The Grand Debt Ceiling Political Theater Thread

[Larry]

I'd be willing to see a unified thread on the debt ceiling debate/votes/theater. I don't think we have such a thread, now, although I'd have no objections to this being attached to the end of some other thread.

Link.

WASHINGTON -- Republicans are willing to push President Obama to the wall with their budget-slashing bill to raise the debt ceiling because they are convinced he will capitulate on his veto threat and sign it, GOP lawmakers declared Thursday.

The Republican bill, which passed the House Tuesday and which Democrats warn will require even steeper cuts than the unpopular House budget plan that passed in the spring, is starting debate in the Senate.

And although the President has threatened to veto the measure and Senate Democrats say it is unacceptable, the group of Republicans from the House and Senate said it was Democrats' only choice to avoid defaulting on America's debt -- and that Obama would take it to stave off catastrophe.

"This is the only viable plan, right now, that will do that," said Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) "And I will bet you a porterhouse steak that, if it lands on his desk, he'll sign that puppy."

As for Obama's threat to reject the Tea Party-inspired "Cut, Cap and Balance" bill, Coburn suggested they were empty words.

"The president said he'd never take a short-term increase [of the debt limit]," Coburn said. "What did they say yesterday? He'd take a short-term increase. That's how good his veto threat is."

"He's going to do what's necessary to fix this country, and if he gets presented this bill, he's gonna sign it," the Oklahoman declared.

I observe that this article mentions 'the Tea Party-inspired "Cut, Cap and Balance" bill', but does not contain a single specific thing about it. If somebody knows a good place for information about what's supposedly in this bill, I'd certainly like to read it.

All this article has in it is a lot of quotes about the political theater. Which might be important, but I'd like some meat with my popcorn.

[jpyaks3]

Just another example of Bipartisanship from the right wing. If we can't have it our way we will **** over the country.

[mardi gras skin]

I'd be willing to see a unified thread on the debt ceiling debate/votes/theater.

Sounds good.

LATimes: Obama, Boehner discussing $3-trillion debt package (With No Tax Hikes)
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...+-+Politics%29

President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner are continuing to work on a deal that would allow a debt-ceiling increase, even as both sides denied reports Thursday that an agreement was imminent.

According to a Democratic congressional aide, discussions have centered on a version of the so-called grand bargain the two leaders have sought -- minus a key element, new tax revenues, that has been rejected by Republicans. The White House told congressional Democrats about this proposal during the last 24 hours.

The deal would amount to as much as $3 trillion in spending cuts, and would likely be deeply opposed by rank-and-file Democrats who have insisted that any package that includes cutbacks in Medicare and Social Security must also include new tax revenue.

For both sides, a deal of that sort would also amount to a bet on the next election, because the tax cuts enacted under George W. Bush expire at the end of 2012.

[Burgold]

The Repubs may be right. Historically, the Dems are almost always the first to blink. This game of chicken will result in us harmed one way or the other.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

wtf planet do I live on where 70% of the population (or whatever it is) wants tax increases, but that's the position to back down from? Ah good ol' Democrats. Never failing to ***** out.

[techboy]

wtf planet do I live on where 70% of the population (or whatever it is) wants tax increases, but that's the position to back down from? Ah good ol' Democrats. Never failing to ***** out.

Well, to be fair, people say they want a lot of things, but I'd suspect that 70% number might drop a bit if they themselves end up being affected.

A similar experience would be to compare approval ratings of Congress with the rate of re-election of incumbents.

What people say and what people do are often two entirely different things. There's political danger in tax increases, even now.

That's true even if they confine those tax increases to the very top brackets, because the people in those brackets are the ones that finance campaigns (to say nothing of being the status of many politicians themselves).

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I'm not understanding how the 70% number drops with a (slight) tax increase on the upper bracket? Or, really, how that would personally affect people in a way that would change their opinion? I doubt they'd care much about the upper tax bracket donating less to politicians as a result.

[twa]

I'm not understanding how the 70% number drops with a (slight) tax increase on the upper bracket? Or, really, how that would personally affect people in a way that would change their opinion? I doubt they'd care much about the upper tax bracket donating less to politicians as a result.

He is saying the 70% drops rapidly if they have to pay as well

always easy to support taking from someone elses wallet

[Burgold]

Yup, lots of people want nuclear power, but few want a reactor in their back yard. I think there's truth to that complaint. Mind you, I also think it's fair that returning the tax rates to Clinton levels might not be a bad idea during this time of debt.

[PleaseBlitz]

I said in another post that, just like Scott Boras negotiations, nothing is going to happen until just before the deadline. The rest is pure political grandstanding. 48 hours until the deadline, when a deal isnt yet done, I will be reposting that post in every thread.

[Thiebear]

Expect a last second deal that nobody knows about and nobody has read.
It will be passed as an "emergency" with the people seeing it about a week later.

It will be the worst of both sides.

[Hubbs]

Expect a last second deal that nobody knows about and nobody has read.
It will be passed as an "emergency" with the people seeing it about a week later.

It will be the worst of both sides.

Yup. I'm expecting a Frankenbill on August 1st, rushed through the entire process that they're claiming "forces" them to get something done by today. They'll just vote to change the rules.

[sacase]

Here is the thing with taxes. I don't want them, I don't like them. Hell, I think I pay to much as is and that everyone needs to pay. Period. However, I am willing to accept tax increases as long as they are a) Temporary and will go down as the debt levels do down and b) The increased revenue will go towards the debt, not towards new spending. I have not heard anything about making sure new revenue go towards the debt. All I am hearing is yeah we need to reduce spending but we need more revenue also. Sounds like Dems want to raise the limit on the CC, but they want to turn around and purchase that 63 inch 3D LED TV with it.

[Jumbo]

I think sacase's tax proposal exemplifies worthy compromise of personal interest for society's health and success, showing a citizen who certainly wants to pay no more than already paying but willing to take a hit for the greater good as long as reasonable conditions are part of the deal. That's the kind of attitude and approach we so desperately need to be commonplace yet still seems to be absent from our leaders and absent in much of our electorate, the "70% in favor of raising taxes" figures notwithstanding. We can all speculate/project on how polls do or don't support what people really think/would do, but nothing less than increasing tax revenues and cutting all spending should make sense to any sane and balanced thinking. Both will inflict hardship, both will touch almost everyone in ways they don't want, and both are needed.

[Thiebear]

I thought the largest Victory in 70 years proved th people wanted the Gov't to stop spending.
Most people don't are if the top 10% pay more, who cares? They are not me.

I appreciate most of them gainfully employ us and will pay more this year than I will in my entire lifetime.
In tough times though we need to cut (not stop the rate of growth) by 3% across the board.
Everyone over 60k should have to kick in more, and i would base it on cost of living per state. A person in Knoxville making 60k is the same as Tysons corner making 90+k.
It's time to fix this.