NFL teams with indoor practice facilities averaged 4 more wins in 2010

[NLC1054]

It'd be a better intentioned thread if it hadn't already been reported a bazillion times since the season ended that the Redskins were looking to potentially move Redskins Park and build an indoor facility, and if it hadn't been pointed out that Dan Snyder asked his coaches about it and they turned him down, and that they're going to build a practice bubble until then, which Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen have said repeatedly.

But of course, the OP keeps ignoring those repeatedly stated points because he spent what seems like hours of research to tear down Dan Snyder on a message board Dan will never see.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

It'd be a better intentioned thread if it hadn't already been reported a bazillion times since the season ended that the Redskins were looking to potentially move Redskins Park and build an indoor facility, and if it hadn't been pointed out that Dan Snyder asked his coaches about it and they turned him down, and that they're going to build a practice bubble until then, which Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen have said repeatedly.

But of course, the OP keeps ignoring those repeatedly stated points because he spent what seems like hours of research to tear down Dan Snyder on a message board Dan will never see.

Did I mention something about a repeated pattern bordering on a vendetta?

Hail.

[SkinsHokieFan]

People are missing the point.

All things being equal, teams with indoor facilities have the advantage.

NOT having one is proving to be a hindrance in competing. You still need a talented roster and good coaching as well.

[Crazy Levi]

People are missing the point.

All things being equal, teams with indoor facilities have the advantage.

NOT having one is proving to be a hindrance in competing. You still need a talented roster and good coaching as well.

Yep. Would love to see a state of the art practice field built for the Skins. Whatever has to happen to make that happen...I hope it happens.

[NLC1054]

People are missing the point.

All things being equal, teams with indoor facilities have the advantage.

NOT having one is proving to be a hindrance in competing. You still need a talented roster and good coaching as well.

Okay. It's proving to be a hindrance.

This team in particular is looking into building a world class facility, and the only reason we haven't had one is because the coaches who have been here in the past either didn't ask for one, or when they were asked, said they didn't want one. This coaching staff and front office has asked for one, therefore we are probably going to get one.

The Redskins are now looking to move their facility to a better area in which they could build a world class training facility. They can not simply build one overnight, so until they can, they are building a practice bubble, not to be there forever, but just to me a temporary solution until they can move to a more permanent solution.

There. End of convo.

[MattFancy]

People are missing the point.

All things being equal, teams with indoor facilities have the advantage.

NOT having one is proving to be a hindrance in competing. You still need a talented roster and good coaching as well.

I think we all agree that we should have one. The disagreement seems to be that building one will suddenly make us a better team. Will it help? Sure. More practice isn't a bad thing. But look at the teams that have been winning the last decade, they have have franchise QBs and very good HCs. I don't look at the Colts and say, "they're so good because they have an indoor practice facility". I look at them and say, "Manning is great and they have a good FO and coaching staff."

[tshile]

i don't know. manning practicing in the rain and snow? probably just below average qb then.

[Popeman38]

People are missing the point.

All things being equal, teams with indoor facilities have the advantage.

NOT having one is proving to be a hindrance in competing. You still need a talented roster and good coaching as well.

Franchise QBs.

You can't have "all things being equal" if you have the elite teams with franchise QBs and the Skins playing Grossman, Beck, McNabb (Washington version), JC......all the way back.........Rypien. You just can't do it.

2010 - Aaron Rodgers
2009 - Drew Brees
2008 - Ben Rothlisberger
2007 - Eli Manning
2006 - Peyton Manning
2005 - Ben Rothlisberger
2004 - Tom Brady
2003 - Tom Brady
2002 - Brad Johnson
2001 - Tom Brady
2000 - Trent Dilfer

82% of the SB listed were won by teams with a FRANCHISE QB. THAT, and that alone, is what those teams have in common. It is ludicrous to look at data and state that the deciding factor is a ****ing indoor facility. It doesn't make sense, unless you want it to.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Franchise QBs.

You can't have "all things being equal" if you have the elite teams with franchise QBs and the Skins playing Grossman, Beck, McNabb (Washington version), JC......all the way back.........Rypien. You just can't do it.

2010 - Aaron Rodgers
2009 - Drew Brees
2008 - Ben Rothlisberger
2007 - Eli Manning
2006 - Peyton Manning
2005 - Ben Rothlisberger
2004 - Tom Brady
2003 - Tom Brady
2002 - Brad Johnson
2001 - Tom Brady
2000 - Trent Dilfer

82% of the SB listed were won by teams with a FRANCHISE QB. THAT, and that alone, is what those teams have in common. It is ludicrous to look at data and state that the deciding factor is a ****ing indoor facility. It doesn't make sense, unless you want it to.

Both are necessary but not sufficient elements.

What if we had Peyton Manning or Tom Brady but only 10 guys on offense. That's OK, right? Because, you know, we've got Manning / Brady. That's why teams win Super Bowls. The number of players on offense doesn't matter.

[Oldfan]

Franchise QBs.

You can't have "all things being equal" if you have the elite teams with franchise QBs and the Skins playing Grossman, Beck, McNabb (Washington version), JC......all the way back.........Rypien. You just can't do it.

2010 - Aaron Rodgers
2009 - Drew Brees
2008 - Ben Rothlisberger
2007 - Eli Manning
2006 - Peyton Manning
2005 - Ben Rothlisberger
2004 - Tom Brady
2003 - Tom Brady
2002 - Brad Johnson
2001 - Tom Brady
2000 - Trent Dilfer

82% of the SB listed were won by teams with a FRANCHISE QB. THAT, and that alone, is what those teams have in common. It is ludicrous to look at data and state that the deciding factor is a ****ing indoor facility. It doesn't make sense, unless you want it to.

Tom Brady and Marc Bulger were both drafted in the sixth round of the same year. They both have similar skillsets. Had fate ordained that Marc Bulger had gone to the Patriots, and Brady had followed Bulger's path, his name not Brady's would be showing up prominently on your list and Brady's would not.

[DieselPwr44]

Tom Brady and Marc Bulger were both drafted in the sixth round of the same year. They both have similar skillsets. Had fate ordained that Marc Bulger had gone to the Patriots, and Brady had followed Bulger's path, his name not Brady's would be showing up prominently on your list and Brady's would not.

You should make this your signature so that you don't have to type that nonsense in every thread that mentions the QB position.

Bulger had better offensive talent around him than Brady and never got near the results.

[HailGreen28]

Another great detailed OP, ASF. I dunno if Snyder, who is known for spending money on stuff like heated bleachers for the players back in 2000, is responsible for this one. But we sure could use a boost to get with this century, as far as practice facilities go.

Please ignore the butt-hurt yelps from the Snyder phone-slamming thread. I don't think anyone could argue that having a practice facility as good as others, when we're the most profitable team for quite some time, isn't a little odd. Aside from Gibbs, who MIGHT have been too oldschool. (Citation needed about opposition to the practice facility, anybody?), I can't see any other coach we've had saying "A state of the art indoor training facility? No, no. We can't let our players get sheltered...."

[sportjunkie07]

it is amazing that the redskins are the 4th most valuable franchise, even after near decades of mediocrity.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Another great detailed OP, ASF. I dunno if Snyder, who is known for spending money on stuff like heated bleachers for the players back in 2000, is responsible for this one. But we sure could use a boost to get with this century, as far as practice facilities go.

Please ignore the butt-hurt yelps from the Snyder phone-slamming thread. I don't think anyone could argue that having a practice facility as good as others, when we're the most profitable team for quite some time, is a little odd. Aside from Gibbs, who MIGHT have been too oldschool. (Citation needed about opposition to the practice facility, anybody?), I can't see any other coach we've had saying "A state of the art indoor training facility? No, no. We can't let our players get sheltered...."

What Does Bruce Allen Think?

I've got good news and bad news about what Bruce Allen may think about world-class NFL training facilities.

Good news: He's not only in favor, he's already built a $40 million training facility for the Bucs! This opened in 2006 and is dubbed "One Buccaneer Place."

Bad news: The new Bucs facility has everything imaginable ... except an indoor practice field!

I'm going to give Bruce the benefit of the doubt and assume that he proposed an indoor practice field and was shot down by the owner. In any case, the Bucs probably justified skipping the indoor practice field on the basis of the balmy Tampa weather. I get that ... but it does rain a lot in Tampa in September. (6.5 inch average rainfall.) And, honestly, any practices cancelled due to rain, in any month, are a competitive disadvantage in today's NFL.

Here's Bruce in his own words:

“These facilities have evolved since 1971, when the Washington Redskins were the first team to house their entire business and football team under one roof,” said Bruce Allen, Tampa Bay’s general manager.

The Bucs move into their new digs after spending their first 30 years in the same location. “You really can’t compare the two,” Allen said. “This is a Ferrari and we were in a crash car in a demolition derby.”

The old place


One Buccaneer Place (click to enlarge)

Photo tour

Highlights:

Dubbed "One Buccaneer Palace", the Buccaneers' gleaming new team headquarters is the largest facility in the NFL. Equipped with every modern tool to help produce a successful team on the field, the facility is also a major draw for potential free agents.

• Opened: August, 2006
• Footprint: 145,000 square-foot facility on 33 acres
• Practice Fields: Three, full-length grass fields
• Weight Room: 10,000 square feet, 70 types of workout machines
• Locker Room: 7,000 square feet
• Additional Features: Fully-equipped kitchen and dining room, theater-style auditorium, press conference studio, hydrotherapy room

The boardroom and many other touches are a bit over the top (see photo tour), but I see what Allen and the Bucs were going for. This is a "pride in what we do" statement to the team and its staff, and certainly this commitment to the players and team is clear.

Actually I think the Bucs style will help sell this concept to Snyder. I was focused merely on the fundamentals: a big indoor football field with good height and natural light, accompanied by training facilities such as weight rooms, training rooms, and instruction rooms, along with a top-notch AV system. But if Allen wants to appeal to Snyder's ego, he'll include the big boardroom and the fancy frontage and add elements that make the new place a tourist attraction. That way Dan Snyder can feel like a king and can charge lots of Redskins fans to visit his big palace. It won't be expressed quite that way, but I do think that this is where Dan Snyder's whole life is pointing, in his fantasy world, so he might as well get it ... as long as the Redskins players get a world-class training facility in the bargain. Maybe he can try to trump the Jets and the Bucs with all the trappings, and make a fantasy world out of it. Whatever's necessary to get it done right for the players and coaches, and that's where my focus is. For me it's about great practices and and great preparation, every day, regardless of the weather.

As for the Bucs, I'll let their media guide bloviate away.

One Buccaneer Place

They grace the Bay area skyline as twin monuments to the power and passion of
professional football: Raymond James Stadium, “The Crown Jewel of the NFL,” and now its
partner in excellence, One Buccaneer Place, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers new training facility.

Within walking distance of the stadium, the Buccaneers’ new home is already being
touted as the standard by which all future sports facilities will be measured. No effort
was spared in making this the most expansive facility in the NFL, equipped with every modern
amenity and the latest tools of the profession. Opening to rave reviews among league insiders
last summer, it has made Tampa the preferred destination for free agent players, prospective
coaches and administrators.

The new team headquarters is a combination of function, style and space - much, much more
space than the Buccaneers have ever enjoyed. The facility encompasses 145,155 square feet
covering 14.2 acres and includes three practice fields behind the main buildings.

The Buccaneers have used that space to raise the bar in every category of team preparation,
from a 7,000-square-foot locker room to a weight room building that measures more
than 16,000 square feet. Add in a 4,000-square-foot team auditorium, a remarkably-equipped
team dining room and countless other features and you have, hands down, the best facility in
the NFL.

“The new facility gives our players, coaches and staff an unparalleled environment in which
to work,” said Buccaneers Executive Vice President Joel Glazer.

Stylistically, the signature of the new facility is its spectacular entrance, which is adorned with
the world’s largest football. The sleek steel-and-glass construct is five stories tall, point to
point, and angles against the main building as if it were on a tee, ready to start the game.
The two-story main building stretches away to both sides of the football, fronted by appealing
walls of glass that call to mind the most notable exterior feature of Raymond James Stadium.
Inside, the building is state-of-the-art in every way, from the rehabilitation pools in the training
room to fully-integrated video equipment in every meeting room and coach’s office.

It is, simply, the ideal place to build a championship football team.

“We were already playing in the NFL’s best stadium and working for owners who are
completely dedicated to winning,” said Head Coach Jon Gruden. “Now we are working,
practicing and preparing every day in a state-of-the-art facility that has everything we
need. This represents an exciting time to be associated with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.”

Note: The Bucs moved into their new palace in 2006. After finishing 11-5 in 2005, Bucs players rewarded their owner with a 4-12 season in 2006. This goes to show that shiny expensive training facilities by themselves don't win games. Especially when they don't even include an indoor practice field.



Related article: Welcome to ... practice?

This article is worth the read, but here is a takeaway. Cost of several recent NFL training facilities:

• Buccaneers (2006): $40 million ... and no indoor practice field
• Seahawks (2008): $60 million
• Falcons (2001): $12 million
• Rams (2006): $13.6 million
• Ravens (2004): $28 million

Not in the article:

• Jets (2008): $75 million
• Giants (2009): $90 million

Some of these clubs are outliers in the trend of facilities appearing to help spur winning:

Rams: nope
Giants: definitely not
Seahawks: definitely not
Falcons: eventually, but only after changes in coaching regimes / front office
Ravens: hard to tell. They were good and bad before 2004, and have been so since. Inconsistent club.

It would be useful to study the consistently good teams, and see how they handle the facilities beyond the indoor football fields. Colts, Patriots, Packers, Steelers, Eagles. Also compare the Jets and Giants, both of whom spent big, but with only the Jets drawing any ROI in terms of wins. What did they do differently, that might matter to competitiveness of the team?

[NLC1054]

*HEADDESK*

The Redskins are actively looking for a place to move Redskins Park.

Mike Shanahan has said they are going to build an indoor practice facility.

Until then, practice bubble.

If ASF is going to be a broken record, so am I.

---------- Post added July-18th-2011 at 10:51 PM ----------

. Aside from Gibbs, who MIGHT have been too oldschool. (Citation needed about opposition to the practice facility, anybody?), I can't see any other coach we've had saying "A state of the art indoor training facility? No, no. We can't let our players get sheltered...."

Welp

SOURCE

Aug. 13, 2004: The Washington Redskins' afternoon session yesterday, scheduled for 90 minutes, was markedly truncated because of a storm. But Coach Joe Gibbs kept his players on the artificial turf field for several minutes, before lightning appeared, so they could get accustomed to the nasty weather often found playing in the NFC East.

The Redskins have considered constructing a bubble at Redskins Park to avoid the inclement weather. However, Gibbs wouldn't consider a bubble. "Never," Gibbs said yesterday. "I don't like bubbles. You play outside. It's an outdoor game. I want to be in the rain because you have a lot of these adverse weather conditions. I don't think there's any other way to get used to that except to be out in it. You need to be out in the heat, rain, snow, sleet -- the whole deal."

The Redskins received a dose of Seattle weather yesterday afternoon, when they practiced in soggy conditions. A fog hung over Redskins Park, with rain falling on and off and the temperature around 40 degrees. It has rained for nearly a month in Seattle and there's a 20 percent chance of rain Saturday. Coach Joe Gibbs refuses to have the team practice in a bubble, preferring for players to get acclimated to all possible weather. "This is almost the exact weather we're expecting to have on game day," said Gregg Williams, the assistant head coach for defense. "So that is good."

Now, quotes from Mike about the indoor practice facility and bubble...

Shanahan -- who four times now has been forced by inclement weather to move practices off campus because Washington doesn’t have an indoor practice facility -- did say, however, that he and owner Daniel Snyder have discussed the need for a practice bubble, and that he expects that need to be addressed soon.

“We’ve talked about that in detail before,” Shanahan said. “He’s asked me what I need. He’s very aware of my thoughts. Obviously, I don’t have to go into detail, but obviously you want the preparation that you need going into a game.

“We’ll get that resolved in the future,” Shanahan also said. “It’s not perfect right now relative to the places to practice. We’d like it better, but we’ll work on it in the future. … It’s a priority for sure.”

SOURCE

"I can say that for the future that our first plan will be getting a heated field out here," Shanahan said Monday at the complex. "So when we have bad weather, we can practice outside.

"It's always great to practice outside, but you have to have a heated field so you can get traction. You can't get traction on a frozen field."

Next season, Shanahan hopes to avert the problems that poor weather caused the team last week during preparations for Sunday's 33-30 loss to Dallas. Installing a heated field at the facility would be a good first step, Shanahan said.

Eventually, Shanahan said, he is determined to have a practice bubble constructed "so we can not only practice inside, but if we do have the type of snow where you can't practice outside, we can at least get a good practice in. So that'll be done."

Shanahan acknowledged that the inclement weather did adversely affect the team's preparation for the previous game.

"Well, sure," he said. "I think everybody knows that if you don't have a place to practice that it does affect you. But I thought our players handled it as well as you could possibly handle it."

Although it would be ideal to have a bubble and heated field in place to begin practice for the 2011 season, "the one thing I want to make sure we got is the heated field," Shanahan said. "Cause when I was in Denver, that's really all we used, was the heated field.

"Even when it was snowing, you know, we didn't even care. We just stayed on the heated field, and it worked out pretty good.

"The snow would melt, we'd have good traction and we could get used to the conditions. The only time it's bad is if it's really raining or it's snowing so hard that you gotta go inside."

From Bruce Allen...

SOURCE

> Allen said the Redskins are reviewing options that would enable them to have an indoor practice facility. He wouldn’t put a timetable on the beginning or completion of the facility’s construction, but he did say that they are looking to build a long-term facility rather than a temporary bubble. Asked if it mean the Redskins are considering moving team headquarters, Allen said, “We’re reviewing our options.”

IT'S IN THE WORKS. Why are people complaining like Dan's not even considering it?