Romney/Ryan Lose 2012 Election Thread

[Hubbs]

I think that if you read my new thread about BIC pens for women, you'll see what I mean.

Erm... no, having read it, I can't say that I see how the people who don't buy a product because it's based on idiotic branding are "screwed", nor do I see how the people who might think the branding of a product is dumb but like the product itself for other reasons and decide with their own free will that they'd like to own said product are "screwed".

---------- Post added August-30th-2012 at 01:00 PM ----------

You mean they don't?

I mean certainly ALL of them don't. But MOST view us as what we are; consumers. It's less about business screwing us and more about business trying to sell us stuff. Which they all do. Like the aforementioned "BIC Pens for Women" thing. Like...why can't a pen just be a pen? Was there a severe drought in the lady pen market?

Business exist to sell us stuff, sometimes at all cost, sometimes at the cost of their sanity. That is not the way government works. I don't think LSF is saying business is trying to screw us as much as she's saying business exist to sell us stuff and make money.

First of all, it's a bit difficult for me to accept your premise that she isn't saying that businesses screw people when she's said about a half a dozen times now, verbatim, that businesses screw people.

Second, you're siezing upon a very small part of what she's said - that businesses constantly try to generate profit, while governments don't - and ignoring all of the completely outandish stuff that's come with it. Nobody's even claimed otherwise so far. I'm pretty sure that we can all agree that the federal government isn't generating a profit and hasn't for a damn long time. Now can we please address some of the other things that have been said, like the idea that any business that helps us have a quality of life beyond that of a caveman is an entity that screws everyone?

[visionary]

https://twitter.com/CNNJustin

CNN confirms that Clint Eastwood will be tonight's "mystery guest" at the GOP convention in Tampa.
2:32 PM

[SnyderShrugged]

https://twitter.com/CNNJustin

Does that mean its the "3rd Quarter America" (rather than halftime?)

[Jumbo]

Did the play the video Trump was said to have made for the convention where he "fires" an Obama impersonator (who they say doesn't look like Obama other then he's a short-haired slender black man)?

[JMS]

Wow, um... wow. You've really committed to going down the rabbit hole with this train of thought. It's especially ironic that you've done it by typing on some electronic device (which you don't need for survival) to post on a message board (which you don't need for survival) on the Internet (which you don't need for survival) dedicated to a football team (which you don't need for survival).

Businesses have a great potential for the good. But If I may try to give my feelings upon what LSF has said.... It is not a given businesses do good. Businesses can historically do terrible things in the name of profits. Blaire Mountain Revolt(WV, 1921), Homestead Strike(PA, 1892), Strikes at the Ford Motor corp ( Mi, 1932), Mary Ellen, and Etta Angell Wheeler ( NY 1874)... Not to mention Wall Street Bail Out (NY 2008).

Businesses thus historically are nowhere close to being beyond abuse left to their own devices. The responsible role of government given this reality is to ensure free competition with a regulated even playing field for all to compete. To do otherwise is frankly unAmerican, as that policy has been US policy since the early days of the industrial revolution when they became necessary. It is a reality which was hard learned and due to modern theorists on the right it seems we are destined to have to relearn these lessons.

The PC lets not forget was very much a partnership between government and private industry.
Intel the chip maker most responsible for early semi conductors benefited greatly from government contracts and government R&D. Microsoft the software company most responsible for the PC, never would have been able to unchain itself from IBM without government anti trust cases against IBM.
Also lets not forget without the government there never would have been an internet. As the government pioneered the TCP/IP technology which is the backbone of the internet; as well as stood up the first networks which were combined to create the internet. Government fingerprints are all over both the PC and the Internet.

---------- Post added August-30th-2012 at 03:21 PM ----------

Did the play the video Trump was said to have made for the convention where he "fires" an Obama impersonator (who they say doesn't look like Obama other then he's a short-haired slender black man)?

I heard Trump was going to try to fire somebody and the camera pans to Clint. Clint take out his magnum and shoots Trump in the head; then they cut to commercial.

[Renegade7]

It really shouldn't be close at all with President Obama's pathetic record, however Mitt Romney is one of the worst candidates of all time.

You have an election of one man who doesn't deserve to be re-elected vs one man who shouldn't be elected.

Pathetic record? What is with you guys? What did you expect him to do that didn't get done? Then, on top of that, what did you expect him to get done with the republicans doing everything in their power to block everything he tries to do and then them blame him for not getting anything done? Jobs bill? Cybersecurity?

Can Obama be better, of course. But he's not getting credit for the things he has gotten right and the fact the economy is improving. From the auto industry, manufacturing, and now even home building is starting to rebound. People complain about unemployement, but look at the world right now; dude we have it so good, its not even funny...

[Jumbo]

I heard Trump was going to try to fire somebody and the camera pans to Clint. Clint take out his magnum and shoots Trump in the head.

Dirty Harry takes out Douchey Hairy?

[Hubbs]

JMS, that's not at all what she said. Nobody's disputing the fact that an individual business can do bad things. Of course that can and does happen. Businesses are made up of people, and people do bad things all the time. But what LSF said was pretty specific: If a business generates a profit, it's screwing everyone. And that's just ridiculous.

[Jumbo]

Given the current thread title

FACT CHECK: Ryan ignores parts of his own record

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/...cid=hero_media

WASHINGTON — The Republican National Convention is drawing to a close with some factually slippery statements coming from the stage.

Most prominently, on the eve of presidential nominee Mitt Romney's speech closing the convention Thursday night, running mate Paul Ryan ignored conspicuous parts of his own record on budget cuts, the stimulus and Medicare in his haste to accuse President Barack Obama of taking the economy off the rails.

A closer look at some of Ryan's remarks Wednesday at the GOP convention in Tampa, Fla.:

___

RYAN: Obama "created a bipartisan debt commission. They came back with an urgent report. He thanked them, sent them on their way and then did exactly nothing."

THE FACTS: It's true that Obama hasn't heeded his commission's recommendations, but Ryan's not the best one to complain. He was a member of the commission and voted against its final report.

___

RYAN: "And the biggest, coldest power play of all in Obamacare came at the expense of the elderly. ... So they just took it all away from Medicare. Seven hundred and sixteen billion dollars, funneled out of Medicare by President Obama."

THE FACTS: Ryan's claim ignores the fact that Ryan himself incorporated the same cuts into budgets he steered through the House in the past two years as chairman of its Budget Committee, using the money for deficit reduction. The cuts, used in part to expand health insurance to more people, do not affect Medicare recipients directly but ultimately could by cutting into the profits of hospitals, health insurance plans and other service providers. Even so, the cuts are part of an overhaul that extends the solvency of Medicare's giant trust fund by eight years.

___

RYAN: "The stimulus was a case of political patronage, corporate welfare and cronyism at their worst. You, the working men and women of this country, were cut out of the deal."

THE FACTS: Ryan himself asked for stimulus money shortly after Congress approved the $800 billion plan, known as the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Ryan's pleas to federal agencies included letters to Energy Secretary Steven Chu and Labor Secretary Hilda Solis seeking stimulus grant money for two Wisconsin energy conservation companies.

One of them, the nonprofit Wisconsin Energy Conservation Corp., received $20.3 million from the Energy Department to help homes and businesses improve energy efficiency, according to federal records. That company, he said in his letter, would build "sustainable demand for green jobs." Another eventual recipient, the Energy Center of Wisconsin, received about $365,000.

more at link
___

[MattFancy]

Jumbo, the facts don't matter!!

[JMS]

JMS, that's not at all what she said. Nobody's disputing the fact that an individual business can do bad things. Of course that can and does happen. Businesses are made up of people, and people do bad things all the time. But what LSF said was pretty specific: If a business generates a profit, it's screwing everyone. And that's just ridiculous.

Running a business and running a government are two diametrically opposed activities. One had it's focus on making profit and the other has it's focus on bringing in money to spend on all kinds of services for its citizens. Money comes from taxes and when there is a philosophy to not collect taxes put to continue to spend on the favored items, then there are deficits. This is the modern Republican party.

A business person is not qualified to lead government because they don't know how to do anything but screw people to make a profit.

I did not interpret this the same way you did. I took it to mean she was drawing upon the clear dichotomy between a governments role and a businesses role in society. Further saying being good at one doesn't mean you will be good at the other. I don't think "businesses screw people" was one of her primary points.

I agree with her generally that being good at business doesn't necessarily equate to government. But practically I think business and government especially at the higher levels cross each other somewhat. The ultimate motivations will differ but they are not exclusively so. I think one very important role of government in business as I said was to create that predictable balanced playing fieled. I don't think a former business leader would be handy capped in that role, he/she would greatly benefit from business experience. I think her point was that isn't the only role of government and business leaders would have to overcome some shortcomings in other areas... such as anti trust, labor laws, anti pollution laws, clean water laws, etc... any number of laws which hurt business in the short term, but which society have deemed important interests of the people, in the long term..

[Koolblue13]

Please tell me that everybody saw Bill Nye challenge Akin to a man to man argument about science and that the Reps are ****ing retarded. It's a riot and dead on.

http://dailycurrant.com/2012/08/30/b...lenges-debate/

[The Evil Genius]

Please tell me that everybody saw Bill Nye challenge Akin to a man to man argument about science and that the Reps are ****ing retarded. It's a riot and dead on.

http://dailycurrant.com/2012/08/30/b...lenges-debate/

I think you've been had. A lot of the comments are saying that it's a spoof and that Nye never said it.

Although, to be fair - he would have been 100% in the right to have said it.

[Koolblue13]

I think you've been had. A lot of the comments are saying that it's a spoof and that Nye never said it.

Although, to be fair - he would have been 100% in the right to have said it.

Too bad, because it's right on so many levels.

[deejaydana]

You personify the Republican party as you just make things up completely and claim them to be fact. The date of the following article is Sept. 10th, 2011.

Small-Business Owners Respond to Obama Plan

I take your post as a compliment Hersh, though I wouldn't consider myself a dyed in the wool Republican by any means. "Truth to you are lies to me..."