Would Kyle Shanahan add spread/zone read plays into the offense?

[darrelgreenie]

No graphs or charts.

Not gonna try to persuade one way or the other.
No implications.

Just 3 Questions: (Imagine we don't know what Cam Newton is doing this year)


QUESTION 1
If Cam Newton was available last year do you think Kyle Shanahan would have wanted to draft him?

QUESTION 2
Do you think Kyle has the desire to incorporate zone-read/spread concepts into his offense like Rob Chudzinski did with Gus Malzahn's playbook for Cam?

2B
Do you think Kyle has the knowledge/flexibility to incorporate many zone-read/spread concepts into his offense?

[amm0409]

Question 1,
I think Kyle and everyone else would of wanted him, but I think we were set on "obtaining more draft pic's." I dont think Cam was the guy we were looking at. So maybe the answer is NO. I think they were sold on Locker.

Question 2,
I think Kyle has his own philosophy, and I question what he would do. I think Rob Chudzinski as well as Greg Roman fit a scheme that helps their QB out.

2B,
I dont know. I would hope so. Maybe Im questioning it now and not giving you a good enough answer.

You posted some good questions, it will be interesting to see what people have to say

[NLC1054]

QUESTION 1
If Cam Newton was available last year do you think Kyle Shanahan would have wanted to draft him?

If he fell, I think he would've considered it. Good size, great arm, athlete. I don't think he would bang the table for him, but I think he would've liked him.

QUESTION 2
Do you think Kyle has the desire to incorporate zone-read/spread concepts into his offense like Rob Chudzinski did with Gus Malzahn's playbook for Cam?

I know you said "pretend we don't know anything about Cam", but Ron Rivera said that 99% of the "he only makes two reads and then he runs" was total bull. If Kyle knew that, I'd say he'd add some stuff here and there as a wrinkle, but he'd expect Cam to be able to run the offense.

2B
Do you think Kyle has the knowledge/flexibility to incorporate many zone-read/spread concepts into his offense?

Knowledge and flexibility are two different things, so it's weird that you lumped them together here. I think Kyle is more than smart enough to understand and be able to get the core concept of zone-read and spread concepts. I think we have some concepts of the more pass oriented spread in our offense, and back in Denver, Mike Shanahan had Cutler take a majority of his snaps from shotgun. We don't have the horses to do that now; if Cam proved he could run those things at this level, I don't think Kyle would have a problem learning them from a flexibility standpoint and from the ability of learning how to run it.

It would be much easier for Kyle Shanahan to adjust and build his offense around what a guy like Cam (or any young quarterback) could do over trying to adjust and build around what Rex and John Beck or some back-up could do.

[chipwhich]

Personally I think the questions are flawed and biased.

Here is the real question you are asking, do you think Kyle Shanahan would build an offensive system around a particular talent, much like they have done with Tebow in Denver.

The simple answer is, it's not his choice, it's his father.

The complicated answer is I think Mike Shanahan would adjust to a QB's talents. Kyle doesn't make that decision. And he hasn't had a talent to build around in McRibb, Grossman, or Beck. Not to mention our receiving corp for the year has been a joke.

[NLC1054]

Personally I think the questions are flawed and biased.

Here is the real question you are asking, do you think Kyle Shanahan would build an offensive system around a particular talent, much like they have done with Tebow in Denver.

The simple answer is, it's not his choice, it's his father.

The complicated answer is I think Mike Shanahan would adjust to a QB's talents. Kyle doesn't make that decision. And he hasn't had a talent to build around in McRibb, Grossman, or Beck. Not to mention our receiving corp for the year has been a joke.

Glad someone said it so I didn't have to.

---------- Post added December-11th-2011 at 04:17 AM ----------

Oddly enough, Kyle Shanahan (for all the crap he gets about not adjusting to the talent he has) HAS adjusted.

What are Rex's strengths? (Besides throwing interceptions and fumbling the ball when a stiff wind blows.)

He's a streaky, rhythm passer who is at his best working the middle of the field. So Kyle has designed a lot of offensive plays to work that part of the field. He doesn't have the arm to throw it outside, so we don't throw a lot of routes outside the numbers. Rex can kill you inside the hashes if you let him. Even when John was in the game, we tried to work those sideline routes and work outside a little more. We try it with Rex and it's a crap shoot about whether it'll work or not. There's like a 40/60 chance that it's picked off or complete. Or he'll get sacked. And when Rex does try to throw it outside, he has a tendency to sit in the pocket FOREVER waiting for the route to come.

That play he got sacked and fumbled on? He had AGES in the pocket. He hitched/bounced like 6 times in the pocket waiting for the sideline route to develop. He's quicker on the draw over the middle, which is where 90% of Rex's good throws are going to come from. So Kyle calls more plays where he works that part of the field.

If he can make an adjustment for a crappy quarterback, imagine what he'd do with a guy who could actually make all the throws.

[The Rook]

I really think last year was going to be about the defense and more draft picks, so I don't think they would have drafted Cam.

As for the other questions, idk. If they draft RG3, I guess we will find out.







The Rook

[darrelgreenie]

Personally I think the questions are flawed and biased.

Here is the real question you are asking, do you think Kyle Shanahan would build an offensive system around a particular talent, much like they have done with Tebow in Denver.

The simple answer is, it's not his choice, it's his father.

The complicated answer is I think Mike Shanahan would adjust to a QB's talents. Kyle doesn't make that decision. And he hasn't had a talent to build around in McRibb, Grossman, or Beck. Not to mention our receiving corp for the year has been a joke.

Huh? I'm not trying to push an agenda, believe me if I wanted to I could.
I'm asking these questions out of straight forward curiosity.
If they're not questions you want to answer then don't.
But my questions aren't flawed nor biased they're completely straight forward.
My questions have no presuppostions nor are they loaded.


I'm asking specifically about zone read/spread concepts, not a generalized ambiguous question like would Kyle/Mike 'adjust to a QBs talents'.

Also, its been well establlished that Kyle is the OC and the OC runs the offense.
Naturally the OC,Kyle, is responsible for the offense's direction not Mike.
Does Mike have input? Sure. Veto authority on gameday? Sure.
But, I'm not asking that question nor do I want to quibble over it.
So if you don't believe Kyle is the OC then vaya con dios but for the sake of the question we can refer to Kyle/Mike as the 'offensive staff' and go from there.

So, I for you I'll rephrase the question thusly:

Do you think this offensive staff would have drafted Cam Newton if availabale?

Do you think the staff would have run the zone-read and spread concepts from college football as major parts of its offense if they drafted Cam?

Do you think this staff would have the knowledge to effectively implement those concepts?

[Lavarleap56]

Q1. Yes Q2. Kyle has some spread concepts already.Q3. Think he has the knowledge .

[Mad Mike]

Equally relevant... Who would win in a fight, mighty mouse or superman?

[darrelgreenie]

I think we have some concepts of the more pass oriented spread in our offense, and back in Denver, Mike Shanahan had Cutler take a majority of his snaps from shotgun.

One point of clarity.
Mike Shanahan did not call plays in Denver that season (2008).
Jeremy Bates called the plays and that season was previously thee most unbalanced pass/run ratio in Mike Shanahan's career as a HC/OC, until here of course.(not to mention that nearly every one of his running backs was hurt that year).

---------- Post added December-11th-2011 at 11:46 AM ----------

Q1. Yes Q2. Kyle has some spread concepts already.Q3. Think he has the knowledge .

I know Kyle's offense has some spread concepts almost all NFL offense have some.
But what about zone-read?
And do you think the zone-read/spread concepts would/could become major parts of the offense like w/ Carolina?

[Darth Tater]

You did not post as an option the answer. We already have a hell of a lot of spread concepts in this offense (one obvious indication is how often we get stuffed on run plays). Of course, spread offense concepts is a wide open word as there are at least 3 basic organically developed versions currently in use (although they do have a lot of cross pollination and thus have some of the same basic plays).

Now as to your more specific questions:
QUESTION 1
If Cam Newton was available last year do you think Kyle Shanahan would have wanted to draft him?
Did he want him? Yes. Would he have drafted him given what he felt was the best strategy given the NFL environment? Don't know.

QUESTION 2
Do you think Kyle has the desire to incorporate zone-read/spread concepts into his offense like Rob Chudzinski did with Gus Malzahn's playbook for Cam?
Well, spread concepts of Gus? Yes. Zone-read? Maybe.

2B
Do you think Kyle has the knowledge/flexibility to incorporate many zone-read/spread concepts into his offense?
Well, given that he already has many zone-read/spread concepts, I'd say that's an affirmative.

[darrelgreenie]

Well, given that he already has many zone-read/spread concepts, I'd say that's an affirmative.

I don't see any zone-read plays. edit: I'm not saying there should be, only responding to you statement above that claims there are 'many'.

There are sprinkles of spread, like with any offense, but I wouldn't see enough to warrant be described as many.(especially in comparison to Carolina.)

Out of curiosity which formations/plays would you consider as coming from a zone-read/spread concept?

[ArmchairRedskin]

Equally relevant... Who would win in a fight, mighty mouse or superman?

Looks like nobody is answering you in here. You should make a thread about it.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I would buy season tickets to watch Rex Grossman run zone read plays.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I would buy season tickets to watch Rex Grossman run zone read plays.

Ha!!!
DarrellGreenie, generally I find your offensive threads insightful with good points. I'm sorry, but you just completely lost me on this one.

Say what you want about Kyle and this offense, it's been in use in different forms for 30 years, and can be super productive today. The concepts are sound, and the design is fine. There is no reason to add tricked out college offensive techniques like the zone read, the option, or other things. Except maybe as a trick play.

The right thing to do is to find adequat NFL caliber QBs and WRs to run any pro-style offense. None of the offenses are really that much different than the next any more. But they all depend on the QB being about to make reads and accurate throws. If you can't do that, then no system will work.