The Official Washington Wizards Thread

[Fight4RGIII]

Are there going to be any cheap, vet stretch 4s that we can get via trade/FA for next year's roster? I think one that knows his role could be really valuable for us if we expect to make the playoffs.

---------- Post added February-18th-2013 at 01:30 PM ----------

Also, Jan put this up and with the caption, "Working out to be an All-Star!"

[Gator Bait]

Josh Smith is a power forward. He's been playing almost exclusively at PF for years in ATL. Guys don't go from big positions to smaller ones the later they get in their career. They go the opposite direction. Smith is a (bad) face up power forward with big offensive limitations.

this is incorrect. He hasn't played almost exclusively at PF. He typically starts at PF, but they move him to 3 quite often. Often enough that ESPN has him listed as a SF and not a PF. How does a player with so many offensive limitation (as you say) average over 17 ppg?

He can't shoot well enough to play the three for us, nor is he especially creative off the dribble. He's got an ORating of 96 this year, which is awful. So is his TS %. He's actually got negative offensive win shares this season. He's been worse than a replacement level player on offense this year. Pretty much the only positive for him has been his passing.

you and your stats...you cling to them.

He's looking for 18+ million a year but he's probably only worth 13 or 14 million.

Here is the thing about players and contracts....they actually have to find teams willing to pay them the money they are seeking. JaVale McGee's agent tried to get him the max without success. Just because a player wants the max; doesn't mean they will receive it. The max Josh could receive is 17.4 million (max contract first year) so he is unable to make the 18+ you claim he is looking for.

He's also a bit of a knucklehead

you think Josh is a knucklehead and use this as one of the reasons you wouldn't want the Wizards to sign him, yet you are a huge fan of Cousins and want the Wizards to trade for him? That makes no sense at all....Cousins is one of the biggest knuckleheads in the entire NBA.

---------- Post added February-18th-2013 at 01:46 PM ----------

It is a misconception that the Wizards needs "shooters." It would help to have a few guys who excel at shooting the ball, but what we need are well rounded players who are well rounded and are above average in all aspects of the game and can score points efficiently.

[stevemcqueen1]

this is incorrect. He hasn't played almost exclusively at PF. He typically starts at PF, but they move him to 3 quite often. Often enough that ESPN has him listed as a SF and not a PF. How does a player with so many offensive limitation (as you say) average over 17 ppg?

He's a PF. He's been a PF for the past six years. He averages 17 PPG with horrible efficiency. High usage rate plus crap efficiency is how he gets to 17 PPG. He's 18th in the league in usage rate.

He can't shoot and he doesn't have a back to basket game. He's shooting just .311 on 2 point jumpers and just .354 on 3 pointers. That's awful. And even worse, he's shooting only .389 on hook shots. He's attempted the second most hook shots in the entire league with 126 of them so far. By contrast Kevin Seraphin is third in the league in hook shot attempts and he's .716 on them.

He's a ****ing awful offensive player. One of the worst in the league this season. He legitimately hurts his team on that side of the floor and they'd be better off starting a replacement level player there. He's not a good enough shooter to play SF nor is he a slasher who can get to the rim and the FT line. He's a bad face up power forward where all of his value comes from his defense.

you and your stats...you cling to them.

You can act as disdainful of them as you please, but really you're just ignoring them when they don't suit you. Regardless, pretty much any offensive stat out there points to how bad he's been on offense this year. His assists have been solid for a PF but they're balanced out by his high turnover rate for the position. The only thing he's been doing well is finishing mostly assisteed dunks and layups around the basket and in transition.

Here is the thing about players and contracts....they actually have to find teams willing to pay them the money they are seeking. JaVale McGee's agent tried to get him the max without success. Just because a player wants the max; doesn't mean they will receive it. The max Josh could receive is 17.4 million (max contract first year) so he is unable to make the 18+ you claim he is looking for.

Josh Smith himself is the one who said he's looking for a max contract. ~17.4 million is for the first year, then it has raises built into it each year so the value of the contract goes over 18 million annually.

Will he get the deal? Probably not. God knows he doesn't deserve it. But you never know. And how do you get him to sign a deal before FA starts and he goes on the open market just to test the water for less than what he expects to get? He'd say **** off and try his luck in FA because even if most teams with cap space wants him on a max deal, there might be one or two out there that would.

So you'd trade for him and stick to your guns to get try and get him at a fair cost and you're faced with the very real chance he walks to a new team in the summer for nothing.

you think Josh is a knucklehead and use this as one of the reasons you wouldn't want the Wizards to sign him, yet you are a huge fan of Cousins and want the Wizards to trade for him? That makes no sense at all....Cousins is one of the biggest knuckleheads in the entire NBA.

Cousins is a knucklehead. The difference between him and Josh Smith is that he is actually pretty good and he has the potential to be one of the top 3 big men in the game. He's been better than Josh Smith this season and he's still got a mountain of untapped potential. Josh Smith is in his 9th season and getting worse.

It is a misconception that the Wizards needs "shooters." It would help to have a few guys who excel at shooting the ball, but what we need are well rounded players who are well rounded and are above average in all aspects of the game and can score points efficiently.

That rules out Josh Smith too. He's not well rounded and he can't score efficiently.

The offense needs shooters to function. We need a SF that can shoot and even better would be getting a PF that could shoot too.

---------- Post added February-18th-2013 at 05:09 PM ----------

Counterintuitive, but it's actually good that Wall has developed somewhat slowly.

There is an obscure new rule in the CBA called the Derrick Rose rule where a player with less than 6 years experience is not eligible to make more than 9 million dollars annually OR 25% of the salary cap (a little over 14 million) annually. The caveats are that the player is eligible to make the normal > 10 years experience vet max of 30% of the salary cap (a little over 17 million) only if he gets named to two All Star games as a starter or two All NBA teams or wins a league MVP.

John isn't going to get selected to an All NBA team this year meaning he won't be able to hit the prerequisites before he negotiates unless he wins an MVP next year. That ain't happening unless we become a first or second seed, in which case, who cares?

So John's extension can be no more than ~14 million annually, which he probably won't get.

It'll also benefit us if Beal stays under the radar and doesn't get named the starter to two All Star teams before his rookie deal is up.

And of course, there is the obvious benefit of the team being bad enough for one stretch to get a string of high draft picks to lay the foundation.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I am completely done with the Wizards for various reasons (I've actually reinvigorated my love for the NBA as a result) but I still lurk here because you guys are so knowledgeable.

Gator...please read this article on Josh Smith.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...hooters-so-far

Here's a sample
"So far this season, Smith has made more than 62 percent of his shots close to the basket, which is a value significantly higher than the NBA average. It’s also higher than Tim Duncan’s 60 percent and Dwight Howard’s 61 percent. This is especially impressive considering this is the most ferociously defended real estate on the floor, where monstrous athletes like Larry Sanders (also known as LARRY SANDERS!) and Howard try really hard to prevent shots from going in. Still, in terms of both volume and efficiency, Smith unquestionably performs at an elite level down there. He’s a great interior scorer.

Unfortunately for Hawks fans — and for fans of general alignment of talents and actions — Smith has a destructive jump shooting habit. While it would be unfair to label him the worst jump shooter in the NBA, it is probably fair to claim that he is the worst active jump shooter in the league. Most guys — Tyson Chandler, for example — who can’t shoot 17-footers don’t make a habit of trying anyway. Smith does.

As a general rule, Smith shoots almost exactly half of his shots within 7.5 feet of the rim, and the other half outside of that threshold. As of January 22, Smith was 80-for-297 (27 percent) outside of 7.5 feet, and 178-for-287 (62 percent) inside that distance. He spends too much time doing stuff he’s not good at. The notion that Smith has more midrange attempts than Al Horford and Lou Williams is simply ridiculous."

[nuposse87]

[QUOTE=Gator Bait;9429899][COLOR="Gold"]

your reading comprehension sucks. The only comparison I made between LeBron and Josh was their size...and that was spot on.

In this case size doesn't matter, especially when you're trying to equate Josh Smith into being a "good SF". He's very unskilled from the perimeter. Career wise, he isn't a guy you want anywhere but the paint, nor is he fast enough to blow by truly elite SFs (not anymore at least). You can say my reading comprehension sucks or w/e, but the fact is your argument wreaks of incompetence. Stop making bull**** comparisons.

I find it hard to believe you've watched 90% of all wizards games since Jordan...but that's another argument. I've I stated before...I go to a lot of games (both college and pros) you see a lot more when you are at the game. Not to mention my girlfriend could watch a million basketball games, but that doesn't mean she would know what the **** she is talking about when it comes to the sport. You can watch all you want, but that doesn't make you a subject matter expert.

I don't give a **** whether or not you believe don't try to insinuate that I'm liar and then brush it off as if its point of actual discussion. I'd venture to say almost everyone on this board who lives in the DMV area has attempted or gone to a game, as I have, and you don't see anything different than you do on TV. I hardly doubt anyone goes to a game and watches one player off the ball the whole ****ing game. Don't bring your GF into this, I don't want to bash anyone who is undeserving.

Quit talking out of your ass and actually back up some of your assertions regarding players other than simply saying "player X is good because of some subjectively arbitrary quality Y that I observed." Gimme a ****ing break.

Smith isn't a tweener....he is a legit 3 that can also play 4. he is a much better fit at 3 because of his quickness, athleticism, and size. I never called Rudy Gay efficient...I said he was a good player, and he is. 66% ft. shooter is bad, but as I said before (you must have missed it) is that ft shooting can be improved with coaching.

Ummm he is absolutely a tweener forward. 6'9 with a standing reach similar to B. Griffin's if I'm not mistaken. He's better as stretch 4 who can't shoot (which is odd in itself). His athleticism isn't good enough to cover up the lack of shooting skill he has from outside (although career year this year for him, but also contract year, not too surprised). Not to mention he's going to be 28 in '13-14 season (which I imagine would be the first season we'd see dividends from acquiring this terrible 6'9 walking mediocre treadmill of a player). He's 27, his FT shooting isn't going to get much better. Remember, he's shooting like close to 50% this season. If he gets up to 60% again it isn't like we've rid ourselves of his liability. I'm sure he has coaches working with him on this, so it isn't something you can bank on.

I don't love to have a guy who can't shoot free throws..but if they are dominate at other things like Defense, rebounding, passing, and also a pretty good scorer....I can get over that.

He doesn't dominate the boards, he's got a 1.3:1 Assist to TO ratio, while at least not below 1, isn't exactly dominate. 17.5 points a game on bad TS on high usage isn't a good scorer. He's a scorer, but more like corey magette, who, I'm sure...nobody wants.

again...I never called Gay an efficient player, but he is elite at his position.

you aren't getting a guy like josh Smith for 8 million a year....players like him make at least 12 million a year.

elite? Well, LBJ, Durant, Melo are all clearly in the top 3. Paul George would be next, as he's played tremendous ball in the last 35 games, not to mention his all NBA caliber defense. I'd say Pierce and Batum come next, Pierce is clearly on a downward trejectory though, but we're just talkin this season. Batum plays excellent D and does a lot considering POR has no bench, not to mention he's been fighting through injuries this season. The only thing "elite" about Rudy Gay is that he's hyper athletic. The problem is his shot selection and efficiency, which is the same regarding Smith.

not if you already have a few pieces together like we do. The Wizards with Josh Smith are contenders in the NBA next year.

We have pieces, but putting smith on this team is like trying to fit a Square into space where a circle goes. He'd better suited on CLE with Kyrie being a threat from 3 point land. Smith isn't going to get much better as a player, so thinking his game is going to expand seems like foolish thinking. Most guys are what they are by his age.

Oh and regarding Cousins, he is a headcase, like Smith, but at least Cousins has monstrous upside. You can't say that about Smith, he's in his physical prime, but that doesn't mean his game is about to morph.

[stevemcqueen1]

Here's a sample
"So far this season, Smith has made more than 62 percent of his shots close to the basket, which is a value significantly higher than the NBA average. It’s also higher than Tim Duncan’s 60 percent and Dwight Howard’s 61 percent. This is especially impressive considering this is the most ferociously defended real estate on the floor, where monstrous athletes like Larry Sanders (also known as LARRY SANDERS!) and Howard try really hard to prevent shots from going in. Still, in terms of both volume and efficiency, Smith unquestionably performs at an elite level down there. He’s a great interior scorer.

I'm not sure that's actually correct. How are they defining shots at the rim? Because I'm getting different numbers. Tim Duncan at like 82% on shots withing a foot of the rim and Smith is like 79%. There are a ton of people in that percentile too, I wouldn't call converting at that percentage elite. I'm guessing they mean further out from the basket.

[Destino]

I'm not sure that's actually correct. How are they defining shots at the rim? Because I'm getting different numbers. Tim Duncan at like 82% on shots withing a foot of the rim and Smith is like 79%. There are a ton of people in that percentile too, I wouldn't call converting at that percentage elite. I'm guessing they mean further out from the basket.

Hoopdata has Duncan at 72% and Smith at 77.9% at the rim.

[stevemcqueen1]

Hoopdata has Duncan at 72% and Smith at 77.9% at the rim.

Do they define shot at the rim? Does it have to be a certain type of shot and what is the distance that counts? Not that it matters because clearly both Josh Smith and Tim Duncan are excellent and it's splitting hairs to differentiate them here. I'm just curious.

Saw this on RealGM:

Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard

In talks with ATL for Josh Smith, Wizards have said all but 3 players available: J Wall, B Beal & Nene

---------- Post added February-19th-2013 at 07:25 AM ----------

I wish they'd stipulate that the draft pick is unavailable too. IMO that thing needs to be off the table because of the risk Smith would leave in FA. You need that thing to rebuild in case he leaves and/or to find a 3 or a 5 long term.

I'm not necessarily against Smith if he extends at a reasonable price.

My position is that I think he will be very difficult to build around and I'm skeptical the FO is capable of doing it.

I think Smith has value because he's an elite defender. And it's become tiresome for fans to hear at this point, but yes, he does give someone to run the floor with John and finish in transition. That is important.

He's a true PF and IF you can get him to stop hoisting bad shots and shoot within the flow of the offense, he can space the floor. He does have a 3 ball even though he's been terrible shooting it for a perimeter player. Good enough to stretch the floor from the 4 though.

I wish he could make FTs though. His dribble penetration is basically no threat because he can't shoot FTs.

But mainly I think he's needed for the defense. Put him at the 4 and Nene at the 5 and you've got a good front court. Nene is bigger and more powerful and just as efficient as Horford.

The problem remains two-fold though: We need a 3. And we need a solution for the Center position after Nene. Nene will not be around for the time when Wall & Beal hit their primes in four or five years.

If you trade for Smith with the deal built around Okafor, or Ariza and a bunch of young guys, extend him at a good deal, and use the draft pick on Shabazz or Porter to be the starting 3, that's a top three seed in the East in a year or two.

1, Wall
2, Beal
3, Porter/Shabazz
4, Smith
5, Nene

Or if you draft a big like Zeller or Len, then I think you have to try and keep Martell and that's a playoff team for next year, and a very strong foundation for the long term because you can build around Zeller or Len/Beal/Wall for the 2017 seasons when Smith and Nene would probably be gone and Zeller/Len would be coming up for his extension.

Bottom line, you've got to keep this year's draft pick. Do not budge on this. Let Smith go to a different team before you give up this pick. This is the last really high pick we're going to get.

[Skin'emAlive]

I am not sure if Smith meshes that well with this team. But there are some things to consider regarding how he meshes with Wall:

1. Can he space the floor?

A: Well, if we are talking about him spacing the floor as a 4, he is probably more reliable from long range than Singleton ( our only stretch 4).

2. If he is not a spacer, can he run, cut, and finish at the rim?

A: He is better than Booker, Seraphin, Vesely, Singleton, and Okafor at this aspect. Nene is a mid range, post up option. While he has the ability to run the floor, i think injuries have robbed him of this trait. So now he has adapted the Caron Butler triple pump/head fake each time down low. So if this continues to be the norm, which i think age will certify, Smith would be better than anyone we currently have at this. On top of that, as noted in previous posts, he is a terrific finisher at the rim.

3. Can he hit free throws?

A: Not very well. But that being said, only Seraphin and Nene are better (Singleton has too low of a sample size, and doesnt get to the rim as much). If Seraphin is included in a trade ( which i would have to believe would be more probable than Crawford), then only Nene is better from the line down low

4. Can he play defense?

A: Yes. Possibly better than anyone on the team

5. Can he rebound?

A: Yes. Only Okafor would be better than him.

6. Does he pass if the shot is not there?

A: This may be his biggest weakness. But that being said... Seraphin doesnt pass. Ves cant shoot. Booker catapults his shots. Singleton stands at the 3. So i see this as a push.

7. Can he shoot?

A: Seraphin has a better shot now in my opinion. Nene's shot has fallen off. Okafor's is getting better as the season rolls on. Singleton small sample size. Booker and Ves can not. So even if he cant shoot that efficiently, he would be filling a roll where he is averaging more over his career than the status quo.

So with all those points being considered, I think he is obviously an upgrade and would fit the system we have in place currently equally, with a possibility to be much better. But we have to include either Okafor or Ariza in the trade. And if he doesnt work out and we decide not to pay him... hurray cap space.

So i would trade Ariza, Seraphin, and Ves/Booker/2nd for Josh Smith. Use the 1st on a SF (hopefully Shabazz) or a C. Okafor is shipped mid season next year for a 6th man. Nene moves to C and Smith to PF. And viola, we have a contending team. I would prefer to keep Crawford here as the 6th man PG, but i dont see it happening. Webster can hold down the SF spot should we not be able to grab Shabazz. Shipping Seraphin saves us from the high amount he is going to ask for at the end of his contract. But i could be ok shipping Ok instead of Seraphin as well i guess.

[RonArtest15]

I'm not sure how I feel about Josh Smith. I'm lukewarm on the trade ESPECIALLY with a big pay day for him on the horizon. He'd be amazing in transition, but he's not with out flaws. If...and I mean IF he can stop taking ill-advised jumpers and keep the majority of his shots in the paint, we'd be getting a steal. There's a reason why Hawks fans groan when he takes jumpers from 16-23.

I heard on the radio that the only untouchables on the roster are Wall/Beal/Nene. If it was me, I'd be looking to move Nene if the right deal came along. Wall and Beal, I get. Nene, not so much.

*edit*

I'm more leaning towards "no" on the Smith trade. His age being a HUGE factor in this. He's not going to be much better than what he is now and he's EXTREMELY flawed. What I fear is that if the Wizards do make this deal, Smith will ball out in hopes of a new deal. We'll give him max contract and we'll be stuck with him until he's 33.

[stevemcqueen1]

My main worry about Smith is the financials of it all. Because of them, I think you almost have to build the deal around Okafor. You're going to need all of those young cheap rookie deals to fill out the roster after you sign Smith IMO.

What is ATL trying to accomplish? They're trying to get something for Smith so he doesn't leave for nothing. But he's coming off one of the worst seasons of his career and his value is probably at one of it's slowest points. I think he'd constitute buying low as far as trade assets are concerned. But cap space is also valuable for ATL so they don't have to deal him if they don't get something that helps them back. They probably want to rebuild around Horford and most of the roster is open. I'd imagine they don't want any long term big contracts, and they do want something good and young or a draft pick(s) out of it.

Josh is in his 9th year. He's not going to get better from here on out. BUT, his level of play should pick up. For one thing, playing with a PG like Wall would be a big plus for a player like Josh Smith. He's never had a good PG in ATL and a guy like him needs a good PG or else he's going to shot jack. Also you have to figure he'll regress back to his mean, especially once he's happy. A change of scenery could help.

Smith at PF is a good fit for us. Smith at SF is not. He bumps Nene to C and that's a nice front court. Nene is a positional defender and boxes out. Smith eats up rebounds and can come over from the weak side to block shots.

The big plus of signing Smith is that he's a DPOY caliber defender that led the league in defensive win shares last season. With defensive bigs as good as him and Nene, our defense could truly be elite. Especially as Wall and Beal grow into the kind of perimeter defenders they are capable of being. The team would be athletic enough to run a transition offense and powerful enough to slow down and defend in the half court.

His scoring would drop but his efficiency would climb and his rebounding would probably climb.

Trade for him, top ten protect the pick for this year and top 5 protect it for next year. It's a bit of a gamble since we're almost certainly picking top ten this year and you never know if we'll be picking top five next year--particularly if Josh Smith left in FA.

Use the draft pick on the best potential center or small forward available. If you get Shabazz or Otto Porter or Anthony Bennett, start them at SF as a rookie most likely. If you get Nerlens or Zeller or Len, you can afford to bring them along very slowly and let their bodies develop for the NBA. At that point, both Porter and Muhammad would be such great fits. Porter especially, because he can rebound and shoot. I think that group could probably be the best starting 5 in the league in a couple years.

The whole outlook of the Wizards gets changed in just two more big moves.

2013/2014 roster:

PG: Wall, Price
SG: Beal, Temple
SF: Muhammad/Porter, Ariza
PF: Smith, Ves/Singleton/Booker
C: Nene, X

That's a powerful team. Smith kind of puts us on the map and is a signal we're ready to make the playoffs and maybe get out of the first round.

But you've got to make the financials work. You've got to clear out the PF depth. You've got to get Smith to extend for a smart contract. You've got to make that draft pick count too, since it's the last high pick we'd probably be getting for a while.

---------- Post added February-19th-2013 at 10:19 AM ----------

Wall
Beal
Ariza
Smith
Nene

could legitimately be the best defensive team in the league next season.

[RonArtest15]

My main worry about Smith is the financials of it all. Because of them, I think you almost have to build the deal around Okafor. You're going to need all of those young cheap rookie deals to fill out the roster after you sign Smith IMO.

What is ATL trying to accomplish? They're trying to get something for Smith so he doesn't leave for nothing. But he's coming off one of the worst seasons of his career and his value is probably at one of it's slowest points. I think he'd constitute buying low as far as trade assets are concerned. But cap space is also valuable for ATL so they don't have to deal him if they don't get something that helps them back. They probably want to rebuild around Horford and most of the roster is open. I'd imagine they don't want any long term big contracts, and they do want something good and young or a draft pick(s) out of it.

Josh is in his 9th year. He's not going to get better from here on out. BUT, his level of play should pick up. For one thing, playing with a PG like Wall would be a big plus for a player like Josh Smith. He's never had a good PG in ATL and a guy like him needs a good PG or else he's going to shot jack. Also you have to figure he'll regress back to his mean, especially once he's happy. A change of scenery could help.

Smith at PF is a good fit for us. Smith at SF is not. He bumps Nene to C and that's a nice front court. Nene is a positional defender and boxes out. Smith eats up rebounds and can come over from the weak side to block shots.

The big plus of signing Smith is that he's a DPOY caliber defender that led the league in defensive win shares last season. With defensive bigs as good as him and Nene, our defense could truly be elite. Especially as Wall and Beal grow into the kind of perimeter defenders they are capable of being. The team would be athletic enough to run a transition offense and powerful enough to slow down and defend in the half court.

His scoring would drop but his efficiency would climb and his rebounding would probably climb.

Trade for him, top ten protect the pick for this year and top 5 protect it for next year. It's a bit of a gamble since we're almost certainly picking top ten this year and you never know if we'll be picking top five next year--particularly if Josh Smith left in FA.

Use the draft pick on the best potential center or small forward available. If you get Shabazz or Otto Porter or Anthony Bennett, start them at SF as a rookie most likely. If you get Nerlens or Zeller or Len, you can afford to bring them along very slowly and let their bodies develop for the NBA. At that point, both Porter and Muhammad would be such great fits. Porter especially, because he can rebound and shoot. I think that group could probably be the best starting 5 in the league in a couple years.

The whole outlook of the Wizards gets changed in just two more big moves.

2013/2014 roster:

PG: Wall, Price
SG: Beal, Temple
SF: Muhammad/Porter, Ariza
PF: Smith, Ves/Singleton/Booker
C: Nene, X

That's a powerful team. Smith kind of puts us on the map and is a signal we're ready to make the playoffs and maybe get out of the first round.

But you've got to make the financials work. You've got to clear out the PF depth. You've got to get Smith to extend for a smart contract. You've got to make that draft pick count too, since it's the last high pick we'd probably be getting for a while.

---------- Post added February-19th-2013 at 10:19 AM ----------

Wall
Beal
Ariza
Smith
Nene

could legitimately be the best defensive team in the league next season.

If we go out and add Smith, that Wall, Beal, Ariza, Smith, Nene lineup would have no one outside of Beal that could stretch the floor. We need a stretch 4 more than anything else and Smith doesn't fit that mold. I would LOVE for this team to take a flyer on Matt Bonner. See what it would take to get him. Having him off the bench > having Josh Smith as a starter. I think there is more value there than with Smith.

[Gator Bait]

[QUOTE=nuposse87;9431578]

[COLOR="Gold"]

In this case size doesn't matter, especially when you're trying to equate Josh Smith into being a "good SF". He's very unskilled from the perimeter. Career wise, he isn't a guy you want anywhere but the paint, nor is he fast enough to blow by truly elite SFs (not anymore at least). You can say my reading comprehension sucks or w/e, but the fact is your argument wreaks of incompetence.

Size always matters in basketball. That's why guys like JaVale McGee and Brenden Haywood get 10-12 million per year. Josh Smith is one of the best athletes in the NBA; he is very fast and agile/athletic for a guy his size. He can defend the majority of current NBA players....that's a huge asset to have on a team.

I don't give a **** whether or not you believe don't try to insinuate that I'm liar and then brush it off as if its point of actual discussion. I'd venture to say almost everyone on this board who lives in the DMV area has attempted or gone to a game, as I have, and you don't see anything different than you do on TV. I hardly doubt anyone goes to a game and watches one player off the ball the whole ****ing game. Don't bring your GF into this, I don't want to bash anyone who is undeserving.

You obviously aren't much of a basketball guy, haven't been to a game, or maybe you are just plain dumb (do you flip burgers for a living...just curious) because anyone with any kind of basketball knowledge who has been to a game knows it is much different than watching on TV. The cameras don't capture the whole court and all the players at once. When you are at the game you can see plays develop...just like hockey and football. You can watch someone's off the ball movement on offense and defense. It makes a big difference.

Ummm he is absolutely a tweener forward. 6'9 with a standing reach similar to B. Griffin's if I'm not mistaken. He's better as stretch 4 who can't shoot (which is odd in itself). His athleticism isn't good enough to cover up the lack of shooting skill he has from outside (although career year this year for him, but also contract year, not too surprised). Not to mention he's going to be 28 in '13-14 season (which I imagine would be the first season we'd see dividends from acquiring this terrible 6'9 walking mediocre treadmill of a player). He's 27, his FT shooting isn't going to get much better. Remember, he's shooting like close to 50% this season. If he gets up to 60% again it isn't like we've rid ourselves of his liability. I'm sure he has coaches working with him on this, so it isn't something you can bank on.

a tweener is a player who doesn't fit in as a PF or a SF....doesn't have a true position. Too weak/small to be a PF, or not quick/athletic enough to be a SF. Josh can play both positions at a high level. You don't have to be an outside shooter to be a good SF in the NBA. It definitely helps, but it is not a must. MKG can't shoot and he went 2nd in the draft this year. He is an elite defender and has a high motor....he creates matchup problems and can get to the rim.

it's ignorant for you to think he is bad in the FT category now and that he will not improve. Bwood raised his FT% almost 20% one year because of the shooting coach we employed that year....but you already know that since you watch 90% of games.

He doesn't dominate the boards, he's got a 1.3:1 Assist to TO ratio, while at least not below 1, isn't exactly dominate. 17.5 points a game on bad TS on high usage isn't a good scorer. He's a scorer, but more like corey magette, who, I'm sure...nobody wants.

Anyone who can score 17-20 ppg, pull down 8 rebounds, and get 4 assists per game is an elite player. I'll take 8 boards from my SF all day....although he might drop one or two boards if he was primarily a SF for us. You call his TS% bad....but he is barely under the league average. He is just about average when it comes to TS%...and he will be above average once that FT% comes up.

elite? Well, LBJ, Durant, Melo are all clearly in the top 3. Paul George would be next, as he's played tremendous ball in the last 35 games, not to mention his all NBA caliber defense. I'd say Pierce and Batum come next, Pierce is clearly on a downward trejectory though, but we're just talkin this season. Batum plays excellent D and does a lot considering POR has no bench, not to mention he's been fighting through injuries this season. The only thing "elite" about Rudy Gay is that he's hyper athletic. The problem is his shot selection and efficiency, which is the same regarding Smith.

None of the guys mentioned in your top three are primarily SFs.....LeBron has been used primarily as a PF this year and last year during the playoffs...they typically play with a smaller lineup so they can utilize all their best players (which are all wings). Carmelo Anthony, like LeBron, plays PF for his team as well....same type situation, they aren't deep in the front court and usually play with a small lineup. Durant is better (obviously). Pierce is just about done, he used to be better, but at this point I wouldn't say so. I agree with you on Batum...I love his game; he is the epitome of a do it all SF, but I find it interesting you know Gay and Smith for being "inefficient" players, yet Batum shoots 42% from the field and you don't seem to have much of a problem with that.

[Fight4RGIII]

Steve, they were measuring Smith's shots from 7.5 feet within the basket and more than 7.5 feet from the basket. That's where they are getting the percentages from.

---------- Post added February-19th-2013 at 10:58 AM ----------

And also, I saw John Wall gave out a jersey on his facebook page. The winner? His name was Steve McQueen

[Gator Bait]

Bottom line, you've got to keep this year's draft pick. Do not budge on this. Let Smith go to a different team before you give up this pick. This is the last really high pick we're going to get.

Agree....and I will admit that even though I stand by my thoughts on Josh being able to play SF....I think your plan is better to move him to the 4 and draft a three. I doubt we'd be able to get the trade done without throwing in a draft pick, but I'd rather trade picks with them this year or just trade our 2014 first rounder.

The Hawks offered Josh to the 6ers for Evan Turner and Spenser Hawes, so our offer would have to top that....I don't think we can w/o draft picks.