Maryland Basketball (some football) recruiting news (Shaq, Layman Commits!)

[big#44]

Is there any thought that the ACC may boot Maryland out for next year now? I'm sure everyone would be happier that way.

The ACC is gonna fight tooth and nail to get Maryland to stay as long as required and pay the exit fee. If the ACC wins the court case and Maryland has to pay that pretty much solidifies that no other schools will be leaving in the near future. If Maryland wins the case and doesn't have to pay the 50 mil, then things could get interesting. The ACC is trying to be a big tough bully right now so that other teams don't consider leaving. If it were me, I'd say Maryland could peace out yesterday.


On a side note, I thought this was funny.

Report: B1G to subsidize Maryland's travel

The Baltimore Sun reported Friday night that Maryland will receive a major subsidy from the Big Ten to cover its increased travel costs for its new league. Like, very major -- $20-$30 million.

From the report:
The subsidy underscores how much the Big Ten coveted Maryland and the accompanying Baltimore-Washington television market. Maryland had some leverage in the talks because -- unlike some schools exploring jumping conferences -- it was not coming from a league, the ACC, that appears in imminent danger of collapse. It was not clear when the subsidy is to be received and whether it will be a lump sum or series of payments.

The Sun also reports that Maryland's travel budget will double from about $3 million in 2012-13 to about $6 million when it joins the Big Ten in 2014.

The big 10 really wants that TV market.

[Buford]

If Maryland gets out paying less, watch out.....because that's what the other schools leaving will demand quickly.

[mjah]

So the idea that Notre Dame simply joined the ACC for a "patsy" in all sports besides football is nothing but blasphemy.

Certainly Notre Dame wasn't merely looking for patsy opponents. But they weren't exactly marrying their top choice in ladies, either.

Notre Dame left the Big East because the Big East, by virtue of being mid-implosion, was no longer a viable place for them to park their low-revenue to non-revenue sports. The Big 10 wouldn't offer them the option of partial membership, and suddenly the ACC would. It was very valuable to Notre Dame to park their non-football sports in some major conference, and there was really only one major conference to choose once their existing first choice teetered on the brink of terminal instability. Match made, a shotgun was fetched and the modest ceremony was enjoyed by all.

But the real issue to all of this is how does it help Maryland? Everyone keeps citing that the ACC was inferior in every way to the Big 10. I'll go ahead and go with this and agree just for fun. Maryland was weak in that conference, how do they expect to fair in a far superior conference? Here are their conference championships in the big 3 sports

Baseball - ZERO
Basketball - 3
Football - I'll go with 5 or 6 in the modern era. ZERO in the Modern ACC.

Well daggummit, I was fine up to this point, but then you had to go completely off the rails.

First, baseball frankly doesn't matter much at all. Baseball had a very tiny impact on the conference decision, if any at all. So I'll just go ahead and assume that you were listing sports alphabetically and that's why baseball is listed first. Otherwise I'd be forced to conclude that you obviously just wanted to list that ZERO above all else. (Edit: I see that you corrected the error on this one. Has the Big 10 had a CWS champ since the 1960s?)

More importantly, though: You made all that noise about the "blasphemy" of suggesting that Notre Dame joined the ACC to find easy opposition, pointing out that the competition will in fact be pretty stiff. Now, after all that, you argue against Maryland's wisdom in joining the Big 10 because of ... drum roll ... tougher opposition?

Honestly, dude. When you switch angles on the same issue just because it suits you temporarily, you should spread the two angles farther apart so nobody remembers what you said in the previous paragraph.

If you don't know why Maryland jumped, how it helps them, and why it had nothing to do with any notion of keeping the competitive bar set in the same position, then you just haven't been paying any attention at all.

[pjfootballer]

lol it doesnt matter if it's a conference game or not. When FSU plays ND that is an OOC game that improves their SOS. There's no arguing around that. Clemson, FSU, MIami, and VT are benefiting huge from this move as at least one or two of them will be playing Notre Dame every season.

And ND ONLY agreed to the change to give it's other sports an easy schedule??? RIIIGGHHHTTT. That statement right there tells me you have no idea why ND left the Big East to join the ACC. We know that that statement is not true for basketball, but go ahead and take a look at the baseball standings as well. Football is by far the ACC's weakest sport and they're improving. The ACC is solid in basketball and baseball and most other minor sports. So the idea that Notre Dame simply joined the ACC for a "patsy" in all sports besides football is nothing but blasphemy.

But the real issue to all of this is how does it help Maryland? Everyone keeps citing that the ACC was inferior in every way to the Big 10. I'll go ahead and go with this and agree just for fun. Maryland was weak in that conference, how do they expect to fair in a far superior conference? Here are their conference championships in the big 3 sports

Baseball - none since the 70's
Basketball - 3
Football - I'll go with 5 or 6 in the modern era. ZERO in the Modern ACC.

You misinterpreted what I said. That is my fault. I'm not saying ND is looking for "Patsy" teams to play. I've been an ACC fan since 1980 in all sports. What I meant to say when I used the word "Patsy" is, ND was looking for a conference like the BE and ACC that would take the rest of their teams, because they know the Big10 would never take the other ND sports unless football was included. Meaning, the Big10 doesn't need the ND name to be a conference powerhouse, but the BE did and the ACC does.

The ACC outside of the BE has had the strongest basketball conference in the nation and I'm well aware that they are one of the best soccer (mens and womens) and baseball conferences in the nation. ND will not be getting off easy in other sports.

And playing in the Big10 will force MD to get better in football, much like it forced Northwestern, who was the Vanderbilt of the conference to get better and actually play a couple of Rose Bowls. Hell, even Vandy has had to get better lately. It might take MD a while, but I think they can do it. I'm not saying they can compete for a national title in football, but there is no reason they can't go 8-4 or 9-3 at some point and get a good bowl out of it. Kind of like, you know, how they do in the ACC now.

[big#44]

Honestly, dude. When you switch angles on the same issue just because it suits you temporarily, you should spread the two angles farther apart so nobody remembers what you said in the previous paragraph.

If you don't know why Maryland jumped, how it helps them, and why it had nothing to do with any notion of keeping the competitive bar set in the same position, then you just haven't been paying any attention at all.

On baseball: no it doesn't hold much weight when it comes to conference alignment, but when it comes to having a good well rounded athletic program it sure as hell matters. It's one of the 3 major sports. College baseball fans fall into two categories. Die hards who love following school athletics, and fans of schools who have a good baseball team. Considering Maryland lost something like 40 something games in a row to FSU before last week, I'm not surprised that their aren't more of the latter.

It seems you missed the point almost entirely. Notre Dame >>>>>> Maryland. The same argument doesn't apply for both. It's one thing if your switching conferences for stronger competition when you are already pretty good in athletics (Notre Dame). But when your teams have been consistently mediocre since the 60's (Maryland) the argument that they're jumping to another conference for stiffer competition doesn't make sense. Schools trade up for stiffer competition when they're good or on the rise to challenge themselves and in the case of college football increase their strength of schedule. Think West Virginia or Louisville. On the rise and trying to become legitimate.

I know exactly why Maryland jumped and why it helps them, and it has nothing to do with being in a better athletic conference like Maryland fans would have you believe. The choice for Maryland was this. Stay put and end up losing most of their athletics all together (probably, eventually) or switch to a new conference and be able to afford to keep all their sports teams while losing even more then they already were. Like the saying goes 50% of somethin is better then 100% of nothing.

---------- Post added March-18th-2013 at 08:37 PM ----------

You misinterpreted what I said. That is my fault. I'm not saying ND is looking for "Patsy" teams to play. I've been an ACC fan since 1980 in all sports. What I meant to say when I used the word "Patsy" is, ND was looking for a conference like the BE and ACC that would take the rest of their teams, because they know the Big10 would never take the other ND sports unless football was included. Meaning, the Big10 doesn't need the ND name to be a conference powerhouse, but the BE did and the ACC does.

The ACC outside of the BE has had the strongest basketball conference in the nation and I'm well aware that they are one of the best soccer (mens and womens) and baseball conferences in the nation. ND will not be getting off easy in other sports.

And playing in the Big10 will force MD to get better in football, much like it forced Northwestern, who was the Vanderbilt of the conference to get better and actually play a couple of Rose Bowls. Hell, even Vandy has had to get better lately. It might take MD a while, but I think they can do it. I'm not saying they can compete for a national title in football, but there is no reason they can't go 8-4 or 9-3 at some point and get a good bowl out of it. Kind of like, you know, how they do in the ACC now.

Thanks for the clear up, and your'e right for the most part. You're the first person I've seen with realistic expectations. Many MD fans are clamoring that the move will bring in recruiting and make them a perennial top 25 football school with national championships on the way due to having a better strength of schedule. I could see Maryland getting to a bowl here and there, and maybe winning the Big10 within the next 5-10 years.

[mjah]

On baseball: no it doesn't hold much weight when it comes to conference alignment, but when it comes to having a good well rounded athletic program it sure as hell matters. It's one of the 3 major sports.

Sorry man, but there are only two major national college sports. Baseball is in any real sense a regional sport despite being played across the country. Lacrosse and women's basketball are other, smaller examples of national-yet-really-regional sports. Baseball is the biggest non-revenue sport around; hardly major. Living where you do means you see baseball as "major" but your perspective is very, very skewed. No two ways about that.

I have a cousin in Atlanta who was once similarly challenged, until he traveled around the country a bit and had his eyes opened. Of course, he was 17 years old at the time...

College baseball fans fall into two categories. Die hards who love following school athletics, and fans of schools who have a good baseball team.

Yes, and then you have the majority of college sports fans who don't care about college baseball much at all.

On a national level you have football, basketball, a great big gap, and then different shades of everything else. They are so far out ahead of baseball... trying to lump the three together and call all three "major" is a joke.

It seems you missed the point almost entirely. Notre Dame >>>>>> Maryland. The same argument doesn't apply for both.

No, I didn't miss your point at all. I first read your point exactly the way you've described it above. But then I gave you the benefit of the doubt, imagining that you wouldn't be so ridiculous as to call a conditional, school-specific argument "blasphemy." I assumed you must have a better point to make, which would be about the principle of pretending schools switch conferences simply to seek different levels of competition. And I agreed fully with that. Pretending that a school jumps conferences just to seek harder or easier competition is foolish, as you reiterate below.

But after what you've written above, I guess you weren't arguing principle after all. In which case, who cares.

This cracks me up:

But the real issue to all of this is how does it help Maryland?

I know exactly why Maryland jumped and why it helps them

LOL! Apparently you learned a lot in the 5.5 hours between those two posts!

But at least now you're splitting the double-talk across two different times of day. Next up: splitting them across two different threads and hoping nobody will catch that.

it has nothing to do with being in a better athletic conference like Maryland fans would have you believe.

Well, obviously it IS about being in a better conference. The Big 10 objectively is a better conference in many ways, and a better fit for what Maryland needs and offers. But what do YOU mean by "better?" That's kind of crucial and you left it out.

Financial: Yes, absolutely better.

Conference stability: Yes, as an issue of timing -- not as an issue of go vs. never go. Other schools will go. Wait and see.

"Better" conference in terms of competition: NO, not a reason for the switch.

The choice for Maryland was this. Stay put and end up losing most of their athletics all together (probably, eventually)

Untrue. Another incorrect presumption, and a flatly ridiculous one by the way.

or switch to a new conference and be able to afford to keep all their sports teams while losing even more then they already were.

In football that would hardly be possible, so you're wrong on that count.

In basketball, the Big 10 is no step up from the ACC -- and you pointed out the ACC's basketball strength in a previous post so don't even try the double-talk trick again.

That covers major sports. That's the list.

The rest of the sports... well, you just admitted that the funding for them will be notably better, and we agree that funding certainly was a major reason to trade up to the Big 10. And even the biggest minor sport in the Big 10, baseball, will be blessedly devoid of Clemson and FSU.

So are there some other hidden regional juggernauts in the Big 10 that somehow make your overall point valid? We all know the Big 10 has strong athletics in a lot of areas, but across which broad swath of athletics will Maryland find this systemic increase in losses you're talking about? Women's basketball? Soccer? Swimming and diving? Competitive cheerleading, perhaps? Will the Big 10 be elevating Quidditch to funded status, subjecting all conference rivals including Maryland to the relentless fury of the dominant Michigan State sweepers?

Many MD fans are clamoring that the move will bring in recruiting and make them a perennial top 25 football school with national championships on the way due to having a better strength of schedule.

Names please. Who is saying perennial top 25 and national championships in football? I have heard nobody at all say that.

Quotes like that are a big part of the reason why you're coming off as clown shoes, by the way.

I could see Maryland getting to a bowl here and there, and maybe winning the Big10 within the next 5-10 years.

An occasional bowl, yes. Just like they do now. Beyond that, not much. I'd be completely stunned if Maryland won the Big 10 any time in the next 10-15 years, honestly.

Just learn more about college sports before you say things about it.

Normally I ignore it when people clearly don't know what they're talking about, but I have a pet peeve about people who talk out of both sides of their mouth and expect the ES readership to be sufficiently doltish to fall for it. It's disrespectful to everyone in the thread.

[big#44]

sigh, nevermind

[pjfootballer]

Thanks for the clear up, and your'e right for the most part. You're the first person I've seen with realistic expectations. Many MD fans are clamoring that the move will bring in recruiting and make them a perennial top 25 football school with national championships on the way due to having a better strength of schedule. I could see Maryland getting to a bowl here and there, and maybe winning the Big10 within the next 5-10 years.

Oh, I'm very realistic. Like I said, been a MD fan and have been watching them since 1980. I know where their bread is buttered and that is in basketball. They been hit or miss in football (mostly miss) since I've been watching them, but I'm hoping going to a better football conference, that will help them up their game some. I very well know that I'll never see a national champion from MD in football as long as I live, but I'd be satisfied with competing to get to a bowl every year. Remember, lower seeded teams in football power conferences are more attractive then non football power conferences. So if MD finishes 7-5 in the Big 10, they can still go to a better bowl then if they were in the ACC at 7-5.

I'm excited about the move, even though I'm sad on the one hand that we are leaving. Funny that I live in South Carolina and you'd think I'd see them on TV all the time, but they are so UNC, NCState and Duke around here, that I think I'll see them more on TV with the Big 10 network then I ever did around here. I was thinking about the football team and with the style of offense we run with the read option and with the team speed they have, if they continue getting those types of players, 7-8 wins a year could be realistic.

---------- Post added March-19th-2013 at 08:39 AM ----------

MD mens and womens soccer will be able to dominate the Big10, although Indiana usually has a good mens soccer team. Baseball and softball, MD stinks. Women's basketball, the women should dominate. I'm not sure I can think of a good B10 women's basketball team at the moment. Maybe Rutgers when they join also. I don't know anything about volleyball and other indoor sports like gymnastics. I think MD mens's basketball will be in the upper half of the league once Turgeon finishes rebuilding the team. He's been great a recruiting so far and I think it's just a matter of the youngsters to learn how to win.

[pjfootballer]

Terps beat Niagra. Get Denver next.

[Redskin4ever]

I'm excited about the move, even though I'm sad on the one hand that we are leaving. Funny that I live in South Carolina and you'd think I'd see them on TV all the time, but they are so UNC, NCState and Duke around here, that I think I'll see them more on TV with the Big 10 network then I ever did around here.

It's funny because I live in NC, and I know I will get to see MD more on TV when they move to the Big 10. On the downside though, no more going to away games at any of the NC schools, or ACC tournaments.

[Kosher Ham]

Len just is irrelevant far too often.

It's frustrating to watch. He even had the announcers calling him out yesterday. He must have missed 4-5 two foot shots in the first half alone over a guy thats 6-6.

Terrible.

[pjfootballer]

We had to go small. Only way to stop them. They were too fast and too quick. Great strategy by Turgeon. Now we await Bama or Stanford.

[jobaga]

Len just is irrelevant far too often.

It's frustrating to watch. He even had the announcers calling him out yesterday. He must have missed 4-5 two foot shots in the first half alone over a guy thats 6-6.

Terrible.

I think it will be better for everyone if he goes pro next year

[abdcskins]

I watched the entire game yesterday. We were down 9 with 8:00 and went on a nice run. Started with a flagrant foul on Denver. They helped by missing the front end of two one and ones. Then Dez Wells took over. Layman hit a lucky bank 3 pointer to seal it essentially.

Anyone notice how much faster Peshon Howard is? I'm telling you his knee is 100% now. He had a great hustle play that aided the run. Alabama or Stanford up next, two much tougher opponents.

[pjfootballer]

Tough game coming up against Alabama on the road because we don't play well on the road. If this were a home game or neutral site game I think we'd be OK.