The Mess going on at Penn state Thread

[ixcuincle]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...l-court-system

I'm saying the NCAA has no jurisdiction here. The court system does, and the court system is acting. Sandusky will spend the rest of his godforsaken life in prison. Various Penn State officials who had the power to stop Sandusky years earlier but passed the buck higher and higher until it just sort of disappeared? They're facing criminal action as well. That list might well have included Joe Paterno himself, had he not died in January.

As for the school itself, it's about to be hammered with civil lawsuits. How high can you count? Multiply that number by six, stick a dollar figure in front of it, and now you're looking at the amount of money Penn State stands to lose in civil trials.

The death penalty for football? Man, that's nothing. Penn State is about to lose everything it has, and everything it ever will have. I'm telling you, as an institution, Penn State is about to fall and it might never get up. Not if the juries in these civil cases do the right thing and send a message to Penn State -- and to all of us, every last one of us -- that it is never OK to look the other way when a child is being hurt.

[Predicto]

I admit I'm no expert in this area, but I'm not sure that the NCAA has no role to play here. The NCAA is not an official "court" with limited jurisdiction, it is a voluntary association. More like a club. And if it wants to kick Penn State out of the club or otherwise penalize it by limiting its access to club benefits, I think it might be able to do so based on some of the broad language I have seen about institutional control. There is really no question that all of this coverup within the athletic department and the higher ups in the University occurred because of an overriding desire to protect the all-important Football Program.

Moreover, even if Penn State has a colorable argument that the NCAA is overstepping its bounds, do you really think that they are going to do anything about it? Will they file a lawsuit to stop the NCAA from penalizing them? I doubt it, not in this climate.

[Bostic Hog]

While (as I read rule 10.1) I doubt that any violation occurred, it would surprise me 10 years from now if Penn State is still an institution. The lawsuits that can arise from this case alone could break the university financially.

You forget that it is Pennsylvania STATE University -- it is the PREMIER public university in the Commonwealth -- the state government could never let it just go away.

And by the way, where was the Board during this time? Do you think Spanier didn't tell the Board about anything?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I admit I'm no expert in this area, but I'm not sure that the NCAA has no role to play here. The NCAA is not an official "court" with limited jurisdiction, it is a voluntary association. More like a club. And if it wants to kick Penn State out of the club or otherwise penalize it by limiting its access to club benefits, I think it might be able to do so based on some of the broad language I have seen about institutional control. There is really no question that all of this coverup within the athletic department and the higher ups in the University occurred because of an overriding desire to protect the all-important Football Program.

I don't think the cover-up was to protect the football program exactly. Penn State is not Alabama where the university exists to benefit the football team. What PSU has always leveraged is the football team as a means to service the university. Let me put it this way: Penn State did not cover this up so it could compete for a national title. It covered this up so that it could protect its image of piety that keeps the checks rolling in.

The most valuable commodity in Pennsylvania prior to this was Penn State's image as a place that does things "the right way" with Bishop Paterno overseeing all that. That's what they were protecting.

Here's something to ponder: If this had been presented to Nick Saban, he would have personally handed Sandusky over to the State Police and possibly castrated him beforehand. Why? Because what the hell does Nick Saban care about some old fossil?

Penn State felt like it had too much to lose in dropping the hammer on Sandusky. But why?

He wasn't terribly well liked by Paterno.

He hasn't been a coach since '98.

It was because he was St. Jerry. The fact that they could say "Penn State is the kind of place where the greatest defensive coordinator in college football history (and an argument could be made there) leaves the football field to improve the lives of thousands of children around Happy Valley. We are better than everyone else."

I recommend that everyone read "Paterno: By The Book" which was published in '88. It goes into great detail about how The Grand Experiment built the modern PSU.

That's what everyone needs to understand. Penn State did not cover this up to protect the football team or Paterno. They covered it up to protect The Grand Experiment.

State College does not beed an NCAA investigation. It needs an expert on reversing brainwashing.

[bcl05]

News getting worse for JoePa's legacy. Talk about lack of institutional control...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/09/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1

[ixcuincle]

Not in the sense that the NCAA defines it.

Anyway, you hear about the Ravens radio guy / TV broadcaster Gerry Sandusky who keeps getting confused with Jerry Sandusky? Poor guy

[skinsmarydu]

^^^that's gotta suck.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Where PSU is about to get hammered, I suspect, is with the potential violations of The Clery Act.

The Clery Act requires all colleges and universities that participate in federal financial aid programs to keep and disclose information about crime on and near their respective campuses. Compliance is monitored by the United States Department of Education, which can impose civil penalties, up to $27,500 per violation, against institutions for each infraction and can suspend institutions from participating in federal student financial aid programs.

The law is named for Jeanne Clery, a 19-year-old Lehigh University freshman who was raped and murdered in her campus residence hall in 1986. The backlash against unreported crimes on numerous campuses across the country led to the Jeanne Clery Disclosure of Campus Security Policy and Campus Crime Statistics Act. [1] The Clery Act, signed in 1990, was originally known as the Crime Awareness and Campus Security Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clery_Act

You could theoretically put an entire university out of business under this act, but that's simply not going to happen. The biggest fine ever under this act is $350K. It would not surprise me in the least to see this break that record.

[ixcuincle]

Where PSU is about to get hammered, I suspect, is with the potential violations of The Clery Act.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clery_Act

You could theoretically put an entire university out of business under this act, but that's simply not going to happen. The biggest fine ever under this act is $350K. It would not surprise me in the least to see this break that record.

I think that people just want to associate NCAA action with justice. If you don't support the NCAA imposing sanctions, then you MUST not want justice for what Sandusky did.

Penn State will face justice...but not from the NCAA. And they shouldn't face justice from the NCAA. They'll be sued like mad. That's punishment for what happened. Why should their football program be dismantled? The players didn't do anything.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

News getting worse for JoePa's legacy. Talk about lack of institutional control...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/09/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1

I am going to sort of defend Paterno here

Its clear he had a big role in the cover up, no doubt. But its a little convenient for this probe to come out and throw dirt on him instead of looking at the the actions of those that are still alive and working for Penn State.


In saying that, having a statue for that guy is a VERY BAD look right now.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I am going to sort of defend Paterno here

Its clear he had a big role in the cover up, no doubt. But its a little convenient for this probe to come out and throw dirt on him instead of looking at the the actions of those that are still alive and working for Penn State.


In saying that, having a statue for that guy is a VERY BAD look right now.

I keep getting put in this awkward position of sort of defending PSU here, and I don't really want to.

However...this Triponey stuff is the very definition of "old news." She was openly feuding with Paterno and the athletic department for years and it received a ton of coverage in Pennsylvania. She obviously lost the power struggle and more or less went to The Wall Street Journal and annihilated Paterno when the world wanted dirt on him.

There may be some truth here, but if this is the source saying that Paterno ran a dirty program, I'm skeptical.

Repackaging a completely unrelated six year old story as evidence of a cover-up in a completely unrelated area is less than inspiring. Is the revelation here that Paterno completely controlled the football program and wanted no outside interference at all - even from university VPs? Didn't we know this already?

The issue has never been that Paterno hid the Sandusky stuff from the university or wanted to handle it personally. He obviously pushed it to the right people. The question is, why did nothing happen? All that Triponey shows is proof of an insular, secretive culture we already knew existed.

If Freeh is just going to repackage this to score a PR victory over a dead man, then his report is going to reveal nothing useful.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

I keep getting put in this awkward position of sort of defending PSU here, and I don't really want to.

However...this Triponey stuff is the very definition of "old news." She was openly feuding with Paterno and the athletic department for years and it received a ton of coverage in Pennsylvania. She obviously lost the power struggle and more or less went to The Wall Street Journal and annihilated Paterno when the world wanted dirt on him.

There may be some truth here, but if this is the source saying that Paterno ran a dirty program, I'm skeptical.

Repackaging a completely unrelated six year old story as evidence of a cover-up in a completely unrelated area is less than inspiring. Is the revelation here that Paterno completely controlled the football program and wanted no outside interference at all - even from university VPs? Didn't we know this already?

The issue has never been that Paterno hid the Sandusky stuff from the university or wanted to handle it personally. He obviously pushed it to the right people. The question is, why did nothing happen? All that Triponey shows is proof of an insular, secretive culture we already knew existed.

If Freeh is just going to repackage this to score a PR victory over a dead man, then his report is going to reveal nothing useful.

nah, the police and child welfare were the right people. Based on those prior emails, he discouraged that.

and Penn State were not the best program at all. They had a lot of arrests reported in the 90s and the police would take them to Paterno to "sort them out."

there was an article by a former student writer who said as much.

Paterno's hands are very dirty, im just questioning this probe.

[lovetoaster]

Where PSU is about to get hammered, I suspect, is with the potential violations of The Clery Act.

You are exactly right. I actually wrote an article about the Clery Act for work not too long ago and the government has been stepping up enforcement recently. I think there are a few pending cases where there will be significant fines against universities, but I would imagine there will be a sizeable hammer falling on PSU.

[RonArtest15]

I am going to sort of defend Paterno here

Its clear he had a big role in the cover up, no doubt. But its a little convenient for this probe to come out and throw dirt on him instead of looking at the the actions of those that are still alive and working for Penn State.


In saying that, having a statue for that guy is a VERY BAD look right now.

I think a lot of people from the outside looking in figured that a man as powerful as Joe Paterno had to have known what was going on at his facilities. People were saying this from the jump, but there is a certain faction of PSU/Joe Paterno supporters who believed that this man was ignorant to the extent of Sandusky's crimes against children. All of these reports coming to the surface right now pretty much reaffirms what folks initially thought about Paterno from the moment that this case broke. For the "supporters," now what? Everything coming out now pretty much proves that Paterno had his hands in EVERYTHING concerning the football team and Penn State. He should be held accountable because he WAS the most powerful person at the university. Joe Paterno was a control-freak and could have stopped all of this from happening a long time ago.

As I said before, EVERYTHING on the campus with his name or likeness needs to be removed.

*Edit*

Does anyone else think that the people who support Paterno are doing so in almost a cult-like fashion?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Paterno's hands are very dirty, im just questioning this probe.

Oh, Paterno is no innocent. I've known that for years.

His players got in just as much trouble as anyone else's. He just kept it in house better, with the help of the university and local police.

And that culture of cover-up may have had something to do with the Sandusky mess.

I just don't think you can draw a neat, straight line like Freeh is trying to do.

Does this really work?

"Paterno kept a brawl featuring football players out of the local paper. Therefore, Paterno covered up sex abuse by a retired coach."

That seems like a stretch without anything esle.

---------- Post added July-9th-2012 at 10:26 AM ----------

Does anyone else think that the people who support Paterno are doing so in almost a cult-like fashion?

Happy Valley is a cult. That's pretty obvious.

I think Paterno has a lot of the blame here. But I want to stay away from the all-too convenient "Paterno ran the universe; it's all his fault" argument as much as I do "The Old Man was a saint" argument.

Even if Paterno ran the universe in Happy Valley, he still had bosses according to a flow-chart. And all of them knew about this stuff as far back at 1998.

I don't want The Freeh Report to be "It's all Joe's fault. All the living people were just brainwashed by him."

I think this goes up to Spanier. But he is alive and has powerful friends.

---------- Post added July-9th-2012 at 10:33 AM ----------

Here is the funny thing in all this. Penn State football stunk during the majority of this time and there was a loud and clear calling for Paterno to step down.

It's not like they were covering up a program that was going to BCS Bowls every year.

The McQueary story (which he has changed) apparently happened in 2002 (though he said 2001 under oath).

In 2000, they had gone 5-7.
In 2001, they were 5-6.
In 2002, thanks to Larry Johnson, they were 9-4 and lost their bowl game.
In 2003, the really bad times started. They went 3-9.
In 2004, they were 4-7.

Paterno should have been forced out around this time just on merit. So, basicallly, PSU probably broke federal law and covered up a massive sex abuse scandal to protect a football program that had a status lower than Rutgers at the time.

It's all so bizarre.