The Mess going on at Penn state Thread

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I would go to bat for that statement. That's why you'll often find children who grew up being physically abused, now physically abusing their children or wives. That's what they experienced during their learning and growing years.

I'm no doctor or psychologist but it happens enough where there is a correlation.

It's not always the case but a shockingly high percentage follow the same pattern. Abused becomes abuser.

Children who are abused or neglected are more likely to become criminal offenders as adults. A National Institute of Justice study found "that childhood abuse increased the odds of future delinquency and adult criminality overall by 40 percent" (Widom, 1992). Child sexual abuse victims are also at risk of becoming ensnared in this cycle of violence. One expert estimates that forty percent of sexual abusers were sexually abused as children (Vanderbilt, 1992). In addition, victims of child sexual abuse are 27.7 times more likely to be arrested for prostitution as adults than non-victims. (Widom, 1995). Some victims become sexual abusers or prostitutes because they have a difficult time relating to others except on sexual terms.

http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?d...cumentID=32315

That 1992 study is probably outdated at this point. I bet it's over 50 percent.

[Dan T.]

Out of curiosity, have you ever noticed how many teachers and priests and coaches get arrested for serial child sexual abuse? People with this compulsion tend to find themselves in situations where - low and behold - there are a lot of kids. In rare cases is that part of some master sinister plan. These men (and women) are usually not super villains.

I'm trying not to be preachy but some of the discussion on this is devolving into "Don't get into dangerous blue vans" territory. Sandusky does not come across as Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs. And there are sadly an awful lot of men just like him in similar positions.

But Sandusky did have a real predator's knack for culling his victims. Step by step he would pull them in, escalating from checking their reaction to his hand on their leg in the car, to tickling them, and on up the scale. That's one reason why the equipment manager's written intro in Sandusky's "Touched" book is so chilling... it reads, in retrospect, like a first person account of Sandusky initially sizing up a potential victim.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

But Sandusky did have a real predator's knack for culling his victims. Step by step he would pull them in, escalating from checking their reaction to his hand on their leg in the car, to tickling them, and on up the scale. That's one reason why the equipment manager's written intro in Sandusky's "Touched" book is so chilling... it reads, in retrospect, like a first person account of Sandusky initially sizing up a potential victim.

I don't think that is unusual though.

The one thing I do find unusual with Sandusky is not his pattern or approach. It's his recklessness. It seems he was "caught" by adults at least three times. That's odd to me. I'm getting into lame psychological cliches territory here, but doesn't that sound like a man who wanted to be caught?

[TheLongshot]

My wife, BTW, feels for Spannier, whom she met as part of her job and thought was a really nice guy.

[Heisenberg]

Stolen from another forum regarding the Mark Madden thing:

I don't think its true, simply because that's not how these guys operate. Typically.
It's not like molesting young boys is casual conversation, had around a water cooler.

I think the cover up is related to the relationship between PSU and Second Mile. But I think it has money at its core.
I have been reading all of the threads on this board, this week and I am surprised that more questions aren't being asked, regarding Shultze's involvement by the AD and Paterno.
Everybody keeps pointing out that he over-sees the campus police and that's true. What is his official title?
VP of Finance.
What if a good portion of the big money donors were also big supporters and board members of Second Mile?
Shultz, Curly and Joe would stand to lose a lot of financial support, due to some very angry and disgusted donors. Those same donors could easily cost Shultz and Curly their jobs.
Probably even Joe's.


I thought it was an interesting question.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Stolen from another forum regarding the Mark Madden thing:

I don't think its true, simply because that's not how these guys operate. Typically.
It's not like molesting young boys is casual conversation, had around a water cooler.

I think the cover up is related to the relationship between PSU and Second Mile. But I think it has money at its core.
I have been reading all of the threads on this board, this week and I am surprised that more questions aren't being asked, regarding Shultze's involvement by the AD and Paterno.
Everybody keeps pointing out that he over-sees the campus police and that's true. What is his official title?
VP of Finance.
What if a good portion of the big money donors were also big supporters and board members of Second Mile?
Shultz, Curly and Joe would stand to lose a lot of financial support, due to some very angry and disgusted donors. Those same donors could easily cost Shultz and Curly their jobs.
Probably even Joe's.


I thought it was an interesting question.

That guy is probably in the right ballpark. But I doubt it's as financially crude as that.

I keep talking about The Grand Experiment here. And I think Second Mile falls into that in a way. As I mentioned before, Penn State runs on self-righteousness, they can say, "Our assistant coaches are not Charlie Weiss. They don't come here for a year or two as a stepping stone to the next high paying gig. They are Penn State men who coach here for 30 years because they love Penn State and Coach Paterno. And they love molding the next generation of Penn State leaders. When they leave, it is not to go to the NFL. It is to help the most vulnerable chidlren in our state."

How much value does that paragraph have to an institution? I bet at Penn State, it was hundreds of millions.

[Dan T.]

I don't think that is unusual though.

The one thing I do find unusual with Sandusky is not his pattern or approach. It's his recklessness. It seems he was "caught" by adults at least three times. That's odd to me. I'm getting into lame psychological cliches territory here, but doesn't that sound like a man who wanted to be caught?

What it shows is that there was serious predation going on, and not some twisted, misguided extension of helping kids, as you suggested earlier. [You wrote: "What often happens is that the abuser sees the sex as more "help." It becomes a twisted expression of love.]

I can't reconcile one with the other. I guess Sandusky could though. He helped lots of unprivileged kids. He rewarded himself by sexually abusing an unfortunate, carefully chosen, few.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

What it shows is that there was serious predation going on, and not some twisted, misguided extension of helping kids, as you suggested earlier. [You wrote: "What often happens is that the abuser sees the sex as more "help." It becomes a twisted expression of love.]

I can't reconcile one with the other. I guess Sandusky could though. He helped lots of unprivileged kids. He rewarded himself by sexually abusing an unfortunate, carefully chosen, few.

All abusers are predators. On a foundational level, there is no difference between the priest who becomes a mentor to an alter boy over a period of years and the guy who pulls someone into an unmarked van. They are both predators with different techniques.

I don't want you to think I'm trying to excuse Sandusky in any way.

[Spartacus87]

Stay classy Brett.

RT @Ben_Jones88: Wisconsin coach Brett Bielema on Penn State scandal. "Guess it's a good time to be a badger fan" (Via @trenni)

[KokoMike]

All types of parenting produce disturbed children:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/stu...es-dist,26452/

Seriously, there is a lot of bad parenting out there, and there are a lot of disturbed people. A lot of these disturbed people are very smart, and devious. That is how they get away with it for a time.

With Sandusky, I would offer him a plea bargain. Life with the potential for parole if he identifies every person involved in any way. Who knew; who should have known. Every victim. Otherwise, life with no potential for parole, if it goes to trial.

If it goes to trial, this will be bigger than the OJ Simpson trial, or any other trial in modern USA history.

[MonkFan8]

All types of parenting produce disturbed children:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/stu...es-dist,26452/

I hope there was some sarcasm here I didn't pick up on

[Dan T.]

All abusers are predators. On a foundational level, there is no difference between the priest who becomes a mentor to an alter boy over a period of years and the guy who pulls someone into an unmarked van. They are both predators with different techniques.

I don't want you to think I'm trying to excuse Sandusky in any way.

No, I understand. And I do think you've given some insight into the mindset of this type of abuser. But I think it gives too much credit to Sandusky and abusers like him to attribute the abuse to some twisted sense of "helping" and expression of love. I think even they separate the good works they do from the predatory abuse they inflict on their few chosen victims.

[SkinInsite]

I want to know why the police close down the case in 1998 when they knew Sandusky took a shower with a kid and touching the boy.

[DC9]

http://www.thesecondmile.org/ourTeam/bod/bodHono.php

So, Second Mile's real BoD were told in 2002 that an incident had occurred with Sandusky and an underaged boy in the showers at Penn State, but they were never made aware of more serious allegations. Instead, they waited until 2008 to take action when Sandusky told them he was under investigation before removing him from programs involving children.

Now, looking at that who's who list of the Honorary BOD above, is there any wonder that there was such hesitance to make waves, between the power of the Penn State football program and that sort of backing?

Apparently Lou Holtz was a member, too, until recently when he had his name taken off anything Sandusky-related.

---------- Post added November-10th-2011 at 03:45 PM ----------

I don't think that is unusual though.

The one thing I do find unusual with Sandusky is not his pattern or approach. It's his recklessness. It seems he was "caught" by adults at least three times. That's odd to me. I'm getting into lame psychological cliches territory here, but doesn't that sound like a man who wanted to be caught?

Or maybe it was a man who wanted to push the envelope a bit after he lost his coaching job and starting getting board. Maybe he needed to be an exhibitionist.

[FSUSkins24]

Every victim.

I doubt they make him reveal every victim. Some victims don't want to be known. It's viewed as embarrassing. It's not like a serial killer where he has them buried around his house. If these victims haven't come forward, they don't want to for a reason.