need some relationship advice and or opinions. (particularly from women)

[renaissance]

In an effort to keep this a relatively short read i will summon this up with the fact that we had a long talk last night and she admits to not feeling the same way about me but swears its not about wanting another man.

I have said that i believe she is starting to get that (is the grass greener feeling) and she always says i dont know.

she was 18 when we met and she tells me she thinks it may be that she wants to know if she could do it on her own but is afraid that if i found someone else she may realize that she made the biggest mistake of her life.

She says that she wants to live a life were she doesnt have to figure me into every decision that she makes like what to buy at the grocery store or wether or not she can go lay down to bed but also acknowledges that im not controlling she just does this on her own.

To me it sounds like she wants to break up with you and do her own thing but is hesitant because you've been together for so long.

I think oftentimes we think that another guy/girl is the reason someone initiates a breakup. In reality, the person who ended it probably wanted to end it for a while, but waited until they had someone else lined up. If you are the only person she's ever been with and you guys have been together that long, then it's probably scary as hell for her to think that you might not actually be the one.

The only advice I would give if you want to try to save your relationship is to pursue her new interests with her. She may is growing as an individual and doesn't see you fitting into that. If I were you, I would offer to join her in going out, going to the gym, etc, and grow with her.

[Destino]

To me it sounds like she wants to break up with you and do her own thing but is hesitant because you've been together for so long.

I think oftentimes we think that another guy/girl is the reason someone initiates a breakup. In reality, the person who ended it probably wanted to end it for a while, but waited until they had someone else lined up. If you are the only person she's ever been with and you guys have been together that long, then it's probably scary as hell for her to think that you might not actually be the one.

The only advice I would give if you want to try to save your relationship is to pursue her new interests with her. She may is growing as an individual and doesn't see you fitting into that. If I were you, I would offer to join her in going out, going to the gym, etc, and grow with her.

Reading that I'd think we were talking about someone that just discovered her career and has no time for her college boyfriend. As opposed to a mother of two that discovered she likes going clubbing.

[grhqofb5]

Reading that I'd think we were talking about someone that just discovered her career and has no time for her college boyfriend. As opposed to a mother of two that discovered she likes going clubbing.

How dare you bring rational thought into this discussion? Your talk or responsibility, maturity, and loyalty precludes the growth of the human spirit.

Seriously, OP, regardless of what happens, just take the high road and you'll be proud you did the right thing. You strike me as the kind of guy who will. Marriage advice is like trying a pin the tail on a donkey with colitis.

[renaissance]

Reading that I'd think we were talking about someone that just discovered her career and has no time for her college boyfriend. As opposed to a mother of two that discovered she likes going clubbing.

I'm not sure what you're implying, but my advice would be the same for either.

[Destino]

I'm not sure what you're implying, but my advice would be the same for either.

I wasn't implying anything at all. Just pointing out that the post took what appears to be a bad decision and treated it as nuetral and unavoidable.

While we are on the subject, does reacting to insults with apologies increase the odds of staying together? Seems like it would just encourage abuse. Make no mistake about it, telling your long time partner and parent to your children that you'd rather not think of them is a punch to the gut like few other things would be.

[mcsluggo]

Which is funny, because women will go to extremes to track their man. Why is that?

woman are no more "extreme" than men in this area than men... i will say that if anything the opposite is true: our society accept much more intrusive and "controlling" behavior from men than from women.

[kubstix]

Go with your heart man. I went out with this girl for 3-4 years and she started doing the same things. I use to let her hang out with whoever she wanted (even guys). My philosophy is, let woman do whatever they want. If they are going to cheat, they are going to cheat. Why create obstacles for them to cheat when they were going to do it anyways? If a woman is real and loves you, she will go out and have fun and know she is coming home to her man. Anyways, I was becoming suspect about some of the same things you are......turns out my heart was right. I know the feeling you have when you suspect something is up and it's terrible. Just listen to what your heart thinks, you've known her for along time to know things aren't right.

[SWFLSkins]

Try to spice it up, do something completely on whim, like a weekend away or a cruise. You need to invest in your marriage. Have someone clean the house, do the laundry and have a nice dinner made by you for her with babysitters taking the kids elsewhere. Shake it up some. I would say don't go the jealous route or to make her jealous, that always backfires in long relationships. Try something totally new with her. Watch a adult stuff together, visit a sex shop. Women want to feel special and get attention. You give it like no other and I think she'll get the idea that you are indeed a special partner. She is bored, don't let that boredom turn to frustration and then action.

[Kosher Ham]

I have a question or two.
If you are giving her space and time...when do you get yours ? Most would assume that you are watching the children while she is out partying.
How does the 12 year old feel about Mom coming home drunk and going out partying all the time.

I think you might be in a bad spot bro. She loves you surely, but I think your gut may be right.

[redskinss]

I have a question or two.
If you are giving her space and time...when do you get yours ? Most would assume that you are watching the children while she is out partying.
How does the 12 year old feel about Mom coming home drunk and going out partying all the time.

I think you might be in a bad spot bro. She loves you surely, but I think your gut may be right.

quite often were out together and the times were not is because i have to work in the morning.

She works nights and does almost no weekends so she never has to work in the morning.

my daughter is in bed when she gets home so i dont think her being drunk when she gets home is a big problem plus i dont think she drinks enough to get wasted very often.

We had an incident after i started this thread were she was considering having me move out and start dating each other again so that we could get back to that early relationship feeling again.
I told her that i didnt want to go backwards and that i didnt feel like that was appropriate for a married couple so in frustration i took my ring off, handed it to her and told her i was going out for a while.

It must have had a very profound effect because she wouldnt stop texting me and telling me that she doesnt want me to move out and wants to work on our relationship.
the last couple of days have been very good ones( except one incident ) but overall i think we have a good start on healing our marriage.

I would like to thank everybody for there advice it really helps just to talk about it.

[rictus58]

As a couple, if you intend to make it, you need counseling.

[Kosher Ham]

Thanks for the update. Hope it works out for you.

They say absence makes the heart grow fonder or something like that.

I truly believe that if you spend too much time together then you lose different experiences to share. I enjoy that my wife takes her Mother out every weekend. They shop, eat, and just hang out. I get to sit back, relax and enjoy breathing room. I love my lady but if I didn't have my time to play poker with the guys or enjoy a game, it would drive me crazy.

One thing we always talked about is not trying to change each other. I fell in love with her because of the person she is. Your lady changing right now is probably in part because of never having the opportunity to do certain things. You have to remember who you were too, be you.

EDIT: I don't think you taking your ring off was a good idea though. Women respond in those situations. It was like an ultimatum type of thing the way I read it. You are not single buddy, do not pretend like you are. You move out and your relationship is over.

[RiggosMohawk]

redskinss, your update from today kinda follows the post from Destino (#28) that I most agreed with in this thread.

Your reaction to her latest idea about the move-out was the right one. Maybe not the ring, maybe not you leaving, but the fact that you had enough and wouldnt tolerate it was key.

My wife and I split almost 2 years ago, and (albeit different circumstances) I was the one in your position. I was tolerating actions by my spouse, and not ever saying "enough". Kudos and good luck.

[LadySkinsFan]

during the first 13 years or so of our relationship i was the center of her world, she would kiss me constantly, sit on my lap in bars, get upset if i didnt give her a kiss walking by, etc etc. i knew with every fiber of my sole that she loved me completely and unconditionally.

I would say that the problem began a few years ago when she got a new job, she got a lot of new friends and starting going out more frequently to clubs on friday and saturday night with them.

she was 18 when we met and she tells me she thinks it may be that she wants to know if she could do it on her own but is afraid that if i found someone else she may realize that she made the biggest mistake of her life.

She says that she wants to live a life were she doesnt have to figure me into every decision that she makes like what to buy at the grocery store or wether or not she can go lay down to bed but also acknowledges that im not controlling she just does this on her own.

After years of devoting herself to you and your children, she got a job and found a new side of herself, one that was not defined by being a wife and mother. She likes this new person and is still trying to find out exactly who this new person is. She loves you and knows she has a good person at home, loves her children. But for years, every thought was how to make things good for every one else except her. There may be foods she likes that the rest of the family doesn't. (In my family it's green beans and I love them but certain family members did not. It got so that when out for dinner, if green beans were on the menu, I'd order them because I never bought them.) Does she have other interests besides going out and drinking, going to see bands etc. that she might like, that she might have liked as a young person but never pursued? Do you see where I'm going with this?

The other side of this situation: you are no longer the beneficiary of her undivided attention. Sure it hurts, but you have to think that her giving you total attention was detrimental to your relationship all this time. It's nice to be on the receiving end, she was giving you kisses, hugs spontaneously etc. but were you doing the same for her? So yes, she is making friends, something you encouraged for many years and now she has some friends and is not paying you the same level of attention. That's natural when there are more people in her life. She's also getting some positive feedback from people other than yourself, and it makes her feel good.

The end result is that she is no longer dependent upon her family for her sole view of herself and source of positive feeling. Since this is relatively new to her, she is still finding her way to balance all the people in her life, now.

Counseling would be a good start for you two to learn how to communicate through your life stages. Both of you need to practice good listening skills and how to open up to each other. Then you negotiate how each of you communicate with others too.

Just as one point: just because she is out she may not be giving off any "I'm available" vibes but men will approach women anyway. You wouldn't believe how many men approach me, and continue even after I tell them I'm lesbian, as that seems to spur them on. I have no interest in men in an intimate way, been there and done that when I was trying to be heterosexual and it was fail all around. But men will still tell me that I just haven't met the right man yet, and I'm 60. So please don't think that she is actively looking for someone. It's flattering when some tells you that you are attractive, we all get some positive feelings from that.

So she wants to find out about herself, her likes/dislikes on her own, separate from her identity of wife/mother that she lived from a young age. We go through several of these types of periods throughout our life. It doesn't mean that our basic personality changes. Going through counseling will expose both of you to sides of yourselves that were supressed due to your roles in your early marriage. She may be going up against the patriarchal role definitions and finding that these roles limit herself, but they also limit you if you think about it. So consider that as well. Why let some "system" define who you both are as human beings, when characteristics/attributes are indeed human and not arbitrarily assigned as male/masculine and female/feminine.

You all sound like you are communicating, a good thing! A counselor will be a third party to guide you through this time. And please try to find one who isn't tied to stringent roles for males and females, because then you will lose the humanity.

As a lesbian who has been in relationships where male/female roles aren't intrinsic to the relationship, it's easy to discover who one is. I'm very much a woman but I like tools, woodworking etc. and as a child was usually given dolls and their accoutrement instead of the things I wanted because they weren't for girls. Now that I'm an adult, I can buy what interests me. When I was trying to be heterosexual, I was expected to cook, clean and all those things slotted for women while the man did the lawn, repairs and those things slotted for men. How much better to have each do the things they like, for the things they don't like, they alternate or make some arrangements. That's what I mean by humanity.

Good luck to you, I think you will be fine and who knows, your marriage may get stronger!

[Bubble Screen]

If you're having girl problems I feel bad for you son, I've got 99 problems but a ***** ain't one.