CNN: Actually, that's not in the Bible

[AsburySkinsFan]

You dont see an issue with his statement? Belittling Christians who dare to study the bible together and discuss it without someone who went to seminary? And I may be in the minority, but I dont assume a Doctor is right because they have a PhD, I do my own research to supplement what they tell me.

I never belittled anyone, but there is today in American churches by in large a large amount of Biblical illiteracy and small groups can be good, but there is a tendency to approach the Bible as abstract art open to anyone's interpretation and all interpretations are valid, but such is not the case. It is a new phenomenon that people in the church would act as individualized experts. And no one is suggesting that just because someone has a degree makes them right, but if someone has a PhD I tend to listen more to the PhD than to an average lay-person who hasn't had the same experience. Feel free to call me elitist, but it seems to me that in our culture we thought that we rejected authority, but instead we just annointed ourselves as the authority.

---------- Post added November-28th-2012 at 12:16 PM ----------

What i'm finding amusing now is that I bumped a thread for a post rather than stat a new thread, noted it was a bump, and then a number of posts follow that aren't responses (or take any awareness) to what I posted. Instead, it's fight/defend the OP like nothing's happened.

There's a Jim Morrison song floating through my head...

I never got that far into the thread, I just thought it was a new one.

[Jumbo]

I never got that far into the thread, I just thought it was a new one.

Regularly posting in the tailgate over time can be like combat. Sometimes you just start shooting at anything that moves "out there", and other times you get moments of freezing up where you can't respond.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Regularly posting in the tailgate over time can be like combat. Sometimes you just start shooting at anything that moves "out there", and other times you get moments of freezing up where you can't respond.

I was gonna say that I am quick on the trigger, but I didn't want the "Taken Out of Context" thread to get bumped.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Who actually looks at the date of the original post though?

[AsburySkinsFan]

Who actually looks at the date of the original post though?

Apparently mods....and I guess they expect us to do the same. Silly mods.

[Jumbo]

Who actually looks at the date of the original post though?

I, and some others, do, before clicking on a thread I think I'm seeing for the first time.

I call it a "learned behavior" from the times I've been fooled.

Some organisms can learn---often slowly in my case.

But you could have added"who reads the last post in a thread before 'going'" as in this case the first line in that posts tells you it's a bump.

That's another thing I regularly do if bumping a thread. I recommend it as a potentially helpful action.

[Reign]

There's a Jim Morrison song floating through my head...

Awwww, before Jumbo slips into unconciousness, he'd like to have another kiss...

That's so sweet.

[gortiz]

<Note old thread being bumped>

Long story, but I was just talking "haters" in PM re: the stadium, and up came some serious "Biblical hating" references--wowsa!

Psalm 139:22

(note Wesley's and Matthew Hardy's comments towards bottom--those guys were serious players )

http://bible.cc/psalms/139-22.htm

Open up your your heart and let the hate out! - David chappelle

I like this one ... hate them with perfect hatred: Wft? Perfect, that's deep.

[MisterPinstripe]

I never belittled anyone, but there is today in American churches by in large a large amount of Biblical illiteracy and small groups can be good, but there is a tendency to approach the Bible as abstract art open to anyone's interpretation and all interpretations are valid, but such is not the case. It is a new phenomenon that people in the church would act as individualized experts. And no one is suggesting that just because someone has a degree makes them right, but if someone has a PhD I tend to listen more to the PhD than to an average lay-person who hasn't had the same experience. Feel free to call me elitist, but it seems to me that in our culture we thought that we rejected authority, but instead we just annointed ourselves as the authority.

I wasnt saying you were belittling anyone, but rather that guy. Thats pretty much the exact type of mindset that started the reformation. Only experts who have studied in schools should be doing this, people who havent gone to seminary dont know what they are doing. Sure, I may pay more attention to someone who has a PHD, but they have to earn my respect first. In my time in the church I have come across many people who are very arrogant, most of the time its those who have gone to seminary. But of course, not all. And I have met many people who have not who have just as much knowledge and are humble. They study and read and learn everything they can about the bible because they love the Lord and want to know him better.

I am not knocking seminary, as I think it can be very good. My point is just because someone didnt go to seminary, doesnt mean they dont know as much or even more then someone who did. Its not about rejecting authority. You dont get my respect for going to seminary and getting a degree. You get my respect by showing a love for the Lord, which is usually pretty obvious, whether you went to seminary or studied on your own time.

[Jumbo]

Awwww, before Jumbo slips into unconciousness, he'd like to have another kiss...

That's so sweet.

It was "when you're a stranger"

---------- Post added November-28th-2012 at 11:14 AM ----------

Open up your your heart and let the hate out! - David chappelle

I like this one ... hate them with perfect hatred: Wft? Perfect, that's deep.

May good fortune find you for actually responding to my post

I won't forget.

[JMS]

Memorizing every word as a requirement would take this tough club up to the L. Ron Hubbard levels.
You start a noob: Only the 10 commandments and a prayer to eat.
work your way up by chapter/verse.

Only which ten commandments do you use? The bible lists two different sets of commandments Exodus and Deuteronomy..

---------- Post added November-28th-2012 at 03:53 PM ----------

Really? I honestly never heard the Prodigal Son referenced that way. The story is about forgiving people who have messed up and are sorry and that they deserve forgiveness and love along with those who never strayed. Even if it seems like they shouldn't deserve it and only those who "behave" should be rewarded.

The prodigal son from Luke 15:17-20, is about forgiveness.

I was thinking about the Parable of the Talents... Luke 19:11-27 or Matthew 25:14-30

Master or King gives out investment capital. Those who invested and prospered are praised... The guy who burried his investment capital in order to ensure he returned every dime he borrowed is called wicked....

[AsburySkinsFan]

Only which ten commandments do you use? The bible lists two different sets of commandments Exodus and Deuteronomy..

Ahhh and they are soooooo truamatically different from each other it's amazing how we can keep these drastically different lists secret from all the ignorant lemmings in our churches.

And God spoke all these words:

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

“You shall have no other gods before me.

“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

“You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

“Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

“You shall not murder.

“You shall not commit adultery.

“You shall not steal.

“You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

“You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” (Exodus 20:1-17)

Hold on to your socks, 'cause your mind is about to be blown!

The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. (At that time I stood between the Lord and you to declare to you the word of the Lord, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

“You shall have no other gods before me.

“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand
generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

“You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

“Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

“Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

“You shall not murder.

“You shall not commit adultery.

“You shall not steal.

“You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

“You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor's house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” (Deuteronomy 5:4-21)

[JMS]

"THE BIBLE SAYS THERE ARE FIVE GODS AND TO HATE YOUR NEIGHBOR".

The bible does say there is only one God... but it also says there is more than one God.

Exodus 18:11
Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods.

Exodus 20:3, 5
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.

Exodus 23:13-32
Make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth. (v.13)
Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images. (v.24)

Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. (v.32)

Deuteronomy 5:7
Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

Deuteronomy 6:14-15
Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you)


Joshua 24:2-14
They served other gods. (v.2)
Fear the Lord ... and put away the gods which your fathers served. (v.14)


1 Samuel 28:13
And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

1 Chronicles 16:25
The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods.

Psalm 82:1-6
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judgeth among the gods. (v.1)

Psalm 86:8
Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord.

Psalm 96:4
For the Lord ... is to be feared above all gods.

Psalm 97:7
Worship him, all ye gods.

Psalm 135:5
Our Lord is above all gods.

Psalm 136:2
O give thanks unto the God of gods.


The early Jews were believed to be polytheistic prior to the first Diaspora. Part of the whole point of the story of Abraham is God revealing Himself as the One

[AsburySkinsFan]

I was thinking about the Parable of the Talents... Luke 19:11-27 or Matthew 25:14-30

Master or King gives out investment capital. Those who invested and prospered are praised... The guy who burried his investment capital in order to ensure he returned every dime he borrowed is called wicked....

You do know that the parable isn't an economic class right?

[JMS]

Ahhh and they are soooooo truamatically different from each other it's amazing how we can keep these drastically different lists secret from all the ignorant lemmings in our churches.


Hold on to your socks, 'cause your mind is about to be blown!

That is one difference between Catholics, Protestants and Jews who all observe the ten commandments... They just list them in different order and they subscribe to different verbage.
And for a religion such as Christianity where people historically have been executed and wars have been fought over the smallest discrepencies of belief I was just saying it's noteable...

Here is a breakdown by commandment and religion..
http://www.biblicalheritage.org/bibl...mmandments.htm

---------- Post added November-28th-2012 at 04:23 PM ----------

You do know that the parable isn't an economic class right?

I brought up the parable of the Talents told by Jesus because I always thought it was interesting. It is a parable which I took to support the phrase... ":god helps those who help themselves" as listed in the original post. The guys who prospered are praised the guy who broke even and lost nothing is called wicked.. He didn't loose anything, but is still called wicked for not investing his money.

---------- Post added November-28th-2012 at 04:46 PM ----------

You don't see an issue with his statement? Belittling Christians who dare to study the bible together and discuss it without someone who went to seminary?
And I may be in the minority, but I don't assume a Doctor is right because they have a PhD, I do my own research to supplement what they tell me.

I think if you study the bible as a Christian or as an exercise of faith you ultimately bring the baggage of your faith with you to your studies. This means your perspective and scholarship are really tainted and beholding to your faith. Your studies can become a self perpetuating exercise of your faith, and not really an expansion of your knowledge. The exercise is myopically focused on the narrow tenents of your beliefs and thus not all that informative to folks who disagree with you.

I think the usefulness of such a degree spans the spectrum when removed from your sect or religion. At the low end of the scale we have entire schools of Christian Apology which basically make things up and give themselves the trappings of scholarship to pursue their own agenda... Use of scholarship real or invented to defend Christianity from anyone who would object to it..
I find them intellectually dishonest, because there scholarship and learning and facts are all predetermined to support their conclusion. Anything which challenges their dogmatism is disgarded regardless of the validity of the data.

At the high end of scholarship done on the bible I would list Ninian Smart, a pioneer in the field of secular religious studies. A religious person who took an honest historical perspective on his scholarship and let the chips fall where they may... I find the latter interesting because history can be debated, dissected, disproved, and our understanding can be enhanced on all of these exercises.. A Religious perspective, really can't be. Religion is a matter of faith after all and any historical proof which seems initially to disprove some tenant of that faith ultimately can be seen as an attack on that faith and thus for religious folks must be suppressed.

---------- Post added November-28th-2012 at 04:51 PM ----------

I wasnt saying you were belittling anyone, but rather that guy. Thats pretty much the exact type of mindset that started the reformation. Only experts who have studied in schools should be doing this, people who havent gone to seminary dont know what they are doing. Sure, I may pay more attention to someone who has a PHD, but they have to earn my respect first. In my time in the church I have come across many people who are very arrogant, most of the time its those who have gone to seminary. But of course, not all. And I have met many people who have not who have just as much knowledge and are humble. They study and read and learn everything they can about the bible because they love the Lord and want to know him better.

I am not knocking seminary, as I think it can be very good. My point is just because someone didnt go to seminary, doesnt mean they dont know as much or even more then someone who did. Its not about rejecting authority. You dont get my respect for going to seminary and getting a degree. You get my respect by showing a love for the Lord, which is usually pretty obvious, whether you went to seminary or studied on your own time.

Christians don't agree on much and never have. Phd's grounded in your faith thus are achievements in your disipline to toe the party line, to appreciate and maintain the order of how things are. Phd's or schalarship in theology are different. They are like having a degree in history. It gives you a breadth of scope in order to understand why things are and how they were before.