancing his heart out NOBODY SAYS NOTHING. Before this team too turn the corner everyone has too go by the same rules.

McGee, well he's going too be a beast.

If you don't see the difference between Wall and Blatche's situations, then I don't know what to tell you. Wall is on a completely different level as a professional. First off, Wall never got himself shot or arrested for trolling prostitutes, never threw lap dance tuesday in Miami immediately after an awful season where he sucked and got sent home from the team for unprofessionalism. Wall busts his ass and is a genuine leader. He has always played his heart out. Blatche was worthless. Blatche was so out of shape the team actually told him to stay away. He's a turd that was a major detriment to the team the past two years.

JaVale's never going to be a beast either. He'll have the occasional dominant game and he'll be better overall than he was here because he's actually on a good team now that can keep him coming off the bench. But he's still a fixture on Shaqtin' A Fool and will never be the sum of his parts. He's a dumb player with a terrible basketball IQ and he's childish and unprofessional and those things will always hold him back. He's got a 7'7 wingspan and is only an average rebounder for his position and he is a genuine defensive liability at times. That just shouldn't be the case. He should be a dominant defender and rebounder but he's just never going to be that player.

[StillUnknown]

My biggest issue with Jan is that I don't see much from him that differs from what I thought of him as a draft pick. When it seemed like he was guaranteed to be our pick, the only positives most scouts had was that he could run and jump. Into his 2nd season, his best qualities are still run and jump. You can literally find players with his qualities on scrap heaps. They are there because you have to be able to do more than run and jump in this league. The only thing that surprises me about his game is that he is a pretty good touch passer. Part of me believes he has honed in on that skill because he is deathly afraid of any offensive situation that does not result in him dunking the ball.

He has some upside in the sense that you hope a 7ft athlete like him would pick up other areas of the game, but it doesn't necessarily work like that. Bad players who get drafted by teams with bad development history don't realize their potential.

[Hersh]

My biggest issue with Jan is that I don't see much from him that differs from what I thought of him as a draft pick. When it seemed like he was guaranteed to be our pick, the only positives most scouts had was that he could run and jump. Into his 2nd season, his best qualities are still run and jump. You can literally find players with his qualities on scrap heaps. They are there because you have to be able to do more than run and jump in this league. The only thing that surprises me about his game is that he is a pretty good touch passer. Part of me believes he has honed in on that skill because he is deathly afraid of any offensive situation that does not result in him dunking the ball.

He has some upside in the sense that you hope a 7ft athlete like him would pick up other areas of the game, but it doesn't necessarily work like that. Bad players who get drafted by teams with bad development history don't realize their potential.

Vesley will never be any good and won't ever have meaningful minutes on a good team. He really doesn't do enough to warrant minutes on any decent team. Deniers may hope otherwise, but the writing is on the wall.

[stevemcqueen1]

Vesley will never be any good and won't ever have meaningful minutes on a good team. He really doesn't do enough to warrant minutes on any decent team. Deniers may hope otherwise, but the writing is on the wall.

Maybe.

Maybe he'll develop, maybe he won't.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

In John, you can see it with his eyes. He'll tell you what to do with his eyes. I can't really explain it, but it's a feeling, it's a rhythm. You know when he's in attack mode, because you can see it. You know when he's looking for guys to cut or slash, because you can see it. It's timing and rhythm. He's more looking to get guys shots. With Ricky, it's more like he's going to react to you. He's saying, 'What are you going to do.' With John, you watch his eyes, you can tell."


Martell Webster explains the difference between John Wall and Ricky Rubio.

[SiCkSoULjA]

Maybe.

Maybe he'll develop, maybe he won't.

I respect your detailed write up but I guess we are going have too agree too disagree. Your comparing Ves and Noel offensive skill set and completely leaving out that Noel is a great defender and rebounder. Noel also finishes around the rim like no other with put backs and dunks, Vess is too small too do that. Ves is what he is at this point IMO and Noel is still developing.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I respect your detailed write up but I guess we are going have too agree too disagree. Your comparing Ves and Noel offensive skill set and completely leaving out that Noel is a great defender and rebounder. Noel also finishes around the rim like no other with put backs and dunks, Vess is too small too do that. Ves is what he is at this point IMO and Noel is still developing.

I'm not a big fan of Noel (I like Len better) but I agree with you as far as comparing him to Ves.

There's really no comparison.

[Skin'emAlive]

First off, What is Ves? Is he a Center? He is too small for that then. Is he a PF? He is manhandled there and cant rebound. It would be a positive if atleast he could tip the balls out ala Ilyasova. But he cant. Is he a SF? He cant shoot. Im not even going to call him a tweener, because that implies that he is above average in a statistic that matters. I dont dislike him because he is the one guy i need to pin my frustration on this year. That is and always will be Ernie. I dont like him because he is wasted space on the court who is deathly afraid of shooting, and cant make up for that in any way. I fail to see even medium basketball intelligence. Lets just take 2 fouls away assuming they were bad calls. That means he still have 3 fouls in 5 minutes of play while contributing 0 points. That is still ridiculously bad.

And lets not compare him to Mcgee. Mcgee is great. He has continued to improve every single year he has been in the league. Hes got the drive and the motivation to become the best. Hes got skills other players dream of. He stays out of trouble, and has a good role model ( mother) to help guide him. His only negative is that he looks goofy being a 7 footer who runs like a gazelle, jumps out the gym, and makes funny faces. I hated the way we treated him, hated the way he was scapegoated, and hated that we traded him for an injured aging injured veteran. ( Nene is good, but that is besides the point). And worst of all, if Ves goal was to just catch alleyoops, then Javale was have easily fit here if the bar is set that low.

[No_Pressure]

I don't want to be too general, but many of the great black sports players I've known personally or known of came from really rough home lives or areas. They're from places where it's difficult to succeed, and people don't exactly have the limitless options we think we have in America. If you're a great athlete, then congratulations, you've got a ticket to a free education or at the very least millions of dollars. I do not have statistics on this but I would wager that there are far more young black men in this situation in American than white men, therefore you have a higher rate of sports participation from young black men in many areas, it's highly competitive, and you end up with some amazing athletes making it to the top.

The ratio of athletes of another race, not just white, compared to blacks in basketball especially is heavily in favor of black athletes. I feel part of this is the fact that many potentially great white athletes don't pursue their ability, or don't pursue it to the degree that they would if they were desperate to succeed and leave a horrible home life/area/dim future behind. Many, but not all, non-black athletes likely come from middle class up higher economic backgrounds, and have more options, more support from their families and communities, and are not focused on a professional athletic career, or needing athletics to pay for a higher education, therefore you have sports which are dominated by black people. Football is popular in America, and all you need to become good is your body and a football- just ask Barry Sanders, who didn't play tackle football until high school if I recall correctly. Basketball, all you need is a court (found in many parks, major cities, and YMCA's) and a ball. They're cost effective to pick up, you don't really need many lessons. Sports which see a lower black to other athlete ratios would include baseball (which isn't played in pick up games so much, and typically requires bats, uniforms, gloves, coaching, and a league, increasing costs) and hockey (the most expensive of these four, requires skates, a stick, pads, a frozen and level surface, etc. sure, you can play street hockey and even do it on foot, but that would never prepare you for real hockey). Hockey is typically not played in pick-up games, at least not ice hockey- which is a different type of skating entirely, and is more expensive than many other sports to get into, which could account for a large white population given socioeconomic factors.

Look at the NBA players who have come from Europe. Many of them are good athletes, good shooters, guys who can jump and dunk quite well, who are fundamentally sound, and who are not necessarily smarter or less smart than any other players of any other race. In a nation such as Spain, Greece, or Italy where the people in desperate situations looking for a way out are white, you get good white athletes who have shown that they are capable of coming to the NBA and not just compete with our players, but become standouts in their own right. Nowitzki can play underneath as a forward and he can shoot from medium and longer ranges with the best of them. He's a great athlete and a talented player. Ginobli is Argentinian, though he's of Italian descent as much of that nation is. I don't need to tell anyone how good Manu has been. Sure, he doesn't average 20 ppg, but he's always been pretty good on assists and rebounds and is certainly a good athlete. Gasol, from Spain, has not been the same player this season that he was in the past, but in the past he was a guy who could average a double double. He's certainly quite the athlete.

I think the idea that black players don't play the "smart" positions like a good passing/assisting PG is ridiculous. Look at a guy like Tony Parker (Yes, I know he's not an American) he wasn't raised in the hyper athletic driven culture, and he's playing a position which emphasizes "smart" playing. Black people aren't incapable of being the distributors, they're just as smart as anybody else is potentially, it just depends on the environment in which that player was raised, and what abilities and traits were emphasized within their community. Look at Russell Westbrook from OKC. He's an outstanding PG, may be the best in the NBA. He averages 5 rebounds, 8.5 assists, 20+ points. He's a great passer, a good rebounder, an extremely smart player, and a talented shooter. He's black. Derrick Rose is up there with him as one of the best PG's in the league. White players can be athletic, black players can fill the smart ball handler/offense setter role. Sure, in general the different cultures probably emphasize different things for different reasons. There are more black players, but that doesn't mean black people are inherently good as basketball compared to any other race on the planet just like all white players aren't inherently better at positions that require "intelligence" than any other race on the planet. It comes down to the individual, their upbringing, and their motivations.

[Fight4RGIII]

[Hersh]

Wizards make push for Rudy Gay

The Wizards have had conversations with the Memphis Grizzlies in recent days to discuss what it would take to acquire Baltimore native Rudy Gay, two sources with knowledge of the discussions confirmed.

One source familiar with the Wizards’ plans added that they are “pushing for” the services of a borderline all-star talent that leads the Grizzlies in scoring at 17.8 points per game.

Gay was once considered the cornerstone of the small-market franchise but the athletic, 6-foot-8 swingman could become expendable as a new management team in Memphis weighs moving an overvalued asset to create future cost-savings or keeping the team with the league’s fourth-best record intact.

CSN Bay Area’s Ric Bucher recently reported that the Wizards made a “good” offer to the Grizzlies, without mentioning the details. But the Wizards have positioned themselves to take advantage of the new luxury tax penalties by raiding teams looking to deal quality players for expiring contracts, draft picks and/or young prospects.

More at link


I think this would be a huge mistake. Bye, bye cap room forever.