WSJ/ The Non-Green Jobs Boom

[mcsluggo]

twa...for somebody that is in this industry.. you certainly have a high frequency of logical disconnects.

yes... gas is an improvement for the US over the previous dominant fuels that had been used (much cleaner than coal, more more locally available than refined petro) nobody denies that

Yes the US will continue to use fosil fuels, nobody denies that either.

yes... wind/solar cannot supply the US needs right now (or perhaps ever), but they are a viable option to supply a greater proportion than they normally do, and the greater their usuage, the more development is refined advanced and improved, and the more viable they become. The feed-in-tarif subsidies that solar plants needed just 5 years ago are no longer close to reality. Current solar gen projects are getting WAY less (of course alot of that is because the Chinese are subsidising solar panel manufacturers, and are clearly dumping) BUT... the long story is that these technologies are getting more competitive with greater usuage. and.. that was/is the plan. The cost associated with co-generation isn't completely internalized because there are well established negative externalities. as a result taxing cogen and/or subsidizing other gen formats is the optimal "second best" solution from economically efficiency standpoint.

[twa]

I'm not in or connected to the industry Mcsluggo...I am a bodyman.

Your hopes of advances and improvements to reach parity are just that,and the money spent buying(and subsidizing) dated Chinese tech would be better directed into R&D until advances are made.

[twa]

Gas at record highs and we get this?....Just because a ton of money is poured into a product does not mean that people will buy it,” Paul Chesser

Clearly we need to mandate the purchase for those states that reject fossil fuel exploration

Plant that got $150M in taxpayer money to make Volt batteries furloughs workers

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/08...ts-workers-on/

The 650,000-square-foot, $300 million facility was slated to produce 15,000 batteries per year, while creating hundreds of new jobs. But to date, only 200 workers are employed at the plant by by the South Korean company. Batteries for the Chevy Volts that have been produced have been made by an LG plant in South Korea.
The factory was partly funded by a $150 million grant from the U.S. Department of Energy. LG also received sizeable tax breaks from the local government, saving nearly $50 million in property taxes over 15 years and another $2.5 million annually in business taxes. Landing the factory was hailed as a coup when shovels first hit the ground.
“You are leading the way in showing how manufacturing jobs are coming right back here to the United States of America,” Obama told workers at the ground-breaking ceremony. “Our goal has never been to create a government program, but rather to unleash private-sector growth. And we're seeing results.”
Randy Boileau, a spokesperson for LG Chem in Holland, told FoxNews.com that battery production is expected to pick up once Volt assembly lines in Detroit resume production on Oct. 15. He said the facility has spent the past two years building infrastructure and conducting pre-production “test runs.”


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/08...#ixzz28lhoYGp7

[twa]

Hug a Fracker for keeping you affordably warm

you could be like the Germans and reduced to stealing wood to keep warm
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-878013.html


The problem has been compounded this winter by rising energy costs. The Germany's Renters Association estimates the heating costs will go up 22 percent this winter alone. A side effect is an increasing number of people turning to wood-burning stoves for warmth. Germans bought 400,000 such stoves in 2011, the German magazine FOCUS reported this week. It marks the continuation of a trend: The number of Germans buying heating devices that burn wood and coal has grown steadily since 2005, according to consumer research company GfK Group.

That increase in demand has now also boosted prices for wood, leading many to fuel their fires with theft.

[zoony]

Hopefully we see coal come back a little this year

We need to se an increase in the price of natural gas. It's too cheap

[twa]

coal is gonna be hurting till the EPA backs off,export are the only lifeline
if they allow export of NG and the expanded usages go as planned the NG will rise enough.....hardly worth drilling dry gas right now

[Larry]

NPR: A Mysterious Patch Of Light Shows Up In The North Dakota Dark

As I often find with things from NPR, a nice long article that goes into all kinds of information about the impact that fracking has had on North Dakota.

Contains such information as the fact that ND is currently producing more oil than any state but Texas. That they're producing so much natural gas that 29% of it is simply being burned off, because it isn't economical to collect and ship it.



It starts by pointing at what looks like a huge new city, visible from space, in North Dakota. It looks bigger than Chicago. But it's just oil wells, work lights, and burnoff flares.

[zoony]

This is exactly where capitalism fails in the distribution of limited natural resources.

The incredibly low price of natural gas is ****ing absurd.

[AsburySkinsFan]

This is exactly where capitalism fails in the distribution of limited natural resources.

The incredibly low price of natural gas is ****ing absurd.

Yep, and it is hitting the coal industry incredibly hard, the partisans scream that it is about Obama's EPA stopping new coal plants, but that ignores the fact that existing factories etc have switched from coal to the MUCH cheaper gas.

[Thiebear]

Put solar on Every Post Office and School first. Then expand to every federal building.
Create Jobs in local communites that are green and push the technology and help the grid and bring down the cost for the rest of us.

Burning off the gas seems short sighted at best. It's like burning off oil in Iraq due to infrastructure damage.

[DieselPwr44]

Why in the hell do any of you libs care about coal?

Before the election, everyone of you stated you wanted coal to die.

Well...you are getting your wish.

[twa]

Yep, and it is hitting the coal industry incredibly hard, the partisans scream that it is about Obama's EPA stopping new coal plants, but that ignores the fact that existing factories etc have switched from coal to the MUCH cheaper gas.

coal is the cheapest w/o the new rules...it is not partisan to see

I don't mind the switch, but ya'll are in for some price shocks as a result.

Zoony , the low price will create change,capitalism works (they are drilling gas wells that are unprofitable now for future gain)
it is also driving the return of chemical manufacturing to the US

If Barry would have put any real effort into NG conversion the price would rise a bit.....the country needs a real energy plan

[zoony]

Why in the hell do any of you libs care about coal?

Before the election, everyone of you stated you wanted coal to die.

Well...you are getting your wish.

Since I brought it up, I can only assume you mean me. So go ahead, show me where I said that. Clock is ticking.

Though I do find your stupidity mildly amusing, it's mostly run its course. Like I said, clock is ticking. And yes, I am speaking as a moderator in case you are unsure.

---------- Post added January-20th-2013 at 12:22 PM ----------

Zoony , the low price will create change,capitalism works (they are drilling gas wells that are unprofitable now for future gain)
it is also driving the return of chemical manufacturing to the US

If Barry would have put any real effort into NG conversion the price would rise a bit.....the country needs a real energy plan

It is a limited resource. It should not be this cheap, period. It is mostly an artificial low being driven by market conditions and politics, not to mention what it is doing to other important means of energy production in this country

You think 29% of petroleum is wasted and simply not cared about in its production?

[DieselPwr44]

Since I brought it up, I can only assume you mean me. So go ahead, show me where I said that. Clock is ticking.

Though I do find your stupidity mildly amusing, it's mostly run its course. Like I said, clock is ticking. And yes, I am speaking as a moderator in case you are unsure.

You're gonna do what you want to do anyway...no matter what's said...

You guys(Libs of this forum) said before the election that I was stupid for wanting us to keep coal until alternatives were found.

When I mentioned what will happen to jobs lost...rising electric bill costs etc...none of that mattered, coal needed to go...evil coal needed to go.

Now that NG is cleaner and taking off and pushing coal to the side, it needs to be saved.

Why?

And notice I said guys/libs..nowhere did I mention you by name. I swear..you guys are thin skinned...

[twa]

It is a limited resource. It should not be this cheap, period. It is mostly an artificial low being driven by market conditions and politics, not to mention what it is doing to other important means of energy production in this country.



You think 29% of petroleum is wasted and simply not cared about in its production?

It is highly unlikely to be a practically limited resource from the latest science (abiotic)

it is also a resource that is naturally venting continuously, that said our efforts to prevent waste and limit simply flaring off far outstrip any others

allow export and the price will jump to reflect true value.....clueless leadership and no long term vision (green or otherwise)