Andrew Luck theory: After the bye, did Shanahan tank the Redskins season on purpose? Was there hidden purpose in the McNabb extension?

[KDawg]

Carolina no but Buffalo you never know, they are the ones who passed up on OL help and help in other areas for Spiller. They maybe are the most confusing team to understand when it comes to picks.

I wouldn't pass on him but a team like Cincy could since they still have Palmer and the Brown family could still want him to prove his worth the money they paid him. Carolina wouldn't pass on him though unless somehow someone says I'll take Clausen over him(big mistake IMO) our best bet though is that Detroit finishes #1 and we move up with them so they can get Patrick Peterson and we can get Luck

Ehhh...

Buffalo is bad, and I can tell you their fans want Luck. I don't think they pass on him. Buddy Nix isn't a stupid guy. I also don't see Carolina passing on him. Detroit obviously would, but I'm sure they'd use their pick. I also don't see Cincinnati passing up on him.

Truth be told, I'd rather not trade up... I'd rather trade down, gather extra picks. If Newton is available with a second 1st rounder... (or an early second rounder) take a flier on him. No guarantees with him, sure, but if he pans out he'll be a monster. Yes, I'd rather have Andrew Luck. If he's on the board when we draft and we don't take him, we've got some issues (unless, of course, we target someone else and we trade him for a few year's worth of draft picks... I'd almost be okay with that)

[Dukes and Skins]

Ehhh...

Buffalo is bad, and I can tell you their fans want Luck. I don't think they pass on him. Buddy Nix isn't a stupid guy. I also don't see Carolina passing on him. Detroit obviously would, but I'm sure they'd use their pick. I also don't see Cincinnati passing up on him.

Truth be told, I'd rather not trade up... I'd rather trade down, gather extra picks. If Newton is available with a second 1st rounder... (or an early second rounder) take a flier on him. No guarantees with him, sure, but if he pans out he'll be a monster. Yes, I'd rather have Andrew Luck. If he's on the board when we draft and we don't take him, we've got some issues (unless, of course, we target someone else and we trade him for a few year's worth of draft picks... I'd almost be okay with that)

I see Cam Newton being nothing more than a Vince Young type who struggles to learn the pro style offense and relies on his feet to much and ends up being a starter but not a great starter. If we don't move up for Luck then we have to wait for 2012 for QB's then and take either Blaine Gabbert, Matt Barkley or Aaron Murray. They won't be on the level of Luck but they'll be very good QB's for us

[KDawg]

I was responding to what you wrote...

But you missed the point in what I was writing...

I said that noone is going to trade for McNabb to be their franchise quarterback... that's in position to take Andrew Luck. San Francisco isn't in position to take Luck, and San Fran. might even finish with a better record than we do. Why would we trade McNabb to San Fran. for a lower first round draft pick?

---------- Post added December-9th-2010 at 09:54 PM ----------

I see Cam Newton being nothing more than a Vince Young type who struggles to learn the pro style offense and relies on his feet to much and ends up being a starter but not a great starter. If we don't move up for Luck then we have to wait for 2012 for QB's then and take either Blaine Gabbert, Matt Barkley or Aaron Murray. They won't be on the level of Luck but they'll be very good QB's for us

We disagree on our assessments of Newton. I see a lot of positives for him. And I very well could be wrong, I'm generally not a fan of the scrambling type of QB. But Newton has a chance to be very special. Not that Luck doesn't. As far as QBs go, I'd say Luck is the better prospect... But instead of mortgaging the future for Luck, why not find a way to take a late 1st early 2nd flier on a guy with the potential to be a stud and gather extra picks in the process by trading back to grab Rodney Hudson (if we don't sign guards) or a nose tackle prospect?

[ATLredskin]

But you missed the point in what I was writing...

I said that noone is going to trade for McNabb to be their franchise quarterback... that's in position to take Andrew Luck. San Francisco isn't in position to take Luck, and San Fran. might even finish with a better record than we do. Why would we trade McNabb to San Fran. for a lower first round draft pick?

---------- Post added December-9th-2010 at 09:54 PM ----------



We disagree on our assessments of Newton. I see a lot of positives for him. And I very well could be wrong, I'm generally not a fan of the scrambling type of QB. But Newton has a chance to be very special. Not that Luck doesn't. As far as QBs go, I'd say Luck is the better prospect... But instead of mortgaging the future for Luck, why not find a way to take a late 1st early 2nd flier on a guy with the potential to be a stud and gather extra picks in the process by trading back to grab Rodney Hudson (if we don't sign guards) or a nose tackle prospect?

I forgot...i'm not as swift as my usual self (I got it right? like how Crowder said it)

[Dukes and Skins]

But you missed the point in what I was writing...

I said that noone is going to trade for McNabb to be their franchise quarterback... that's in position to take Andrew Luck. San Francisco isn't in position to take Luck, and San Fran. might even finish with a better record than we do. Why would we trade McNabb to San Fran. for a lower first round draft pick?

---------- Post added December-9th-2010 at 09:54 PM ----------



We disagree on our assessments of Newton. I see a lot of positives for him. And I very well could be wrong, I'm generally not a fan of the scrambling type of QB. But Newton has a chance to be very special. Not that Luck doesn't. As far as QBs go, I'd say Luck is the better prospect... But instead of mortgaging the future for Luck, why not find a way to take a late 1st early 2nd flier on a guy with the potential to be a stud and gather extra picks in the process by trading back to grab Rodney Hudson (if we don't sign guards) or a nose tackle prospect?

Well I see that KDawg but also at the same time say you spend that pick on Newton and he fails in the pro game. You then spend a 2nd rounder on someone who doesn't fit the team and pass up on someone else who could have had a bigger impact on the team. It's tough because I see what you see KDawg I see the talent of someone who's unreal but I also see Newton going in the 1st probably a lot higher than he should because of the hype a lot like VY did. Add into the fact that Newton has attempted around 250 passes in his career while VY attempted over 700 and there is worry about what Newton can do.

Personally if I were running the team which is crazy to think because I'd be a bad GM I'd do something like this

FA:
Ryan Kalil
Davin Joseph

Draft:
Trade pick 7 for pick 17 and a 2nd

17th pick: Allen Bailey DE Miami
2nd round pick: Von Miller OLB Texas A&M
2nd round pick: Rodney Hudson OG Florida State

Those 3 right there solidify our OL and our D with Miller being the dynamic pass rusher opposite Orakpo, Bailey being a great pass rusher from the DE spot and Hudson solidifying our LG position and creating a great tandem with Williams

I would love Luck but if Carolina is dead set then I'd let them take him and I'd go for the QB in 2012 and take Blaine Gabbert

[MrSilverMaC]

Back when Gibbs came back, these threads were interesting, and to me there was hope that our front office was smart enough to try to maneuver in ways that didn't need to make sense to us fans, or even other teams in order to put us in position to do something really good. But time and again theory threads like this have proven to be ridiculous.

We aren't losing in order to achieve some Machiavellian plan to attain some out of reach goal. The Redskins suck. Period. They are a bad team. They are losing because the other teams they are playing are better. And in some cases, as you can tell by the score, a lot better.

We need offensive linemen, defensive linemen, and a solid running back not to mention a respectable receiving threat. That is a lot of holes for one team. And a team with that many needs isn't losing on purpose just to work their way into drafting a qb which is a crap shoot regardless of how you come by the pick to draft him. They are losing because their teams is lacking talent.

[DOOG]

I cant decide if I should ask for some of the **** you have been smoking or not! :P

[KDawg]

Well I see that KDawg but also at the same time say you spend that pick on Newton and he fails in the pro game. You then spend a 2nd rounder on someone who doesn't fit the team and pass up on someone else who could have had a bigger impact on the team. It's tough because I see what you see KDawg I see the talent of someone who's unreal but I also see Newton going in the 1st probably a lot higher than he should because of the hype a lot like VY did. Add into the fact that Newton has attempted around 250 passes in his career while VY attempted over 700 and there is worry about what Newton can do.

Personally if I were running the team which is crazy to think because I'd be a bad GM I'd do something like this

FA:
Ryan Kalil
Davin Joseph

Draft:
Trade pick 7 for pick 17 and a 2nd

17th pick: Allen Bailey DE Miami
2nd round pick: Von Miller OLB Texas A&M
2nd round pick: Rodney Hudson OG Florida State

Those 3 right there solidify our OL and our D with Miller being the dynamic pass rusher opposite Orakpo, Bailey being a great pass rusher from the DE spot and Hudson solidifying our LG position and creating a great tandem with Williams

I would love Luck but if Carolina is dead set then I'd let them take him and I'd go for the QB in 2012 and take Blaine Gabbert

I'd be okay with all of that assuming Newton is off the board for the two second round picks. And I believe you're right in saying he will be. I definitely don't want to sabotage our entire draft for the guy. But if for some reason he's there when we pick in the second round, I say pull the trigger. Otherwise, I have no issue with your plan. Although, we need to find a nose... Bad.

[Dukes and Skins]

I'd be okay with all of that assuming Newton is off the board for the two second round picks. And I believe you're right in saying he will be. I definitely don't want to sabotage our entire draft for the guy. But if for some reason he's there when we pick in the second round, I say pull the trigger. Otherwise, I have no issue with your plan. Although, we need to find a nose... Bad.

Say hello to Phil Taylor in the 4th/5th round range. He's a guy who I think is the perfect fit for the D we run. We don't take him then Chris Nield is an option from WVU he's in the mold of Kelly Gregg. I have to credit Steve on that one he brought my attention to him and I've been impressed with what I've heard about him

[s0crates]

Are you saying that Shanahan is purposely tanking the season for a high draft pick? Really?

I'll just say I doubt it and leave it at that.

[mistertim]

Its an interesting theory. Maybe a bit out there but you made interesting, rational arguments for it.

As far as trading up goes, I've never really been a fan of it. However, I think if some player comes along that you really think is worth it, you do it. I watched Luck a few times during his first season playing and was impressed and intrigued by him so I made an effort this year to watch him as much as possible and I think he really is THAT good and is worth it. I'm not blind, or a crazy kool-aid drinker, and I really couldn't care less about Stanford one way or the other. But, try as I might, I seriously couldn't find any flaws in the guy's game. Obviously I'm not a pro scout and there are tons of people who know more than I do about the QB position, but I believe I do know enough and have watched enough football over the years to make some passable judgements.

Accuracy? Check
Poise? Check
Vision? Check
Footwork? Check
Throwing mechanics? Check
Ability to read defenses and find his 2nd and 3rd options? Check
Plays in a pro style system with multiple reads? Check
Strong arm? Check
Leadership? Check
Toughness? Check
Size? Check
Ability to feel/avoid pressure? Check
Ability and willingness to scramble/take off with the ball? Check

This is all without a great supporting cast, as well. He has some passable people to throw to, but nobody special; maybe one of them will get drafted in the later rounds. I believe someone posted this in another thread as well, but before he took over as QB Stanford was bad to mediocre as far as protection/sacks allowed. In the two years he has played they have gone from that to being one of the best in the nation. I seriously doubt that is a coincidence. There really are QBs who just make everyone around them look better and Luck is one of those guys. They don't come around very often, but when they do you can see it. If we can pull it off, I would be thrilled. The pain of the draft picks we would lose would hurt, but in the long run I think we could end up with an elite QB to continue to build around.

[andboom]

If we can pick up somebody who can be our franchise qb i say lets do what it takes. of course... in our later picks we need to pick up a hoss to help t williams.

[StillUnknown]

I want us to keep or acquire as many draft picks as possible, but i would trade just about anything to get Luck

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Don't think there's going to be an NFL, and thus hardly anyone will leave early.

Luck will be back at Stanford next year.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Don't think there's going to be an NFL, and thus hardly anyone will leave early.

Luck will be back at Stanford next year.

If so, what's the draft order in 2012? Same?

If so, the Redskins would be in an even stronger position to pull this off.