Concerns about Orakpo

[Enter Apotheosis]

jesus dude ..."average" c'mon. he might not be as stout as you would like on the run, but he's average 9 sacks a seasn his first three years, he's a team guy, he's a character guy, he has fire.

your standards need to be revised.

There are 9 starting 3-4 OLBs with more sacks than Orakpo. 13 teams are primarily 3-4 teams which mean that Orakpo is 9th out of 26 comparable players. I'd qualify that is fairly average. If you wanted to widen the scope to just pass-rushers in general, Orakpo is 34th in the league in sacks which isn't terribly impressive either.

Now, there were those PFF numbers back in November that suggested that Orakpo was one of the best at getting pressure and you could certainly parlay that information into a compelling pro-Orakpo argument. You have to keep in mind, though, that the knock on Orakpo stems almost entirely from his inability to finish out plays strong (get the sack, force a fumble, etc.).

[Tarantula]

There are 9 starting 3-4 OLBs with more sacks than Orakpo. 13 teams are primarily 3-4 teams which mean that Orakpo is 9th out of 26 comparable players. I'd qualify that is fairly average. If you wanted to widen the scope to just pass-rushers in general, Orakpo is 34th in the league in sacks which isn't terribly impressive either.

Now, there were those PFF numbers back in November that suggested that Orakpo was one of the best at getting pressure and you could certainly parlay that information into a compelling pro-Orakpo argument. You have to keep in mind, though, that the knock on Orakpo stems almost entirely from his inability to finish out plays strong (get the sack, force a fumble, etc.).

For a guy being forced to play an unnatural position, I'd say Rak is damn good. In time both Rak and Kerrigan will be a top 3 LB tandem. Obviously the two would be incredible as DEs, but we run a 3-4, so this is what we've got. Averaging 9 sacks a season is hardly...average.

[Enter Apotheosis]

For a guy being forced to play an unnatural position, I'd say Rak is damn good. In time both Rak and Kerrigan will be a top 3 LB tandem. Obviously the two would be incredible as DEs, but we run a 3-4, so this is what we've got. Averaging 9 sacks a season is hardly...average.

The three season average speaks well to his consistency and durability. That unnatural position line drives me crazy, though. People act as if Orakpo is less of a natural fit at the position than Lamarr Woodley or Tamba Hali, each of whom were thought to have close to zero linebacking potential yet have been quite successful in 3-4 defenses. As a prospect, Orakpo's LB projection compared more favorably to (albeit still better than) Terrell Suggs and DeMarcus Ware. Let's also not forget that Orakpo's production was virtually unchanged from his previous role in the 4-3 to his new role in the 3-4. The only difference is that we haven't seen a QB/o-line combination anywhere near as bad as that 2009 Raiders team over the last two years.

[darrelgreenie]

^^Plus Rak doesn't get the number of rushes the other pass rusher gets (IIRC by rush/sack % he's top 5)
Also, if we could have a lead for a change his sack numbers would increase

[jtyler42]

I think Orakpo is what he is...He will never be an elite upper echelon pass rusher in the NFL, he is far too stiff, and inflexible to consistently bend the corner...he is a 9 to 13 sack per season type guy, and there is nothing wrong with that...

[SJValleySkinz]

So much straw in your post.

So because people argue against negative remarks they are homers? Nope, nobody in here is putting him on a pedestal as you claim.

Orakpo gets a held a bit, but people are talking about his game, not about the rest of the NFL. You don't know if he gets held more often than others around the league, so why pretend otherwise?

Nobody is using him getting held as an "excuse," but rather as evidence that he does get pressure, which results in those holds. I myself said he needs to work through the block before it becomes a hold. Again, you're arguing against points nobody is making and grossly exaggerating the other side of the argument.

Nobody said he's in a sophomore slump, just that it's his 2nd year in the 3-4 and there wasn't an offeason nor much of camp this year. Read the thread, argue actual points people are making.

You have no clue how Rak is going to turn out. None of us do. Claiming he'll never be the caliber of Ware, especially when it's already been pointed out that he's isn't far off of Ware's production through the same amount of games to start his career. That's an arrogant, grossly exaggerated statement and it ruins any credibility in your post.

Oh and PLEASE understand the concept of teamwork. These guys don't play on an island, they play off each other. So when Orakpo gets a double team, it means another defender is freed up elsewhere. Nobody in here has said it happens all the time, but have pointed out that Orakpo is a good part of the reason the Skins are top 10 in sacks this season.

Lots of straw. Arguing against points nobody made and exaggerating the other side's argument as well as your own. Orakpo is only in year 3, so talking about how you know exactly what his production will be each year from here on out is incredibly arrogant and that combined with the straw makes your post very difficult to take seriously. It's too bad, because there are some good parts in it here and there.

---------- Post added December-26th-2011 at 11:50 AM ----------



who will win the Superbowl, since you're so confident you can see into the future. C'mon, just PM me, I have some bets to win. Let me guess, your crazy scientist friend and you traveled into the future in his DeLorean and you picked up a sports alamanac so you know how every player for the next 30 years will turn out. That's it isn't it?

---------- Post added December-26th-2011 at 11:56 AM ----------



Ironic statement, given Harrison didn't crack double digit sacks until his 6th season and Porter in his 12 year career has cracked 10+ sacks only 3 times. Agreed though it's too early to decide. Heck, Jared Allen, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, didn't crack 10+ sacks until his 4th season.

---------- Post added December-26th-2011 at 11:58 AM ----------



Except Orakpo already has similar production to those players you mentioned. "Numbers are nice" is a foolish thing to say in an attempt to deflect from the fact that your idea of Harrison and Porter's roles were off from the reality, which was proven statistically.

I admitted I didn't know their exact sack numbers but if you don't follow the Steelers it sure seems like they had more. All I was trying to say is that that's the type of impact Orakpo needs to make, especially in bigger games, but that's not even my biggest problem with him because it's only his third year. My concern is that he is more suited for a different version of the 3-4 than the one we run. From Greg Lloyd all the way to James Harrison, the players that have done well in that position in this specific scheme we run are very different. What we need to do is give him more of a Terrell Suggs type of role and he will flourish. The bottom line is at the end of the day he needs to be the dominant force on this defense, and not above avarege.

[GSF]

I hate these kinds of stupid posts. Orakpo has been great for us and only going to get better. Geez...

[Vooskin]

I think Orakpo is what he is...He will never be an elite upper echelon pass rusher in the NFL, he is far too stiff, and inflexible to consistently bend the corner...he is a 9 to 13 sack per season type guy, and there is nothing wrong with that...

Pretty much this. Orakpo doesn't have the change of direction and natural body control to be elite in this league as even a pass rushing specialist. He's talented enough to be considered a good to very good pass rusher at times but that's it. He is very bad in space, very bad against the run and in general lacks what the great pass rushers possess.

Hell watch Aldon Smith play, he is fast and strong but it's that looseness in the hips and body control that make all the difference. Demarcus ware's athleticism is far superior to Orakpo as is Terrell Suggs and a number of the elite guys.

See the problem is times have changed, even the more traditional pocket Qbs are much more athletic and move very well in the pocket compared to decades before. Too often do I see Orakpo get near the qb and the qb just does a small step out of his way and ends up making a big play.

I will say, Orakpo is still more of a natural 4-3 rass rusher. Both he and Kerrigan if you look at their college play excelled from that 3 point stance and really needed that extra burst from the leg push to get around the corner.

[moondog]

Pretty much this. Orakpo doesn't have the change of direction and natural body control to be elite in this league as even a pass rushing specialist. He's talented enough to be considered a good to very good pass rusher at times but that's it. He is very bad in space, very bad against the run and in general lacks what the great pass rushers possess.

Hell watch Aldon Smith play, he is fast and strong but it's that looseness in the hips and body control that make all the difference. Demarcus ware's athleticism is far superior to Orakpo as is Terrell Suggs and a number of the elite guys.

See the problem is times have changed, even the more traditional pocket Qbs are much more athletic and move very well in the pocket compared to decades before. Too often do I see Orakpo get near the qb and the qb just does a small step out of his way and ends up making a big play.

I will say, Orakpo is still more of a natural 4-3 rass rusher. Both he and Kerrigan if you look at their college play excelled from that 3 point stance and really needed that extra burst from the leg push to get around the corner.

Pretty solid post and one that I very much agree with given one exception - that he is a "very bad" run defender. I think he has made vast improvements this year against the run and in pass coverage.

But I very much agree about what you are saying when it comes to hip flexibility or "looseness."

In terms of the 9-13 sack range though: I've posted before (possibly another thread) that in somewhere along the lines of 8 out of the last 10 years, 13.5 sacks was good enough to be in the top 5 (I think even top 4) in the entire league in sacks. This is a crazy year where a lot of guys have a lot of sacks.

I think Orakpo is fully capable of being a dominant pass rusher in the 14-15 range on a team that regularly plays with a lead and can force a team to be one dimensional on offense, but we have only gotten to see what he is capable of in a game like that a few times.

I agree wholeheartedly about Orakpo and Kerrigan and how they fit in a defense. Yes, they and several other players are fully capable of excelling in different defenses and some, like Ware, have proven many wrong about being able to transition to a 3-4. But I think Kerrigan and Orakpo both are pass-rushers that significantly improve their ability to get to the QB when they can line up further inside (right over the Tackle's outside shoulder) and get that extra burst from the 3-point stance. Probably even more so in Orakpo's case. It's unfortunate that we won't get to see that. I remember his rookie year, I think either all or all but one of his sacks came in limited snaps rushing with his hand in the dirt from the 4-3 DE position.

[posse87]

I believe Orakpo's production will increase to Ware's level when he is used in the variety of positions that Ware is. Kerrigan has been learining and playing at a very high end level, but until they can move those two around almost interchangeably, and exploit matchup problems like the Cowboys do with Ware, then teams will be able to game plan against Orakpo more easily. With another offseason under Kerrigans belt, I believe they are ready to do that next year. I'm also really excited to see Jenkins get intpo the DE as well.

[Loyal2Washington]

Will Orakpo ever be Ware or held in the regard of other elite pass rushers, probably not. Do we have far more important matters to worry about, like QB, then our defensive front seven that has generated enough pressure and sacks that a component offense would be able to team with to make a playoff push, yes.

If we don't have future HOF'ers at every position most Redskin fans seem to throw a fit. Orakpo is a good solid football player that would benefit from a playing on a better overall team. I will say I like Kerrigan's game at this stage in his career then Orakpo's but that is honestly splitting hairs.

[Dirt]

I just don't think there's any room to complain about Orakpo. Or say, Carriker. Why aren't we complaining about him? I believe he was the exact same (13th overall) pick as Orakpo. Because he's not in Geico commercials?

This is ridiculous. Mainly because it's starting to look like we will complain about EVERYTHING unless it is a pro bowler, best stats in the league etc, at every position. Are we just going to ***** ***** ***** until the NFC Pro Bowl team i nothing but Redskins?

Complain about DHall, he's had some drama this year. Complain about Rex, he won't stop throwing picks. Hell, complain that Banks hasn't taken one to the house yet. But Orakpo? A player who pretty much any team in the NFL would love to have? ok...

[Dirt]

11, 8.5, 7 - Thats Orakpo numbers by season. Thats the opposite of what we're looking for here. He's supposed to be improving. 3 years after being drafted, he's not getting better. He's getting worse.

If we played 3 seasons with the exact same defense around him, and the exact same schedule, those numbers might mean something. It's awfully close-minded to just pull those numbers and determine that he's 'getting worse as a player'. Are his coverage skills getting better? Does he have more or less tackles per year? Is he still the strongest guy on the field? How much milk does he put in his cereal? I know, it doesn't matter. Just like 2 less sacks doesn't matter. Sack #s are not the end all-be all. Just as they aren't the way to determine your Oline skill (another thread)

And STOP telling fans to 'adjust their expectations'. That's just not necessary, that's just ****ting on people and being negative for no good reason. The only threads about Orakpo are ones saying we should trade him or he sucks or whatever. It's not like there's some gigantic love fest for Orakpo on this board, and if there were, why would that bother you? Where are all these people calling Orakpo 'elite'? The only reason you're hearing things like that is because they're in RESPONSE to the foolish threads bashing Orakpo. At the risk of sounding childish: "they started it". For crying out loud you think it's SAD that he made the pro bowl? Why? Don't you like this team?

For fun, and since you're so sure, why don't you go ahead and break down exactly how many times Orakpo, Kerrigan, Ware and Allen have been double teamed in relation to other players on their team, the team they're playing against, the score of the game, and everything else that undoubtedly determines what an offense draws up in terms of blocking. Convince me to consider Orakpo mediocre. I don't know why the hell you would want to, but that seems to be your point, so go ahead.

[Dirt]

What I'm saying is, why is it necessary to police people's emotions and expectations. What harm does it do to anyone? This theme of bashing Orakpo is coming up quite often, and those who defend him are told to 'lower their expectations'. Why? Why was any of that necessary? let people think what they want. Besides, he's a good football player. Would you go into a thread about Santana Moss and remind everyone that he's not as good as Randy Moss? Just a dick move IMO.

[BigMike21]

Little Orakpo has been busted for Anabolic Steroids to play football. Let's hope he didn't learn about them from big brother....

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012...olic-steroids/

In Orakpo’s room, police found nine unmarked vials (eight in a refrigerator) as well as syringes, three of which were used. They were sent to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation for testing, according to the report. When interviewed along with attorney Erik Fischer by the police, Orakpo was asked if those vials could present a problem for him. Fischer interjected and said they could but disagreed with their being collected as evidence.

Orakpo is the younger brother of Washington Redskins defensive end Brian. Marijuana was also found at the residence of both CSU players, but neither could be tied directly to the athletes because they both have roommates.