AP: Armstrong won't challenge doping allegations; loses Tour titles (Lance to confess)

[AsburySkinsFan]

I dont see how it is a cop out to say that when the man was tested 400 times without a positive test. Innocent until proven guilty, which he hasnt yet.

*EDIT* And I dont like Lance Armstrong.

What!?! How dare you not give into the media driven hype and the bitter vedetta against Lance which has been pushed against Lance for years by the Tour organization and primarily French media!!

Lance is 400 and 0. And ya'll come with hearsay, and guilt by association and prejudicial leanings. Remember, it is you all who are making the charges of his guilt as such the onus is on you, and thus far your case is a miserable failure which any independent jury would throw out via acquital.

---------- Post added July-10th-2012 at 08:21 AM ----------

But with all that fellow athletes testimony, allied to the blood work the USADA is putting forward behind this, it'd be nice to hear more than the 'Innocent until proven guilty' line from someone who's pretty steadfast in his opinion of his innocence.

400-0

This isn't like Barry Bonds and baseball where testing was fought, cycling has been the forerunner in drug testing and Lance has been tested more than anyone, and you ask me for evidence of why I think he's innocent?

[Destino]

Lance Armstrong strikes me as a major dbag but it seems like doping agencies are getting way too many bites at the apple here. How many times can you levy the same damn accusation and claim that THIS TIME they have it right before we call it a witch hunt?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I wouldn't call actual blood work from the USADA, showing consistency with transfusions and EPO use to gain a competitive edge 'hearsay', but I guess if it fits the defense, then so be it.

Hail.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

This is the sad reality of our sports stars today. I realize some forms of drug use has been going on for decades, but it seems like a dark cloud over sports in general within the last 20 years. It's sad to think about the selfishness and greed that athletes have nowadays. To have to drug yourself up to win a bicycle race instead of using your own power and mind to acheive it. Sad, really sad.

how has PEDs hurt your sports viewing tho? I never understand this.

Im not defending the use of PEDs, but I feel this is a baseball writers infatuation that has taken over other sports.

Innocent until proven guilty, even in the face of what appears to be an overwhelming amount of evidence. For what it's worth, I agree that from what I've heard, Lance Armstrong is a dick, but he has done a lot of good, and his ******* persona didn't stop me from buying a LiveStrong brand elliptical for the house.

just dont try and make money off the word "strong," you will be getting a letter from Lance's organization.

---------- Post added July-10th-2012 at 09:23 AM ----------

This isn't like Barry Bonds and baseball where testing was fought, cycling has been the forerunner in drug testing and Lance has been tested more than anyone, and you ask me for evidence of why I think he's innocent?

untrue.

and to top it off, the stuff that Lance was alleged to have been doing, they had no tests for it. You can keep putting your head in the sand tho.

[HOF44]

Do I think Armstrong was medically or chemically enhancing his performance?? I do. Do I think I can prove it??? No

The real sad thing about this and a lot of major sports is that to win at the level he was you HAD to do it. All the very top competitors in mega endurance, strength, or speed were partaking and to compete straight would essentially give up any chance you had to be at the very top. We can render judgment on these guys all we want, but until you dedicated your life to the pursuit and walk in their shoe's I'm hesitant to say what I would or would not do.

[ixcuincle]

I think it's very naive to believe Armstrong was clean when he won his 7 TdF victories.

1. Why would one go to Michele Ferrari for help?

2. His former team mates Landis, Beltran, Heras and Hamilton got caught.

3. Armstrong beat Ullrich, Beloki, Zülle, Vinokourov, Klöden, Basso and Rumsas. Guys who have been caught and banned from cycling. If Armstrong didn't use any performance enhancing drugs, he would've been left behind and lose minutes against his opponents.

[Forehead]

Do I think Armstrong was medically or chemically enhancing his performance?? I do. Do I think I can prove it??? No

The real sad thing about this and a lot of major sports is that to win at the level he was you HAD to do it. All the very top competitors in mega endurance, strength, or speed were partaking and to compete straight would essentially give up any chance you had to be at the very top. We can render judgment on these guys all we want, but until you dedicated your life to the pursuit and walk in their shoe's I'm hesitant to say what I would or would not do.

Yeah, I mean, if I was out at dinner with my boss, who was a drunk, and I could get a promotion just by drinking more beers than my co-workers, well then bottoms up. Now sure, it's not a great example because beer is legal, but my point is, I live a relatively dry life outside of tailgating, but to get ahead, I'm willing to relax my standards a bit. If I had trained my ass off for 15 years to get to a certain point, only to find out that every competitor of mine was doing this, I'm not sure how I'd react. I can't say for certain that I would refuse...it would be a question of weighing the ramifications of getting caught against how much blood and sweat had been put into getting there.

[China]

I think it's very naive to believe Armstrong was clean when he won his 7 TdF victories.

1. Why would one go to Michele Ferrari for help?

2. His former team mates Landis, Beltran, Heras and Hamilton got caught.

3. Armstrong beat Ullrich, Beloki, Zülle, Vinokourov, Klöden, Basso and Rumsas. Guys who have been caught and banned from cycling. If Armstrong didn't use any performance enhancing drugs, he would've been left behind and lose minutes against his opponents.

So what you're saying is everybody's pissed off because he's a better cheater then they are and never got caught.

[FrFan]

Again, you're citing lack of evidence as proof of guilt, typically that's considered a weak case destined to lose.

I was responding to your statement

Without evidence it is useless, especially considering he has NEVER failed a test.

Passing a drug test doesn't mean you're clean either, that was my point.
I think if USADA decided to file a case vs him that means they might have evidences, testimonies.

[Thiebear]

I think it's very naive to believe Armstrong was clean when he won his 7 TdF victories.
1. Why would one go to Michele Ferrari for help?
2. His former team mates Landis, Beltran, Heras and Hamilton got caught.
3. Armstrong beat Ullrich, Beloki, Zülle, Vinokourov, Klöden, Basso and Rumsas. Guys who have been caught and banned from cycling. If Armstrong didn't use any performance enhancing drugs, he would've been left behind and lose minutes against his opponents.

So he's guilty because others tested less got caught? And they are saying he did it also?
Just putting my head in the sand until i see something about this "A few tests in 2009/2010 appeared to be tampered with?" as the reason.
*That* I can see as something to focus on.

[Park City Skins]

It's a tough one to be sure. He was,(and is),an outstanding athlete regardless of the use or non use of PED's,(which is a very broad term). As has been stated,he has been tested 400 times so the law of averages starts to kick in there. Though he wouldn't be the first to be tested many times,come up negative,and still end up having done them. Lot's of ways to beat the tests,(which are not even 100% fool proof),including the old mini dose thing. I know a few in this town that have been tested a lot and have come up negative every time. "If you know what you're doing and smart enough,you just about beat all of them" is what I hear from them. Or something like that. Unsure of why his former teammates dropped dime on him,(old school saying),but reasons for "both sides" could be given. Pretty messy situation. Thou after reading what the judge said yesterday,I'd recommend a slightly different approach from Lance's legal team.

[pjfootballer]

how has PEDs hurt your sports viewing tho? I never understand this.

Im not defending the use of PEDs, but I feel this is a baseball writers infatuation that has taken over other sports.

Where did I say the word "view"? People will still watch sports, but in the backs of peoples minds, asterisks will still be there.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Where did I say the word "view"? People will still watch sports, but in the backs of peoples minds, asterisks will still be there.

im wondering why? Why would it put any asterisk or negativity in your mind?

A lot of those older athletes have come out and said they would use too if they were in this era which means guys were probably bending rules back then too.

[pjfootballer]

im wondering why? Why would it put any asterisk or negativity in your mind?

A lot of those older athletes have come out and said they would use too if they were in this era which means guys were probably bending rules back then too.

Again, I never said it was an asterisk in "my" mind, but other people might.

[Special K]

State of the art/light years ahead of standard drug testing masking agents are one helluva drug

For the record, I don't have a personal vendetta against Armstrong.

If I seriously thought he was innocent (e.g. I hadn't heard the stories I had from some pretty credible athletes), I would be defending him, regardless of my thoughts about his personality. The fact that I dislike him just makes the whole thing pretty funny to me.