President Barack Obama/Vice-President Joe Biden Re-elected to 2nd Term Thread

[SkinsHokieFan]

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The War on Terror i.e. "war against Al Qaeda" and terrorist organizations where ever they are at.

How long does it now go on for? We have been at it for 11 years and are literally killing people in multiple nations around the globe with absolutley no oversight nor accountability. And now the left is gobbling it up because their guy is in office.

The Yemeni government declared war on Al Qaeda: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-al-Qaeda.html

Yemeni officials tried Awlaki in absentia: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110200458.html

Since when does Yemen=America in terms of the law?

Can we name any other government on Earth right now that is killing people via remote control in multiple countries via secret evidence?

[DjTj]

ahhh, we arent Yemeni are we? Are you holding up the Yemeni legal system as par with ours now?

Since when does Yemen=America in terms of the law?

He was killed in Yemen, and he was a Yemeni citizen. Both country's laws applied to him.

[AsburySkinsFan]

again, why do you feel it has been proven he did those things? Is it because he was accused of them or because it was proven in some manner? If the family member were yours and they were killed over an accusation, that would be OK in your book?

You keep making it sound like Obama woke up one day, pointed at a picture of this guy and said, "Ok, declare him guilty and we'll go kill him", if you seriously believe that's what happened then you need to get off the this message board and start a militia.

---------- Post added September-28th-2012 at 11:11 AM ----------

How long does it now go on for? We have been at it for 11 years and are literally killing people in multiple nations around the globe with absolutley no oversight nor accountability. And now the left is gobbling it up because their guy is in office.

Please remember that I'm not arguing for it, I'm just stating the reason they'll give.

[DjTj]

Can we name any other government on Earth right now that is killing people via remote control in multiple countries via secret evidence?

Can we name any other country on Earth right now that is driving rovers around Mars via remote control? The awesomeness of our technology is tangential to the legal questions, which will be decided in the wrongful death suit here in D.C.

[SnyderShrugged]

You keep making it sound like Obama woke up one day, pointed at a picture of this guy and said, "Ok, declare him guilty and we'll go kill him", if you seriously believe that's what happened then you need to get off the this message board and start a militia.

Nice, rather than continuing a sane discussion you resort to this tripe?

I'll ask it more simply for you so you can understand then.

How do you know he was guilty? (as a pastor, I would have assumed you would be against killing to begin with, especially if the person executed hasnt been proven guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt, you know, just like you and I should be treated no matter what our beliefs are and no matter what we are accused of?)

[Hersh]

Why do you think that? What have you seen that supports this assertion?


Also, when has the Legislative and Executive branch been given province over judicial matters?

Congressional oversight over the intelligence community.

so you don't believe anything the government says or the media reports on?

[SnyderShrugged]

Congressional oversight over the intelligence community.

so you don't believe anything the government says or the media reports on?

When it comes to killing an American citizen, sorry, I would rather folks not be condemned by the media and politicians and will stick with the actual legal system as it was built for.

I recall the Duke Lacrosse players called guilty by the media and many politicians too.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Congressional oversight over the intelligence community.

so you don't believe anything the government says or the media reports on?

After WMD's in Iraq, I think the standard of evidence that needs to be presented to believe the government needs to be very very high. And considering how secretive the Obama Administration has been, we simply are not getting the evidence to make a proper judgement.

In particular when our government is blowing people to smithereens in multiple countries

This is a great, yet long, interview with Greenwald (who himself is a Constitutional Scholar)

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/9/3...nwar_al_awlaki

[AsburySkinsFan]

How do you know he was guilty?

Who does it have to be proven to? Me? Am I the final arbiter of his innocence or guilt? Are you suggesting that his guilt hasn't already been established?

(as a pastor, I would have assumed you would be against killing to begin with, especially if the person executed hasnt been proven guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt, you know, just like you and I should be treated no matter what our beliefs are and no matter what we are accused of?)

You can attack me all you want, it won't change the fact that I have not once argued on behalf of his killing...not once, not in this thread nor any other. I am simply pointing out the flaws in your argument, but you are mistaking my pointing out your argument's flaws as if I were trying to make the case for drone killings which is an assumption that should not be made.

[Hersh]

When it comes to killing an American citizen, sorry, I would rather folks not be condemned by the media and politicians and will stick with the actual legal system as it was built for.

I recall the Duke Lacrosse players called guilty by the media and many politicians too.

He was condemned by the intelligence community.

[SnyderShrugged]

Who does it have to be proven to? Me? Am I the final arbiter of his innocence or guilt? Are you suggesting that his guilt hasn't already been established?


You can attack me all you want, it won't change the fact that I have not once argued on behalf of his killing...not once, not in this thread nor any other. I am simply pointing out the flaws in your argument, but you are mistaking my pointing out your argument's flaws as if I were trying to make the case for drone killings which is an assumption that should not be made.

You havent pointed out any flaws at all and I did not attack you.

The simple fact is, the guy was killed without the due process any other American citizen would have the right to. That includes, you, me, everyone on this board, and even every evil, awful American citizen too.

Do you propose that anything I just said is incorrect and if so, how?

[Hersh]

After WMD's in Iraq, I think the standard of evidence that needs to be presented to believe the government needs to be very very high. And considering how secretive the Obama Administration has been, we simply are not getting the evidence to make a proper judgement.

In particular when our government is blowing people to smithereens in multiple countries

This is a great, yet long, interview with Greenwald (who himself is a Constitutional Scholar)

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/9/3...nwar_al_awlaki

The Iraq war and this aren't remotely on the same level. One administration wanted war with Iraq the moment they took office. Do you really think the Obama administration came into office thinking "we really need to kill an American overseas and do it under the guise of him being a terrorist"?

[SnyderShrugged]

He was condemned by the intelligence community.

The same intelligence committee that gave us WMD's in Iraq, correct?

When did the intelligence community become part of the Judicial branch of government and what empowers them to be judge/jury and executioner rather then just the accusers and compilers of evidence that they actually are?

[AsburySkinsFan]

You havent pointed out any flaws at all and I did not attack you.

The simple fact is, the guy was killed without the due process any other American citizen would have the right to. That includes, you, me, everyone on this board, and even every evil, awful American citizen too.

Do you propose that anything I just said is incorrect and if so, how?

According to the Constitution everyone, citizen or not, has the right to the due process of law, seem to think that due process looks the same for everyone, when the courts have shown that it doesn't. Also, according to your reasoning killing OBL without a trial was just as grievous a crime because he did not have the due process of law that the US government is mandated to afford to any and all who are accused of crimes. But, again you're confusing law enforcement with fighting a war.

---------- Post added September-28th-2012 at 11:29 AM ----------

The same intelligence committee that gave us WMD's in Iraq, correct?

The names of those agencies and committees are the same but they certainly are not the same. You're seriously getting into tinfoil hat territory here.

[Larry]

http://articles.boston.com/2012-09-2...omney-campaign

At every milestone in Obama’s journey to the White House — from the keynote address in Boston that put him on the national radar screen to his inaugural address in 2009 — he held himself out as a healer. Skeptics might note that partisanship and rancor were as old as American democracy itself, but Obama insisted that would change when he was president. The toxic style of politics wasn’t inescapable. Give me the highest office in the land, he assured a rapturous crowd in Ohio two days before the 2008 election, and “we can end it once and for all.”

Millions of voters believed him. They took to heart his vow to transfigure American public life. They looked forward to the uplifting leadership he promised. What they got instead was the most polarizing and divisive presidency in modern times. The civility and goodwill that were to be Obama’s touchstone? “I haven’t fully accomplished that,” he concedes. “Haven’t even come close.”

Ah, I see that the Republican attempt to blame Obama for their actions is still going strong.