Maryland Senate Passes Same Sex Marriage Bill

[mjah]

I guess i'm just not looking at it with the same perspective. Reviewing a couple countries that already do this it would appear to me that if were going to make the change, we make it across the board giving everyone the same rights to everything. Fighting over the 'word' will cost another decade.

Give the word to the less discriminatory "combatant," then, and be done with it.

What do those other countries call it when two gay people marry each other?

[LadySkinsFan]

Who cares what other countries call it. In the good ol' US of A, it's marriage. It was marriage in the Loving v. Virgina decision. Mixed race couples didn't get a "special" word. And the decision says that marriage is a fundamental right.

MARRIAGE

[mjah]

Who cares what other countries call it. In the good ol' US of A, it's marriage. It was marriage in the Loving v. Virgina decision. Mixed race couples didn't get a "special" word. And the decision says that marriage is a fundamental right.

MARRIAGE

I was asking because I suspect that at least some of those other countries call it "marriage."

And if not, then we can drag out the "to hell with the rest of the world; we won't have any of those Metric System civil unions here" card.

[LadySkinsFan]

Asking what other countries call it deflects from the conversation about what it's called in the US of A. I want the attention focused on this country, because that's where this particular battle on civil rights is being waged. I suggest that if you want to know what marriage is called in other countries, you start a thread.

[Jumbo]

Such a thread might also (apparently) be informative to many posters to learn the history of "marriage" (or better, wedlock) beyond the fairy tale that's it's been an inherently or exclusively religious (or more to the point,"Christian") structure. And even under that auspice (when it has been) was always for some holy, sacred, and "beautiful" reason or purpose instead of an important defining of property issues and lineage ( inheritances ), which is/was was a main (often only) status of women in many nations/cultures/times and manners.

BTW, I agree that the ideal form of equality would not involve use of a separate term. The term marriage (or even wife, husband, or mate) is NOT copyrighted by the Christian faith. But particularly in this culture, "civil union" would have less social "weight" than the accepted term "marriage." It comes down to what fights you want to fight and why, but I'd fight to keep the use of the word marriage as the legal term for same sex or not, just as with inter-racial couples. The other strategy may be to "settle" for a"win" going with the "union" status and maybe wait another century or so.

[jobaga]

The whole idea of we will compromise and 'let' same sex couples have 'civil unions' establishes them as second class citizens. Why is your love so much more important than theirs? Where does it stop?

[Thiebear]

Actually i was saying we make everyone the same except for those of us like me that have ruined marriage.
But i'll just chalk this up to me being wrong and just read going forward.

[mjah]

Asking what other countries call it deflects from the conversation about what it's called in the US of A. I want the attention focused on this country, because that's where this particular battle on civil rights is being waged. I suggest that if you want to know what marriage is called in other countries, you start a thread.

Adhering slavishly to the thread title, this conversation is actually about what gay marriage is called in Maryland. I suggest that if you want to know what marriage is called in other states, you start a thread.

Or, we could each allow each other the nonbinding permission to expand our discussion a bit vs. the thread title, when it serves the worthy goal of a better informed discussion of gay marriage. In both of our cases it certainly does. Off the top of my head, here on ES people have briefly invoked other countries' situations within such "US of A" discussions as health care, women's rights, civil rights, etc. There's really no harm done, as it adds knowledge and context to our situation here in the US. If the discussion gets large enough (see Jumbo's post) then certainly it warrants another thread. But a single question serviceable by a single-post answer? Not so much. Though evidently we disagree on that.

I do find it surprising that you'd seriously tell other posters to modify their already-respectable behavior, merely to accommodate your personal beliefs about framing the topic of marriage. That's... interesting.

Back to it... I'm genuinely interested in Thiebear's answer (should he provide it). Not only is it relevant to the discussion, but the answer probably contributes directly to what both you and I are advocating. And he seems to have already done the research, so it's a logical first step to ask him what he knows. Thiebear?

[LadySkinsFan]

Thiebear is specifically talking about the UK. In the UK, a heterosexual couple gets legally married in a civil ceremony that involves signing the civil register in their town or where they marry. It is called civil marriage: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/governme...es/dg_10026937

"Marriage

If you are planning a wedding, you'll need to provide some documents and personal information beforehand. You need to let your council know in advance of your plans. You must also be aware of laws concerning immigration and your residency status.

Marriage certificates and registrations

If you are already married and looking for a copy of your marriage certificate, you can order a copy through the register office or the religious building where your marriage took place.

The General Register Office (GRO) holds a central copy of all registrations for England and Wales. Local register offices also hold their own records of all events registered in their area.

The GRO has responsibility for England and Wales, and there are similar offices for Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Civil marriage ceremonies

You can find more details about civil marriage ceremonies by following the link below.

Enter the details of where you live and you'll be taken to your local council website. It will have information about wedding venues available in your area.

English Heritage also publishes a list of its historic buildings that can be hired for a civil wedding.

Marriage and civil partnership in England

General Register Office for Scotland Opens new window

General Register Office for Northern Ireland Opens new window

Find out about civil marriage ceremonies"

For same sex couples it's called civil partnership. From wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_p...United_Kingdom

"Civil partnerships in the United Kingdom, granted under the Civil Partnership Act 2004, give same-sex couples rights and responsibilities identical to civil marriage.[1] Civil partners are entitled to the same property rights as married opposite-sex couples, the same exemption as married couples on inheritance tax, social security and pension benefits, and also the ability to get parental responsibility for a partner's children,[2] as well as responsibility for reasonable maintenance of one's partner and their children, tenancy rights, full life insurance recognition, next of kin rights in hospitals, and others. There is a formal process for dissolving partnerships akin to divorce."



The only mention of religion in marriage is that there different requirements as to "notice". If married in the Church of England or Wales, one doesn't need to give "notice."

That's it. Marriage in the UK is all about the civil, legalities. Just like it is here.

That doesn't mean that we do that here. Precedent is that it's marriage, like the Loving v. Virginia deemed marriage is a fundamental right. Not civil union or civil partnership, but marriage is the fundamental right.

Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium and Canada call it marriage. I didn't look up the other countries that have legalized same sex marriage what they call it. I believe most of them call it "marriage."

[mjah]

Much obliged for the info. I agree that we should do our own thing based on our values, but I also find the apparent variety in other countries to be interesting.

To me, overall it suggests that marriage is treated as a secular term in a great many places.