Honestly, ES Should Probably Be Shut Down....

[Henry]

Trent Williams and Jamaal Brown aren't upgrades from our tackles last season? I think you can add Artis Hicks to the upgrade list as well. Landry is also vastly improved over last year and this defense seems perfectly suited for Orakpo. Unfortunately, it's not suited to Carter and many others...we've made upgrades in several areas and have also had to take hits in others.

kleese, that's maybe two players. Williams, as promising as he looks, is not an upgrade of Samuels. He's a replacement. Landry would look vastly improved at SS in any scheme. The fact is he looked like crap playing out of position, so we switched him and now the guy replacing him at FS looks like crap. Orakpo looked great last year and he looks great this year. Most likely he's a great player.

If we are improving the team two players at a time both Shanahan and McNabb will be using walkers by the time we're ready to beat teams like the Rams.

You simply cannot point to one or two, or even five ok players and suggest that means we've got promising young talent. EVERY team in the league can do that. Even the Rams and Lion and the Chiefs. What you need to do when you completely suck is be able to point the 15 or 20 guys that are young and promising. Guys that will all hit their prime at the same time. the Redskins are not doing that. They aren't close to doing that. They never do that. And until they do, we're gonna see more games like this one.

Here's hoping, again, that we finally start building this team for real next year.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Several things to address:

1. This one will sting...but I honestly don't think McNabb was necessarily brought in to win a SB. I think Shanny wanted to start the rebuild with Bradford, but it became obvious that the Rams were not going to pass on him/trade the pick. I think he looked at his options and decided he needed a stabalizing force at QB...maybe just to bridge the gap. I never viewed the McNabb trade as a "win now" move...we simply didn't have any other options in terms of adding a young QB this off-season. McNabb is competent and should help make this process a bit less painful. My guess is that we add a developmental QB in the very near future.

I agree with this first point and was on the Bradford bandwagon predraft.

Shanny wanted Bradford but knew what was more important going into this year was getting a QB/LT in rounds 1 and 2.

That was accomplished with the McNabb trade and getting Williams. If the Redskins had any inclination that a) it wouldn't cost an arm, leg and 3 years of draft picks for Bradford, they would have traded up.

McNabb was plan B, i.e the route he went with in Denver with Elway at age 33-34. But based on what Shanny did with Denver in the 2006 draft, I see him taking that route again soon here

[Homercles82]

kleese, that's maybe two players. Williams, as promising as he looks, is not an upgrade of Samuels. He's a replacement. Landry would look vastly improved at SS in any scheme. The fact is he looked like crap playing out of position, so we switched him and now the guy replacing him at FS looks like crap. Orakpo looked great last year and he looks great this year. Most likely he's a great player.
.

Pretty hard to get something better than Chris Samuels.

[Henry]

Doe it really matter what the 'plan' is? If we don't have the players to fit the scheme, then we're not gonna be successful in the scheme. Eventually, if Snyder is serious about Shanny, then they're going to have to start the rebuilding process.

I think it does matter what the plan is.

If the plan is to win now, you gotta win now.

If the plan is to build for the future, you have to stockpile picks and take your lumps playing lots of young guys.

From what I can see, the Redskins aren't doing either of those things yet.

[Monte51Coleman]

Okay, I'll say it- bull****.

Agreed, the new regime has a mess to clean up. A big mess. A multiple-years mess.

So their first step is to sign or retain every over-the-hill player available? To employ a scheme that doesn't match the talent? To trade for a quarterback that will be done by the time the rest of the pieces are in place?

Shanahan is clearly trying to be competitive now. Relying mainly on older veterans proves it. If not, then why in the world would Joey Galloway be starting while Devin Thomas can't get on the field for one play?

This team is at least a three-year rebuilding project. Doesn't Shanahan realize that yet? (Maybe now he does.) He should start acting like it.

[Brotherz]

Agreed in part. All of us could handle (or at least most of us) this kind of utter incompetence and ineptitude from a franchise that said "we were 4-12 and have been an abomination for the last decade and a half and we are now going to change that". The problem that is causing the reaction from this fan base is this is just more of the same.

This is "the future is now". When you go and throw away a 2nd round pick for Donovan Mcnabb, throw away another pick for Jamaal Brown, sign willie parker and larry Johnson, etc etc. you are not rebuilding your franchise. This front office set the expectations of a turn-around. If we used all of our draft picks, traded haynesworth, andre carter, santana moss, london fletcher, etc for MORE draft picks and had a young inexperienced team learning from Shanny we would all be ok with this performance.

You think we are ever going to sign mcnabb to an extension at this point? You think we go 5-11 this year, and the vikings job and cardinals jobs are open and he stays here? If he leaves where are we? We got FLEECED if that happens.

People are pissed because they signed aging veterans AGAIN and gave away draft picks and changed things that were working (ie the defense) without any consideration for what we had personnel wise. That's all fine and dandy if this is a four year plan and we are going through a learning curve with a bunch of twenty year old rookies we drafted. That's not what happened. We got our asses smoked by the worst team in the league - a team that is doing it the right way. That's why people are pissed.

[pjfootballer]

I agree with the last 3 posts from Henry, MonteColeman51 and Brotherz. Shanny and Allen need to choose a direction. This is what the fanbase has been screaming about for the last decade. Rebuild or Reload the right way.

[dexter's manley]

Agree with most points, but the defense stunk last year too. Don't throw stats at me - this is a defense that hasn't made a stop when it mattered in YEARS. Stop the BS about the scheme. Our defense has been awful for a long time. Just look at the only stat that matters - wins.

[Mad Mike]

Best thread in the stadium right now. Bravo.

[LD0506]

Did we not notice that the terms of an uncapped year left the FA pool more shallow than Paris Hilton? All of those great young players that people wanted were not available. The choices were add some vets or try and play with a 37 man roster. Options for a drastic overhaul were severely limited. They did make marked improvement to the most glaring need- O line- and no matter what another year of JC's deer-in-the-headlight routine was unacceptable so it is hard to see how adding McNabb is somehow being spun into a bad thing.

The new regime has been in for a few months and was handcuffed in what changes could be made, but oh no, ignore all that and light the torches because Madden said we were going to the Superbowl.

[HigSkin]

Let me point out a few things:

--The Rams were 1-15 last year; we were 4-12. There really isn't a big difference there.

--The Rams probably have a talent level approaching ours...this is something people don't want to hear, but it's true. If you think the Redskins are vastly more talented than St. Louis, you are either on crack or a Redskins homer that overrates the team's potential...or both.

They aren't who we thought they were!

Bravo Kleese..

[jflow78]

I actually didn't have any problem going 6-10 this season. We had a lot we needed to fix and one off season wouldn't do it.

My biggest issue with the game yesterday was directly on Kyle's shoulders. At the half we had tons of momentum, we were running the ball over these guys like their DL was made of leaves, something like a 9 ypc ave and in between Portis and Torain we had 90 yards rushing.

So why the **** did we rush the ball a total FIVE *** **** times in the 2nd half!?!

My problem isn't with the personnel, my problem is with the guys calling the plays. When I can see what the problem is, but the guy that's getting seven figures can't, that's when I start to get pissed.

But, at this point I guess we're a 5-11 team, I guess we're all supposed to lower our expectations until there aren't any now, right? It's not like I had a dream we'd go 8-8 even, but the Rams are one of those teams we should be competitive with, at least. It's not that we weren't, it's that we gave up on our running game, again, and this time it was actually dominating them.

Even so, I've got faith Mike will get things fixed, I still think he's one of the greatest coaches in the league, but his son's play calling is driving me crazy. I don't blame Haslett since it's hard for a D to play for 40 minutes

[roanoker]

Good post. Each year there always seems to be light at the end of the tunnel in turning the team around. Unfortunately, it has just been another train coming. Hopefully, this year Shanny and staff will build a strong foundation.

[GSF]

I couldn't disagree more Kleese. I've always respected you're opinions, but you're way off on this one. First of all, ES is serving a very valuable purpose right now of allowing passionate fans to vent. The mods were very smart to allow people to get it off their chests last night instead of trying to control it. They got it right this time.

As to the team, Henry is right on the money. The roster doesn't fit the scheme. The team has no identity. Why trade for a McNabb when you have no line in front of him. Way too many holes to continue to to trade away draft picks. These guys are old, slow, and shot. We need a huge infusion of youth.

[kleese]

kleese, that's maybe two players. Williams, as promising as he looks, is not an upgrade of Samuels. He's a replacement. Landry would look vastly improved at SS in any scheme. The fact is he looked like crap playing out of position, so we switched him and now the guy replacing him at FS looks like crap. Orakpo looked great last year and he looks great this year. Most likely he's a great player.

If we are improving the team two players at a time both Shanahan and McNabb will be using walkers by the time we're ready to beat teams like the Rams.

You simply cannot point to one or two, or even five ok players and suggest that means we've got promising young talent. EVERY team in the league can do that. Even the Rams and Lion and the Chiefs. What you need to do when you completely suck is be able to point the 15 or 20 guys that are young and promising. Guys that will all hit their prime at the same time. the Redskins are not doing that. They aren't close to doing that. They never do that. And until they do, we're gonna see more games like this one.

Here's hoping, again, that we finally start building this team for real next year.

Not sure what else you wanted them to do....they cut a boatload of higher-priced vets...you have to fill out the roster with bodies...yes, many of those bodies are vets as well, but they are simply stop-gaps--I ahve a very hard time believing that Shanny is putting any real stock into Galloway or Vonnie Holliday. Signing LJ and Parker was roster fodder...throw something on the wall and see if it sticks...they are both gone already with no negative effects from having signed them.

The McNabb trade seems to be the stumbling block from people here...and I think many misinterpreted the message. We had NO ONE at the position...NO ONE...and I think Shanny realized that the one young guy he really wanted (Bradford) was not going to be available. Rather than be putrid at QB, he made a trade for a vet that will stabalize the spot and keep the set warm until we can get someone younger developed. You can debate the merits of this strategy but I think I see where Shanny was going with it...

One thing that many fans also seem to forget is that Shanny himself may have wanted to actually coach some of these guys before making full roster decisions....maybe he wanted to test the waters and see if this team had a chance to compete before getting rid of all of them?

And you know what? He won't be able to fix it ALL before next season either...no way we get the upgrades at WR, OL, RB, DL, and LB we clearly need. This off-season he focused on fixing the OT position...accomplished and getting a capable QB for the interim...accomplished. Now, it's on to the next task....