AP: Armstrong won't challenge doping allegations; loses Tour titles (Lance to confess)

[AsburySkinsFan]

That I agree with 100%. If you're going to ruin a man's life, let's see what you have on him.

Can they even do that though? That would be tantamount to trying him without rebuttal.

[Mursilis]

True, but just because we think there's ways around the test doesn't mean he used. There is no proof that he used except from random people that say they saw him do it.

As already discussed in here, Lance didn't make many friends, so I can't tell who's telling the truth and who's not. But all I can do is go by the facts which say he never tested positive.

I never said he was guilty - personally, I'm still going with 'undecided' until more evidence emerges. There's a good case that can be made either way. I used to be a huge cycling fan (even before Lance - I got hooked when Lemond was winning it), and once even spent two weeks following Le Tour around France, but the doping was and is just rampant, and that has turned me off. It'd be sad for all the cancer patients looking toward him for hope if he was proven to be a fraud, but if that's what the facts say, then you can't deny the truth. At this point, I just don't claim to know with certainty.

[MattFancy]

I never said he was guilty - personally, I'm still going with 'undecided' until more evidence emerges. There's a good case that can be made either way. I used to be a huge cycling fan (even before Lance - I got hooked when Lemond was winning it), and once even spent two weeks following Le Tour around France, but the doping was and is just rampant, and that has turned me off. It'd be sad for all the cancer patients looking toward him for hope if he was proven to be a fraud, but if that's what the facts say, then you can't deny the truth. At this point, I just don't claim to know with certainty.

Oh if he definitely cheated then he deserves to be villafied. But you're right, we don't really know enough I guess. The things we do know say he never tested positive, so its hard to say otherwise right now.

[Larry]

Oh if he definitely cheated then he deserves to be villafied. But you're right, we don't really know enough I guess. The things we do know say he never tested positive, so its hard to say otherwise right now.

That's a big part of my position.

When you look at the things that we know, the score comes up

Lance Armstrong: 400
His accusers: 0

[Spaceman Spiff]

A few things here...

Passing tests doesn't mean a thing, and anyone who thinks so is completely ignorant. PED use is a giant cat and mouse game. How many tests did Marion Jones, for example, pass in her career? Victor Conte made a ton of money making PED's for athletes that couldn't be traced in a test.

Where there's smoke, there's 99% chance of a fire when it comes to doping, PEDs, steroids, whatever. The only person I can think off the top of my head that got a positive test reversed is Ryan Braun, only cause the test collector totally botched the procedure on how to transport the urine sample. Other than that, I can't think of one athlete who has had rumors swirl around them that they used PED's and have those rumors proved false.

Lance Armstrong giving up this fight is a way to get the hounds off his case without ever having to come out and admit that he did it. It's disappointing to some but at least he helped raise millions for cancer research, this is true and that can't be taken away. But when you realize that this guy probably cheated, and raised all of that money due to his cheating and gaining a high profile...it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Can't take him seriously anymore.

I think cycling has to be the most corrupt sport of them all when it comes to PEDs...baseball is up there, but it seems like a lot of Tour de France champs are busted for PED use. So if you're to assume that a lot of them already are, then one could argue that Lance is the best cheater in a pack full of cheaters. The playing field is level, it just matters who can get the best PED.

[MattFancy]

Spaceman I see your point, but as often as he was tested, I just think its tough to think otherwise.

[AsburySkinsFan]

A few things here...

Marion Jones failed a drug test....Lance never has 400-0. Not a single positive, not a single false positive, not a single one over-turned because of mishandling....zero.

You have to make the case that he is the best and most consistent cheater (even with constantly changing tests) who never got caught, or he's innocent. One assumes conspiracy and guilt while seeing the absence of evidence of cheating as evidence of cheating, the other sees the facts as presented.

[Special K]

(And I really love the people in the thread who seem to be certain that they do know.)

Well, when you personally know people who've actually raced with him, and have no agenda against him, and have told you they cheated with him, I'm going to believe them over so many Americans who want to believe this guy over so many of his teammates who've damned him.

Of course what I say is hearsay when I say it to you, but it's pretty solid evidence to me, personally.

When you've got multiple athletes who've NEVER failed a drug test, but were still banned from sports for doping (e.g. Marion Jones due to her own admission), not failing a drug test is not proof of anything.

FYI, USADA IS releasing it's case against Armstrong. It will be interesting to see what people say after that comes out. Although I suspect no one will still want to believe their hero deftly cheated his way to his titles...

Not to take away everything he's done for cancer research. More power to him for that. But, yeah, his doping has been the worst kept secret in the Olympic community for years.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Marion Jones failed a drug test....Lance never has 400-0. Not a single positive, not a single false positive, not a single one over-turned because of mishandling....zero.

You have to make the case that he is the best and most consistent cheater (even with constantly changing tests) who never got caught, or he's innocent. One assumes conspiracy and guilt while seeing the absence of evidence of cheating as evidence of cheating, the other sees the facts as presented.

I don't think she did... Wiki says she failed her A test but her B test came up negative.

Jones had never failed a drug test using the then-existing testing procedures, and insufficient evidence was found to bring charges regarding other untested performance enhancing drugs.
[edit]2006 EPO tests
The Washington Post, citing unidentified sources with knowledge of drug results from the USA Track and Field Championships in Indianapolis, IN, reported that on June 23, 2006, an "A" sample of Marion Jones' urine tested positive for Erythropoietin (EPO), a banned performance-enhancer. Jones withdrew from the Weltklasse Golden League meet in Switzerland, citing "personal reasons", and once more denied using performance-enhancing drugs. She retained lawyer Howard Jacobs, who has represented many athletes in doping cases, including Tim Montgomery and cyclist Floyd Landis. On September 6, 2006, Jones' lawyers announced that her "B" sample had tested negative, which cleared her from the doping allegations.

She admitted to lying to federal agents. She lied to grand juries.

If you think he's innocent, that's fine. I don't know how you can't be a little suspicious when you take into consideration that there are several ways to beat drug tests. Bonds never tested positive but I can't believe anyone thinks he's totally innocent.

[Hooper]

Screenwriter friend of mine spent two years researching and writing a script based on Lance's book. Spent a ton of time with Lance. Liked him.

Also said there was no way he didn't take drugs. That everybody in the sport did. It was as common and necessary as a helmet.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Screenwriter friend of mine spent two years researching and writing a script based on Lance's book. Spent a ton of time with Lance. Liked him.
Also said there was no way he didn't take drugs. That everybody in the sport did. It was as common and necessary as a helmet.

Well, now that you've told me that your anonymous friend told you that Lance must have taken drugs I guess that settles it.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Marion Jones failed a drug test....Lance never has 400-0. Not a single positive, not a single false positive, not a single one over-turned because of mishandling....zero.

You have to make the case that he is the best and most consistent cheater (even with constantly changing tests) who never got caught, or he's innocent. One assumes conspiracy and guilt while seeing the absence of evidence of cheating as evidence of cheating, the other sees the facts as presented.

Lance failed a drug test in 1999.

He was allowed to continue racing tho.

[Titaw]

In the grand scheme of things stripping him of his 7 titles does nothing. He has already made more money than most of us will ever make in our lifetimes. It doesn't matter, he'll still be Lance Armstrong the 7 time Tour winner that probably used PEDs when 99% of cyclists used PEDs.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Lance failed a drug test in 1999.

He was allowed to continue racing tho.

That was before his cancer right?

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

That was before his cancer right?

1999 was the year he first won the TDF

I remember it because the year before, Team Festina got-got for blood doping. They dominated the early few stages at the tour and then someone got caught throwing out the tampered blood and all hell broke lose. The American media tried to dismiss the failed test in 1999 and called it the "clean tour" because Lance won.