2012 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[SkinsTillIDie]

Thought this was highly revealing in Dan Grazino's interview with Mike Shanahan:

Finally, I asked if he thought his team was close enough to contending that he could afford to give away a big trove of draft picks for one player he really wanted.

MIKE SHANAHAN: No. In fact that's why, when we went from 10 to 16 [in last year's draft] and we were able to get that extra second-rounder from Jacksonville, we were able to parlay that where we got [Leonard] Hankerson, we got [Roy] Helu and we got [DeJon] Gomes. So by going from 10 to 16, not only did we get Jarvis Jenkins, but we were able to get those three players. And those are three starters for us.

If we can sign Matt Flynn, it means we'll be able to pull another 2010-esque heist, trade down, accumulate another treasure trove of picks in the 2nd and 3rd round. Which means we'll have plenty of picks to manipulate the draft to our liking, trade up + down for the prospects we regard best and fit our team + system in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds.

AND we can still draft and develop our franchise QB -- it just means we won't have to face another 5-11/6-10 season with someone like Tannehill/Foles/Jones/etc. back there playing like the developmental rookie prospect he invariably is. Seriously, does anyone think our fanbase could tolerate another season like that? Our ownership? Players? Anyone with any emotional involvement with the Redskins whatsoever?

Instead, we can restock and retool our offensive line and wide receiving corps first and foremost, add talent at inside linebacker (Fletcher's replacement) and our secondary.

While getting better quarterback play -- more accurate, better decision maker, less turnover prone -- from a player who is ready to start from Day 1. Hell, if we only had a "game manager" this year at the position, a guy who simply made the right reads, delivered an accurate ball and allowed us to win the turnover battle on a weekly basis, we would've been playing for the division title today. Or had it already wrapped up.

[NewCliche21]

Steve - Griffin has all but declared.

STD (unfortunate acronym!) - I don't trust a word that Shanahan says when it comes to major moves. I'll be shocked if we don't get RGIII.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Steve - Griffin has all but declared.

STD (unfortunate acronym!) - I don't trust a word that Shanahan says when it comes to major moves. I'll be shocked if we don't get RGIII.

You're the first to recognize the STD acronym! Creatively: ST(I)D

I see where you're coming from, but I can't think of a single instance where Shanahan has overtly lied to the press. When he's effusive in his praise, he means it. And when he's less effusive, he's essentially being highly critical. And I think he's right -- we DON'T have the roster or depth where we can afford to lose a bunch of high picks at the moment. Not to say that we don't "sell the farm" for RGIII anyway.

I'm just not sure Shanahan would put himself in the situation where, if RGIII fails, his career (life) as a head coach is over. However, conversely, if we can have another 2010-level draft, we'll be guaranteed to contend in the division for the duration of his tenure, almost regardless of who's back there. Really, we were a couple missed kicks in the two Dallas games away from playing for the division title today. With Rex "I can't help but throw an interception every game" Grossman.

If anything, signing Matt Flynn and drafting his favorite non-Luck/RGIII-prospect to groom, means he can hedge his bets. And continue to build a team that sorely needs another good draft or two.

[stevemcqueen1]

Floyd maybe, but doesn't Shanny not like taking receivers early? I like Coples a lot too but he might be a little too light for Haslett. I think he's stated before he likes his DEs over 300lbs.

Coples walks around at about 290. He might have lost a little weight to play DE this year, but as a junior he had to be pretty close to 300. He could get to 300 fairly easily, and look good carrying the weigh because he's such a giant.

He's ready to set foot on an NFL field today though and I wouldn't make him bulk up.

Also, I don't think we're but so rigid with physical types. Remember, Vonnie Holliday was our best DL last season and took snaps at NT despite being around 280. I bet if Coples is the best player on our board and we can't really trade down, he'd be our pick.

I think trade down would be ideal. I'm a Tannehill fan so I would be very okay with him somewhere in the teens but who knows whether his draft stock is that high or not. My impression of last years draft is that Shanny would have gotten QBs at certain points of the draft but kept getting screwed (Locker at 10, Ponder at 16, Dalton at wherever we picked in the second) and if that is what happened I'm sure he's aggressively dead set at getting his guy this time, whether through reaching or trading up.

Tannehill is too good to not be taken in the first round. He'll be picked by the 20s no doubt. His passing mechanics are too clean, arm is too strong, production in a Pro-style offense is too good, and his footspeed is too good to be taken later than that.

I think he'll go in the teens according to where a QB needy team in that range finds itself drafting. He's a better prospect than Ponder was, and that's pretty much what Ponder's range ended up being.

[Samuels]

Sounds good to me. But I doubt we could snag Tannehill in the second round. He seems like a sure bet to go in the first. I thjink he goes somewhere in the Ponder/Freeman/Flacco range in the teens. His tools are too good to go in the second.

I also think Flynn is going to get a big time contract from someone, so if we want him, we'll have to spend. He's a more appealing option than either Cassel or Kolb were, and both got big contracts.

Ultimately, I would probably trade up to #2 or #3 for RGIII. One of those picks should almost certainly be on sale.

I also like the option of standing pat and taking either Blackmon or Coples or Floyd and taking someone like Wilson/Weeden/Foles/Cousins after the first round.

I also like the option of trading down a bit and taking a CB or maybe even an OT/OG and targeting the lower round QBs.

And finally, I also like the option of trading down into a range to take Tannehill.

Got to hope Cleveland wins today. They're our biggest competition for RGIII. Miami winning seriously weakens their ability to trade up.

Watch RGIII not even declare...

If he does, I feel pretty certain the first three picks in the draft are going to be Luck, Kalil, and RGIII in some order. Both St. Louis and Minnesota will take Kalil if he's there and they choose not to trade down. Minnesota probably hopes St. Louis says hmm, we can trade down with the Redskins and still get Blackmon or Floyd. so that way they'll get Kalil.

Flynn will get paid but I doubt its a absurd number. I'd feel more comfortable signing Flynn and still drafting a QB somewhere in the 1st 3 rounds they like while filling huge holes this team still has all over. We need another draft like last years.

What if we trade for example like the insiders are saying multiple 1st rounders, 2nd rounder and 4th rounder for RG3 and he is a bust?
That could cripple this franchise and cost Shanny his job.

Flynn + #6 pick, 2nd round pick, 4th round pick and 1st round pick next year
vs
the hope the RG3 is a stud.

Thats alot to give up for hope.

[Skins199021]

maybe we can do 2 trade downs in the 1st. Move form 6 to 12-15 and pick up a 2nd, then trade that pick for a pick in the mid 20s of the 1st and pick up another 2nd.

That would be nice

[SkinsTillIDie]

Flynn will get paid but I doubt its a absurd number. I'd feel more comfortable signing Flynn and still drafting a QB somewhere in the 1st 3 rounds they like while filling huge holes this team still has all over. We need another draft like last years.

What if we trade for example like the insiders are saying multiple 1st rounders, 2nd rounder and 4th rounder for RG3 and he is a bust?
That could cripple this franchise and cost Shanny his job.

Flynn + #6 pick, 2nd round pick, 4th round pick and 1st round pick next year
vs
the hope the RG3 is a stud.

Thats alot to give up for hope.

Considering Flynn's contract, however -- how many teams will actually be in the market? A team like Miami is certainly in contention for drafting a QB, but I don't think they'd look to invest $40+ million in a player who they might not be sure is so much better than Matt Moore? Same with Seattle and Tavaris Jackson. Or even Cleveland and Colt McCoy.

Not that Flynn isn't or won't be better than all of these players, but there's unquestionably an uncertainty there -- uncertainty with his true ability (on their teams), uncertainty over the amount of money to invest for a player with such uncertainty.

Though on that same note, I personally don't have any doubt that Matt Flynn would be a huge upgrade over Rex Grossman. And I also don't think that signing Matt Flynn will prevent us from drafting our franchise QB for the future, even if we give Flynn $40 or $50 million (with $20odd million guaranteed)

**I agree with everything you said. There's an enormous part of me that wants/will want up until April for us to make the move for RGIII. It just might not necessarily be the best or smartest move for the franchise

[stevemcqueen1]

STD (unfortunate acronym!) - I don't trust a word that Shanahan says when it comes to major moves. I'll be shocked if we don't get RGIII.

Yeah, and Shanahan isn't out and out saying he wouldn't trade up. Graziano's question was loaded to basically say "would you pull a Mike Ditka for Andrew Luck?"

We can actually move up for RGIII without giving up "a big trove of draft picks" if we're hopping from five or six to two or three.

It'd take a reasonable deal where the amount spent will probably end up being around this year's second round pick.

Who knows, maybe Cleveland shocks us all and passes up RGIII and signs Matt Flynn or something, and RGIII just drops to us. God that'd be nice wouldn't it? Then again, we also have to worry about Miami and Seattle leapfrogging us.

---------- Post added January-1st-2012 at 06:55 PM ----------

Flynn will get paid but I doubt its a absurd number. I'd feel more comfortable signing Flynn and still drafting a QB somewhere in the 1st 3 rounds they like while filling huge holes this team still has all over. We need another draft like last years.

What if we trade for example like the insiders are saying multiple 1st rounders, 2nd rounder and 4th rounder for RG3 and he is a bust?
That could cripple this franchise and cost Shanny his job.

Flynn + #6 pick, 2nd round pick, 4th round pick and 1st round pick next year
vs
the hope the RG3 is a stud.

Thats alot to give up for hope.

Why would it take that much to move up for him? That seems absurdly expensive to go up about three spots. I think offering the 5th or 6th pick, our second rounder, and a mid rounder should be enough to do it. I'd offer the TVC value for the deal and no more.

[Samuels]

Yeah, and Shanahan isn't out and out saying he wouldn't trade up. Graziano's question was loaded to basically say "would you pull a Mike Ditka for Andrew Luck?"

We can actually move up for RGIII without giving up "a big trove of draft picks" if we're hopping from five or six to two or three.

It'd take a reasonable deal where the amount spent will probably end up being around this year's second round pick.

Who knows, maybe Cleveland shocks us all and passes up RGIII and signs Matt Flynn or something, and RGIII just drops to us. God that'd be nice wouldn't it? Then again, we also have to worry about Miami and Seattle leapfrogging us.

---------- Post added January-1st-2012 at 06:55 PM ----------



Why would it take that much to move up for him? That seems absurdly expensive to go up about three spots. I think offering the 5th or 6th pick, our second rounder, and a mid rounder should be enough to do it. I'd offer the TVC value for the deal and no more.

The insiders were saying 2 1st, 2nd and a 4th. I would'nt do it period. I would sign Flynn and if RG3 did fall and its still very possible to #6 i'd take him. The teams behind us would probably think we'd pass on him anyway. I'm not sold Cleveland goes QB in round 1 its something Holmgren does'nt do.

I think we could trade down a few spots and still get Floyd as well.

[stevemcqueen1]

I can't believe three QBs finished with over 5,000 yards passing this season and four finished with 39+ TDs. Drew Brees just completed one of the greatest individual seasons for a QB in NFL history, arguably the greatest volume stat season for a QB, and his was the second best season this year... Aaron Rodgers

People barely even noticed that Tom Brady had one of the best seasons of his storied career and broke Dan Marino's passing yards record too.

Matt Stafford's season would win the MVP in almost any other year before this one. A star has arrived. That he's such a good passer in only his third season is amazing and almost unprecedented. And he didn't even make the Probowl!!!

And I think Aaron Rodgers completed one of the greatest regular seasons a QB has ever had, second only to Brady's 2007 IMO. His passer ratings are unbelievable. If he keeps up this type of pace he'll go down as the most efficient QB in NFL history and have a claim at being the GOAT. His resume has it all. SB win, 15 win season to defend his championship, leading the league in total TDs and efficiency, highest career passer rating in NFL history, spectacular individual plays that make you say Favre who?

Eli Manning's brilliant, career season looks pedestrian in comparison to those other guys.

And also worth mentioning is that Cam Newton just put the wraps on the most spectacular rookie season a QB has ever had IMO. 4,000+ yards passing and 21 TDs against 17 INTs plus 700 yards rushing and 14 rushing TDs. Unbelievable. If he continues developing, how long before he's the best QB in the league? He's like the second coming of Daunte Culpepper. Will Andrew Luck ever be as good? Has there ever been a huge ceiling big gamble QB prospect like him that's started to approach that ceiling so rapidly?

[SkinsTillIDie]

And also worth mentioning is that Cam Newton just put the wraps on the most spectacular rookie season a QB has ever had IMO. 4,000+ yards passing and 21 TDs against 17 INTs plus 700 yards rushing and 14 rushing TDs. Unbelievable. If he continues developing, how long before he's the best QB in the league? He's like the second coming of Daunte Culpepper. Will Andrew Luck ever be as good? Has there ever been a huge ceiling big gamble QB prospect like him that's started to approach that ceiling so rapidly?

There can't be enough praise for Cam Newton. He's the closest thing the NFL has to a Lebron James

[Floodzone004]

Coples walks around at about 290. He might have lost a little weight to play DE this year, but as a junior he had to be pretty close to 300. He could get to 300 fairly easily, and look good carrying the weigh because he's such a giant.

He's ready to set foot on an NFL field today though and I wouldn't make him bulk up.

Also, I don't think we're but so rigid with physical types. Remember, Vonnie Holliday was our best DL last season and took snaps at NT despite being around 280. I bet if Coples is the best player on our board and we can't really trade down, he'd be our pick.

Oh, I didn't know he was at that weight before. In that case, I would be completely fine with Coples. You can never have enough depth on the Dline. Jenkins-Cofield-Coples as the starters with Bowen, Carriker, Gholsten, Scott, and Nield subbing in would be a dominant and young core.

But picking Coples forces us to hope that either Tannehill falls to the 2nd, we trade up to grab him, grab another QB like Foles or Cousins, or the Matt Flynn route.

[stevemcqueen1]

The insiders were saying 2 1st, 2nd and a 4th. I would'nt do it period. I would sign Flynn and if RG3 did fall and its still very possible to #6 i'd take him. The teams behind us would probably think we'd pass on him anyway. I'm not sold Cleveland goes QB in round 1 its something Holmgren does'nt do.

I think we could trade down a few spots and still get Floyd as well.

I don't know about trusting Cleveland not to take a QB in round one. People used to think Mike Shanahan wouldn't draft a QB in round one until he moved up Cutler. When has Mike Holmgren ever needed to take a QB in round one, and had the opportunity to get a great one like RGIII? Circumstances are pretty unique for him this year.

I think someone will trade up for RGIII and I'd be pretty shocked if he made it past the top 3 because he's one of the 3 best players in the class as a QB.

I agree though, two firsts, a second, and a fourth is way too much. That'd probably be paying about 500 or 600 points over TVC value for the pick. Not worth it. We're going to pick 6th and all we probably need to do is leap frog Cleveland at four. We shouldn't have to sell out to do it. If the Rams try and extort that much out of us we can just say f off, we'll deal with Minnesota. I can't see Cleveland trading up to either two or three from four.

But if we did have to pay that much I'd say screw it, we have a ton of QB options in this class and don't have to move up.

---------- Post added January-1st-2012 at 07:42 PM ----------

There can't be enough praise for Cam Newton. He's the closest thing the NFL has to a Lebron James

That's not a compliment to me...

I'd hesitate to compare any NFL player to a basketball player too. Basketball is a game of Superstars where the rules are such to make Superstars thrive for long periods of time.

Football is a brutal, teamcentric sport. The NFL will never have someone quite like LeBron James or Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan.

Who's the best football player in the NFL right now?

That's an impossible question. I'd instinctively say Tom Brady or Peyton Manning but I think you could also easily make a compelling case for Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick, Darrelle Revis, Patrick Willis, Adrian Peterson, Joe Thomas, Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, MJD, Ray Rice, Arian Foster, Steven Jackson, Chris Johnson, DeMarcus Ware, Jared Allen, Terrell Suggs, Troy Polamalu, and many more that I'm forgetting who don't play glamour positions. And next year the list would probably look very different.

Basketball is static and position doesn't matter that much. You know that every year it'll be one of four or five different guys and it's the same guys for a decade.

[Monk4thaHALL]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post...evaney-are-out
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Report: Spagnuolo, Devaney are out

January, 1, 2012
Jan 1 - 8:26 - PM ET

By Mike Sando

ESPN's Chris Mortensen cites a St. Louis Rams team source as saying the organization plans to fire coach Steve Spagnuolo and general manager Billy Devaney.

[derekc4]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post...evaney-are-out
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Panthers should pick up Spagnuolo